Future of Ford and Holden Could be Revealed in Detroit this week

[csv8]

The future of Australian motoring and the homegrown Ford Falcon and Holden Commodore could be revealed in Detroit this week.

Decisions are needed soon on the future replacements of both cars, which are set for a total overhaul within five years. Australia's third maker, Toyota, is already committed to a new - generation Camry that will hit the road later this year. It is also investing more than $300 million in a local engine factory and will have a replacement for its current Camry hybrid in 2012.


But there are more questions than answers on the Falcon and Commodore - which will each cost more than $500 million to renew for sales beyond 2015. Ford's global boss Alan Mulally will face a grilling at the opening of the North American International Motor Show and his counterpart at General Motors, Mark Reuss, will get similar questions.

Both men are well connected to Australia - Mulally has been guiding the blue oval brand for more than five years and has visited Broadmeadows, while Reuss is a former president of GM Holden - and know the critical importance of their local heroes.

Holden is already hinting through its current chief, Mike Devereux, that it sees an ongoing future for a large, rear-wheel drive replacement for the Commodore. He tells Carsguide yesterday that Holden has a solid plan and is tracking towards another year of profitable sales in 2011.

"My goal is to be the best car company in Australia. A very profitable, great car company. I think there are outcomes to being great," says Devereux.

But Mulally rocked the Australian motor industry exactly a year ago - at the opening of last year's Detroit motor show - when he refused to confirm a future for a local Falcon. Since then, two potential paths for the Falcon have emerged - some sort of joint-venture development with the next Mustang in the USA or a twinning with a global Taurus sedan under the worldwide One Ford program.

In either case, Mulally has said repeatedly that there will not be an 'orphan' car in Australia without some sort of global synergy. Ford Australia also faces a major crunch this year on local sales, with the Falcon continuing to lag below sustainable levels and needing a significant boost from the much-updated Territory SUV that hits the road in the first quarter.

[EgoFG]

Originally Posted by csv8

Ford Australia also faces a major crunch this year on local sales, with the Falcon continuing to lag below sustainable levels

I really do not think this is true.

[Resurrection]

Originally Posted by EgoFG

I really do not think this is true.

What are you smoking?

[Gobes32]

Interesting, I personally would like an AWD Falcon but do not agree with the reporting going on here. Especially knowing that a Falcon chassis was sent to the US for engineers to evaluate. Apparently they have a lot of interest in Falcon's Control Blade IRS and it's ability to get the I6T and Miami V8's power down to the ground.......

[Falcon_Crazy]

I was under impression that The Falcon had been profitable? that said, by how much is what they are probably suggstion with the sustainable comment.

As we've seen with T6, Ford Australia has a LOT to offer the rest of the motoring world and when Falcon becomes part of the One Stragey, lets just hope we have a major part to play. GM showed what is possible with the Dunnydore...I'd rather a Falcon with signficant Australian inout that can be appreciated across the globe.

[Joe5619]

It is that time of the year where the media starts writing total BS about Falcon!!!

I did read in one of the articles relating to the Detroit show (dont think it is this one), that Holdens boss said they have to build 105,000 to be sustainable & that they only built 60,000 in 2010.

[dannyhilton]

Originally Posted by Joe5619

It is that time of the year where the media starts writing total BS about Falcon!!!

That time of the year? That time of the day seems more appropriate, given the amount of garbage being thrown out by these so called 'journalists' about the new Falcon.

I'm confident, RWD or not, the new Falcon will be a great car. To simply please a few of us Ford fans doesn't make financial sense, however having an AWD option gives us the best of both worlds really. Still have hopes for a joint Mustang/Lincoln platform though

[GK]

These "journalists" won't rest until they see Ford shut production down in Aus.

GK

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by GK

These "journalists" won't rest until they see Ford shut production down in Aus.

GK

Worked for MMAL.

Falcon is not going FWD/AWD. It will be sharing a basic platform with Mustang. The I6 is dead, but we get to keep our RWD, Australian made Falcon.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by Paxton

Worked for MMAL.

Falcon is not going FWD/AWD. It will be sharing a basic platform with Mustang. The I6 is dead, but we get to keep our RWD, Australian made Falcon.

Good to hear Paxton.

[The Snout]

Originally Posted by csv8

with the Falcon continuing to lag below sustainable levels.

Not really surprised. You don't flog off cheap XR6's and keep claiming the quality over quantity line. Stick a folk in it, she's done. Hello Taurus.

[ivorya]

Holden to stay RWD, it seems from the article.


(Devereux admitted that Holden had evaluated a new General Motors front-drive platform that currently underpins Toyota Camry competitors in Europe and North America -- as well as one that underpins the Chevrolet Impala -- but they have all-but been ruled out.)

http://www.carpoint.com.au/news/2011...e-future-23166

[MickyB]

This doesn't look very promising at all.

[Joe5619]

Originally Posted by MickyB

This doesn't look very promising at all.

