AU’s drag setups.. is gutting a legitimate “street” time?

[Casper]

So now’s probably to get a consensus on running lightweight cars at the drags as it’s become the next big thing. This is more for the AU guys (although all opinions are of course welcome) as each series of Falcon seems to work to their own internal levels of acceptance on these sort of things.

Until now it has never really been done with the AU’s in any significant ways (some have, its not new) however, in recent times, it has certainly become a hot topic of interest to many of the more serious drag racers here. Probably more so in the BA cars but, as we all know, what effects any of the E, AU and B series cars will have a flow on effect to all the others.

Before you start typing though, here’s a few thoughts for you all to consider. Over the last 4 years the world of drag racing and AU’s has changed dramatically. Here’s some comparisons to take not of:

4 years ago: An AU running 15’s (I6 or V8) was considered doing well. 14’s were a goal for 99% of AU’s
Now: If you are not running 13’s you are not even close for an AU V8, the top ten starts in the 13.7’s. Even for the AU I6 a 14.9 is considered a starting point for the top ten and that’s always under attack to go lower. Mid 14’s is now the pointy end and 13’s are now the new target times. This is a full 1 second drop from 4 years ago

4 years ago: Street rims, street rubber and street tunes were the normal setups
Now: Race rubber or specialist street tyres are now considered acceptable. Lightweight rims are, for the most part, still not in big numbers but a “run them if you have them” mindset seems to be the standard now.

4 years ago: The best tuning tools were the unichip and the chiptorques. While around the vast majority of AU’s at the drags didn’t have them
Now: Most AU’s that are taken to the drags either already have a custom tuned edit/Unichip/Chiptorque or are certainly going to get one. Its become the standard issue mod no different to exhausts and intakes.

4 years ago: Histalls/performance clutches and modded diffs were a major talking point on any AU
Now: Meh, accepted as just another bolt on mod

4 years ago: All the fastest AU’s (V8 and I6) were manuals. A manual conversion was considered a major performance modification
Now: While the manuals still dominate the V8s the top 4 I6’s are all auto’s. A manual conversion is now no longer considered a drag racing advantage in the I6’s at least.

4 years ago: Pretty much any mod was fair game. Opened and unopened didn’t exist and an ET was an ET, apples with apples, regardless of the level of power and performance mods.
Now: Nothings changed. All mods (except Forced induction/Chemical induction) is still considered fair game. “Run what you ‘brung’ and hope you ‘brung’ enough” still stands true today.


So, is gutting the cars for the track just another step along the drag racing evolutionary path or is it that one step too far? Is it just another mod that need to be done or has it taken the street cars to a point they are no longer street cars?

Feel free to state your opinion (no poll, a Yes/No is too simplistic) but lets keep it civil and reasonable. Remember, there is no right answer, just personal opinions.

To start this I’ll add what I think. I believe that, in essence, we all drive street cars. Therefore a “street trim” has always allowed a measure of comparison. This has been the case for a long time however, as much as I personally don’t like the idea, I think pandora’s box has been opened and the “gutting” idea is here to stay. Its impossible to police, impossible to restrict and impossible to disallow. Its an inevitable progression and, while I choose not to do it at this time, it will affect ¼ mile times enough that those of us who don’t mind chasing ETs will have to look at it as another mod that can be done. If you choose to do it or not is up to the individual however its there, its an advantage and if you take it you reap the rewards. All I ask is that those that do post an ET from a gutted car please disclose it is so.
In summation.. if you want to gut your AU then I personally have no issue with it but disclose it please. Running gutted and claiming full street trim is as bad as running NA and forgetting to mention you had a 50hp shot of NO2 in the system. Its an ET but lets keep comparing apples with apples please.

[TheSneakiness]

I just wish I'd drop some weight in the car. A 16.7 with cam, zorst, cold air, Unichip and LSD definately doesn't sound right to me.

Bearing in mind it is an auto, and has the old style LPG system in it...

[Racecraft]

street trim is exactly that... spare tyre, jack, floor mats and spare change included..Done on street tyres (no slicks imho) with maybe the only exception being a drop in the PSI on the rear.
Drive it there and race it..

[RG]

Run what you brung I say. If you have some decent tyres to throw on the back then go for it but don't claim to hav ethe fastest "street trim" car if the bloody thing was stripped. If there is anything you can do to lower your ET then go for it, just don't talk rubbish and make up things like "fastest red AUII stroked auto sedan with full interior and full exhaust"

[pecker73]

Each to there own.

I am in the 'Run What You Brung' brigade... With the exception of chucking some decent tyres on the back and taking the spare, jack, etc out...

Stuff stripping out the interior, fasting for 4 days before the event and sitting on an upturned milk crate...

If I'm tearing down the 1/4, I'm doing it in style with a comfy seat, some good tunes on the stereo, fluffy dice, and any other 'go faster' trinkets !

Could I be the only one who does a run with the air-con turned on in summer? :

Anyway... My 89 year old Granny tells me I could shave an extra second off my time from the AFF day... IF I LOST 30KG : : :

[philstoj]

If someone wants to strip their car its up to them, thats my opinion, but i prefer to run my car street trim, if im slower than someone who has stripped their car then so be it, my goals are for my car and what i can get out of it.

Now with street trim, im not that anal about it, it doesnt have to be 100% street, so if you remove the spare, the jack and assorted loose sh!t you have lying around in the car doesnt make that much difference...

When they start saying the car is street trim but it has had a diet from 1800 kg to 1500 kg and made to look street trim, and also the hidden power adders....lol, well there will always be a different way to skin a cat in performance industry, too many ego's, lol, ive been around it for a long time.

I have personally run my car without air filter before, but have had spare, jack and 30 odd kg's of rubber mat in the back, id love to run some race tyres but id most likely blow diff and gearbox at same time!!!

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by Racecraft

street trim is exactly that... spare tyre, jack, floor mats and spare change included..Done on street tyres (no slicks imho) with maybe the only exception being a drop in the PSI on the rear.
Drive it there and race it..

I second that.
Exactly how the car sits on your driveway and as you drive it every day is exactly how you race it on the strip, spare tyre, jack, baby seat in the back even lol.. none of this change tyres just for that event even.. I dont even drop the tyre pressure..

[Bluepower]

Originally Posted by stiddy

I second that.
Exactly how the car sits on your driveway and as you drive it every day is exactly how you race it on the strip, spare tyre, jack, baby seat in the back even lol.. none of this change tyres just for that event even.. I dont even drop the tyre pressure..

Good post, im with it 100 percent.

I will race with the crowd. If someone with a blown Boss in street trim chooses to run, i'll run street trim for basis of comparison.

If there is no one in or near my time, i'll race trim the car. If there are 5 cars racing, i'll keep mine with the crowd.

Ive learnt a lot from the LS1 scene, and its where much of this comes from.

[ClassicAU]

Now what about those poor people such as myself, who cant afford to burn up the tyres that the use every day? When i go to the track, i change my rear wheels to "stockies" to save my good tyres. Does this not count me as street trim as i dont drive around with them every day? I would think, if anything, it would be a disadvantage to take off my $280 Pirelli's to run with $25 used no names, as i would have less grip. How does this fare into this topic?

Evan

[stiddy]

Originally Posted by Bluepower

Good post, im with it 100 percent.

I will race with the crowd. If someone with a blown Boss in street trim chooses to run, i'll run street trim for basis of comparison.

If there is no one in or near my time, i'll race trim the car. If there are 5 cars racing, i'll keep mine with the crowd.

Ive learnt a lot from the LS1 scene, and its where much of this comes from.

Sounds fair to me.

[private9]

Originally Posted by Racecraft

street trim is exactly that... spare tyre, jack, floor mats and spare change included..Done on street tyres (no slicks imho) with maybe the only exception being a drop in the PSI on the rear.
Drive it there and race it..

My thoughts exactly.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by Racecraft

street trim is exactly that... spare tyre, jack, floor mats and spare change included..Done on street tyres (no slicks imho) with maybe the only exception being a drop in the PSI on the rear.
Drive it there and race it..

I agree, is driving it home optional?..LOL

These cars that you see people gutting are not drag cars, they are street cars so therefore I dont see the point in stripping it.

If its a dedicated drag car, like the Bluepower utes or the G&D machines then thats different IMO. Thats there purpose, the fact that they have a rego is irrelevant as the owners are doing R&D (AFAIK).