That one is not good at all.. Direct comments from global chief saying "I wouldn’t be holding my breath for a rear-wheel drive Falcon,”.. Here's hoping Australia gets some say in design & maybe still built here & AWD??

[One Drone]

http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/f...111-19lel.html

Years of heritage could be axed with the Ford design chief all but confirming the end of the traditional rear-drive Falcon

The rear-wheel drive Australian-designed Ford Falcon is almost certainly dead.

Instead, the next generation Falcon due after 2015 seems certain to be part of a global front and all-wheel drive family of large cars.

Ford Motor Company’s global design chief J Mays all-but confirmed the news long-dreaded by Aussie 'Blue Oval' fans at the Detroit motor show today.

Advertisement: Story continues below “I wouldn’t be holding my breath for a rear-wheel drive Falcon,” Mays told Drive. “I think the chances are we will be all-wheel-drive.”

Mays acknowledged the news would be met with shock and dismay among Australian Ford fans, who celebrated the nameplate’s 50th anniversary in 2010.

“I understand that, but we are pretty confident we can find the right answers. It’s the same things that appeal on a rear-wheel-drive car in Australia that appeal for a rear-wheel-drive car here in the USA.”

Mays said the final decision confirming the shift away from rear-wheel-drive for Falcon would be made within six months.

He would not comment on the implications of the decision for Ford’s Australian manufacturing plant in Melbourne, nor whether V8 engines would be part of the mix.

These topics, plus the future of the popular Falcon ute, will become the centre of intense speculation now that the fundamental Falcon architecture decision seems to have been made.

The future of Falcon and which wheels it drives has been a running story for years, as traditional large rear-wheel drive car sales have dipped dramatically over more than a decade. The Falcon notched up its worst sales in its 50-year history last year.

Rear-wheel-drive has long been a strong sales pitch of the locally made Falcon and its Holden Commodore rival, perceived as superior dynamically, particularly for towing and performance models.

Questions about the Falcon has caused friction between Ford and Australian motoring media. In Detroit today, the company’s global product chief Derrick Kuzak turned his back on two Australian journalists who door-stopped him on the issue.

Minutes later Ford’s global president Alan Mulally was quizzed by Australian media before being taken away by his PR minder.

“We love the Falcon, we have nothing new to address today other than we love serving the Australian customer. We have nothing to report,” he said, before refusing to answer more questions.

“I have never met more relentless people than the Australians [media].”

The Falcon news comes just hours after Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux told Australian journalists in Detroit that he favoured a rear-wheel drive for Australia’s best-selling car, the Commodore, for years to come. A decision is due this year.

Commodore has advantages over Falcon because Holden is GM’s global rear-wheel drive engineering homeroom, and the platform and the car itself have both been exported.

Falcon is currently a global orphan with no export prospects. That’s an anathema for a company committed to a global product development and sales strategy it calls ‘One Ford’.

In Detroit Ford rolled out its most comprehensive ‘One Ford’ strategy yet, unveiling 10 different cars based on its Focus small car platform, including a concept compact SUV called the Vertrek that should eventually replace the ancient Escape in Australia.

Under One Ford, Falcon and the locally-built Territory medium SUV – which currently share the locally-developed “E8” architecture – would align with their US equivalents, the Taurus and Explorer, both of which are already front/all-wheel drive.

“Keep in mind we have already done this with Focus and Fiesta and we have gotten very good response,” design boss Mays said. “When we started this process (One Ford) we had many people internally saying it would not work.

“But guess what? It has. So we feel very confident we are going to be able to deliver a car that everyone around the world will be happy with.”

However, it seems Ford’s iconic sports car, the Mustang, will escape the One Ford mantra, and continue on alone as a rear-wheel-drive vehicle.

Mays is overseeing a design competition between various global Ford studios including Australia to finalise a shape for the One Ford large car.

“The new car will take some cues from the (US) Taurus,” Mays explained. “I think the Australians and Americans have an affinity for a slightly tougher looking car.

“I have always equated many of the cars we have sold in Australia to American muscle cars and I think you want a little bit of that in an Australian sedan as well.”

Mays said the move from rear to AWD platform would not affect that muscle car philosophy: “No, should we decide to do it, I think we will get it right. We are pretty cognoscente of the risks and the positive sides as well.”

The current Falcon is due for a substantial update in 2011, including a new Ecoboost turbocharged four-cylinder engine and an advanced direct injection LPG system for its staple inline six-cylinder 4.0-litre engine.

The Territory also evolves into its second generation, and will add a turbo-diesel V6 engine to its powertrain lineup.

[chevypower]

Yeah because at the Detroit Auto Show, discussing Australia is really relevant, and at the forefront of everyone's minds. More stupid crap from Aussie Motoring Media, reporting news when there isn't any. Nothing has changed.

[phillyc]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Yeah because at the Detroit Auto Show, discussing Australia is really relevant, and at the forefront of everyone's minds. More stupid crap from Aussie Motoring Media, reporting news when there isn't any. Nothing has changed.