So yeah, street trim IMO is whatever you drive with normally, at the moment I dont have a spare, but thats been through laziness, not because Im trying to go quicker.

[FPV8U]

Originally Posted by Racecraft

street trim is exactly that... spare tyre, jack, floor mats and spare change included..Done on street tyres (no slicks imho) with maybe the only exception being a drop in the PSI on the rear.
Drive it there and race it..

Agreed 100% im not interisted in times that have slicks or have been stripped out, if you have to spend half a day stripping the car for it to run 12's or 11's, then it's not really an 11 or 12 second car in my view.

Drive it there, drive it out, only mod being a drop in tire pressure if you want to.

[stock au]

I've allways considerd a car in street trim can take passengers with them (eg; front
& rear seats) slight things like jack & spare really don't matter i don't think.

[Mark351]

I think we're generally of the view that chucking out the spare and jack (and you should from a safety point of view), and running street-legalish rear tyres is pretty much street. I'm not sure there are many AUs running gutted, and if they are, I'd gamble they're also running a roll cage, rear tubs, fibreglass panels on a tubular front end with a stroked 351W or something...

[DOC]

Isn't it about the time you ran and being honest about the cars set up.

Whats a street trim any way ? the acessories ford put in the car ? take rugers car it's striped and lightened but it is his street driven car so to me its street trim.

next we will have fasted car with a pioneer head unit or such nonsense.

[JC]

I agree with the general run what you brung theory. Pretty sure when I went to Wakefield doing laps, I still had spare and jack in the boot, and full interior - even had AC/DC on the stereo! I would do the same at the drags. Honestly, what does the jack and spare weigh? 20kg max? I'm 105kg, so a bigger benefit to me would be having Falkeen drive my car (from a weight point of view - not sure he could see over the dash though, lol).

Has anyone actually worked out what each 100kg weight reduction is worth. I'd assume it's not linear, more likely to be an exponential line, as the lighter the car, the faster it can accelerate, but at a guess, I reckon the first 100kg could only be worth 0.2, after that it may be worth it, but what can you strip out of the car that can be easily put back in to drive it home, that adds up to the first 100kg, nevermind anything over that?! I know - I'll make mine remote control - there's a 105kg saving upfront!

[MRJUCY]

If people want to do whatever they want to go faster thats fine but street trim is full interior, exhaust (non standard fine just not dumped) & legal tyres etc.

[DOC]

Originally Posted by MRJUCY

If people want to do whatever they want to go faster thats fine but street trim is full interior, exhaust (non standard fine just not dumped) & legal tyres etc.

Would be tough going to find a stock exhaust and ride height on the forums.

[MRJUCY]

Originally Posted by DOC

Would be tough going to find a stock exhaust and ride height on the forums.

Sorry I was thinking drag racer speak not fully sick, dumped as in meaning exhaust not running to the end of the car which is what I was trying to clarify as I figured if I just said full exhaust they'd think I meant stocker.

[Doogstar]

Interesting debate.

Weight reduction isn't a new concept, it's been around for ages, it's just new to Ford NA6's. It is just another mod that costs nothing and anyone can do it.

I ran a 14.2 in street trim on MT streets which are street legal tyres. I drove to the track with them on and back home again. I had full interior (no seats out), no spare or jack but I don't have them in driving everyday anyway. Given that the MT's weigh heaps more and are much taller than my street tyres, but have better grip it probably works out about even. Mylo recently proved that street tyres are up to the task.

Next time out, I decided to try taking the seats I wasn't using out and running on slicks. My carpets and everything else was still in, I ran a 13.8. I never tried to hide what had been done to the car and make no apologies if I broke any unwritten laws. I was chasing ET's on a drag strip, not on the street. I think that as long as you are honest about what trim you are running in, what does it matter? At the end of the day, the fastest in the class, IS the fastest in the class. I was never one for the bullshit titles like "Fastest unopened Auto" or whatever, only now can I say I am the fastest ATM, as I am no.1.

If you feel strongly about running in full street trim, great, run your car like that. This reminds me of the equally pointless opened or unopened debate. If you really go down that path, maybe we should all be running our cars in stock factory spec???

Anyway that's just my opinion. Flame away if you want.

[Casper]

Originally Posted by Doogstar

I was chasing ET's on a drag strip, not on the street. I think that as long as you are honest about what trim you are running in, what does it matter?

Thats sums it up for me I think. It a chase for ET's at the track. People have already stated that as soon as the spare came out and the grippy tyres went on it seems the car fell out of the streeter concept anyhow.. you you simply took that to the next level. Every knew it, you never hid it, thats the way it is now. As for opened/unopened..its an interesting side note when a car runs an ET but effectively irrelevant in the AU's as far as I'm concerned.

It seems that a "street time" needs to be run in full street trim.. thats fair enough too. It just means that probably all the top 10 cars in all the series are not street trim times.. so why not push that advantage even further. If you are going to go "race trim" then go all the way.

[ratter]

It is going to be an argument with no clear winner, but 1 thing to consider if you talk street cars is, very little of the cars raced would pass a RWC without any repairs or any modifications taken off the car. A change in tune for example would render the car unroadworthy unless it has been tested for EPA/ADR complience.
Different air intake would do the same, is the exhaust legal? etc etc.

The amount of weight removed from these cars in a couple hours of work would only equate to possibly a 0.2 saving in et, so many owners could not be bothered going to that extent.


Running slicks and getting rid of excess weight may not be everyones idea of racing and it does not reflect what it's street time would be, but it allows a time that has no excuses for lack of performance by blaming lack of traction or I raced with my subby box etc etc



Opened Vs unopened has been explained pretty well in another thread here
http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...light=unopened


Run what ya brung and most of all have fun

[robbo_yobbo]

A mate of mine had his car complied as a 2 seater through regency with the rear seats removed, and if a car can be legaly registered, then its without argument still a street car wheather its stripped or not.

however, the majority of most modified vehicleswould not pass road compliance, so using gvmt rules to determine if a car is still a street car or not is clearly not the fair call. I personaly couldnt be bothered gutting it out and putting it all back in, so its each to thier own for me.

Having said that, when it gets to the point your sitting on a milk carton, I can safeley say its just that one step too far IMO!

[FS5]

anything to get a good ET i say.but as long as your honest about it,so people can compare the results with how there car is set up.

[Stav]

What is a street car? A street car is a car which goes quick.It has carpets,has its seats and all creature comforts. At the track my goal is to maybe ..just maybe pull 13's as the car is at work. For me this is a goal worthy of saying. If I strip the car and run it down the 1/4 mile I would feel like I am cheating myself. My idea of mods is engine,driveline and suspension. If I go to wsid in weight reduced state I will put it all back in anyway.I need to take the kids to school and a spare for flats. If I have to put all items back in then what is the point of racing the car like that? It will overestimate the cars true normal potenetial.If guys are happy doing that then thats their choice.Me I dont care bout posting the quickest timeslip for others but so that I can be satisfied that I made a significant improvement.

[TCK-098]

A lot of differant opinions here which dont surprise me one bit anyhow im taking my car to the strip next month.
Factory spec state that car will do 16.2 pass now my goal is to get within a second off that and be quite content about it.

[The Monty]

Street time should be car minus spare and jack and subs.
But if I wanted to run good times, Im not going to care if noone likes what I do, I will strip it bare if I wanted to go faster, thats what I use the strip for, to see how fast I can make my car go.
Better take me out of the street time segment, I took out my dash mat, as it was falling on me on the launches, and I drive around with it all the time.

[Bucknaked]

I say remove the Jack and spare wheel. The only purpose they serve is if you get a flat tyre half way down the quarter, you can time yourself to see how long it takes to change the tyre and continue over the finish line. :hihi:

[Racecraft]

I have never taken the tyre or jack out, I've never had anywhere to leave it and I sure as hell am not going to head to Willowbank without them :P I'm like JC, if I was to really care about weight reduction I'd get a jockey to drive it, save a quick 40 kilo's right there..

Removing the jack, spare, running on the red on the fuel gauge defeats the purpose for me. I fill the car up at the same servo everytime I go to the track, and for me it is as good as a guide I can get by taking the car as close to the same every outing.

I brings up an interesting can of worms though, if 100 pounds is 1 tenth I sort of wish I'd taken everything out, run not much petrol and put a feather weight into the drivers seat. :(