Agreed. The comment about 'Not holding your breath waiting for RWD' doesn't necessarily mean it won't be. It just means we haven't made the decision, we won't be making be making an announcement and RWD hasn't been decided upon.

[Raptor]

My speculation.

Lincoln goes global as a premium Ford product.

Our RWD Falcon DNA forms the basis of the global Lincoln, some of which is also shared with Mustang. We produce RHD versions of both for several markets, including our own.

The everyman Falcon is replaced by the Taurus, made in ????

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Raptor

My speculation.

Lincoln goes global as a premium Ford product.

Our RWD Falcon DNA forms the basis of the global Lincoln, some of which is also shared with Mustang. We produce RHD versions of both for several markets, including our own.

The everyman Falcon is replaced by the Taurus, made in ????

That makes sense to me too. When Ford dropped Jag and Volvo, I thought Ford would be aiming to make Lincoln a global brand.

[Brazen]

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.


First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

[fou_bleu]

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.


First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

I do hope you're right - that is a mighty plan!

BUT - no offense to J Mays, would the DESIGN chief for Ford REALLY be in the right position to say "Yea, our plans are..." Methinks not so much.

Also, I'd wait for an announcement from Ford AUSTRALIA - they are the ones that need to be telling us these things - not the international design director!

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by 4RD4TW

I do hope you're right - that is a mighty plan!

BUT - no offense to J Mays, would the DESIGN chief for Ford REALLY be in the right position to say "Yea, our plans are..." Methinks not so much.

Also, I'd wait for an announcement from Ford AUSTRALIA - they are the ones that need to be telling us these things - not the international design director!

Id say he would know, as he is overseeing the design comp from the various Ford studios to design the new Taurus/Falcon twins. Although nothing has been confirmed that it will happen. So who knows? Maybe the Mustang and Falcon will merge.

[Sta Arhidia Mou]

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.

But isn't the Taurus FWD based so even in AWD layout the engine is going to be mounted transversely?

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Sta Arhidia Mou

But isn't the Taurus FWD based so even in AWD layout the engine is going to be mounted transversely?

^^^Spot on.

It will be a FWD based AWD system which will have all the handling characteristics at the limit more or less the same to a FWD car.

AWD based on FWD is not a RWD alternative.

No more V8's
No more utes
No more FPV

Originally Posted by Road_Warrior

It's not up to J Mays whether the Falcon is FWD, RWD or AWD, he is the design director - design is all about the physical shape, size and look of the car. Powertrain and systems are an engineering issue - which would have already been decided if they (Ford Australia, Ford of Europe and Ford NA) are engaged in a design comp for the new global large car.

No, its not up to J Mays which drivetrain will be used, but he would be among the first to know. Whether the engine is transversely or longitudinally mounted makes a massive difference to the cars design and appearance. It makes fundamental changes to the entire cars proportions.

From an enthusiast point of view - AWD Falcon based on Taurus is an absolute disaster, and would spell the end of any real performance versions.

From a more general, pragmatic point of view, I can see this working really well for Ford. We'll hand the performance market on a platter to HSV, but maybe there’s more sales in the lower ends of the range. For the general public, AWD is perceived as a premium layout, and it could help position the Falcon in a more mainstream light than it is currently.

[LeadFoot81]

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.


First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

Ssshhh...you're making too much sense!

[Bucknaked]

Originally Posted by LeadFoot81

Ssshhh...you're making too much sense!

Sounds more like wishful thinking

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by Brazen

There are some fantastic positives to the Falcon going to Taurus.


First of all, Falcon itself will be released as AWD only, with a range of EcoBoost engines, 8 weeks later a FWD Falcon will be launched with different looks and a different name solely for the Australian and New Zealand markets, lets call it 'Telstar'. It will be released powered only by the 2.0l EcoBoost, this new Telstar will be the same as the Falcon except with different front and rear fascias ala the Camry and Aurion. Its job is to protect the image by not associating the name Falcon with FWD, it will also be used to chase the government, fleet and rental buyers. This new Telstar will slaughter the normal petrol Camry's hold on this market, the Camry will turn to more Hybrid sales to offset the massive flow to this new Falcon derivative.

From above, the Falcons premium AWD and EcoBoost drivetrain will hit Holden right in the SS and Calais range, the Falcons superior set-up and image distance from fleet sales (thanks to Telstar) will give Ford the knock-out it needs. AWD and a larger 2.5 tonne towing capacity will also see traditional caravan and boat towing buyers return to the fold, the high tech image afforded by the latest features and gadgets available will see a big influx of import buyers especially lower end Merc, BMW, Lexus customers. FPV versions with V8 and AWD will be hailed as one of the best sports sedans on the planet.

The premium levels of Falcon will be exported globally in both FWD and AWD. Australia and New Zealand will be the only markets where you cant get a FWD Falcon (but you can get a FWD Telstar which is basically a Falcon anyway). Global sales will mean possible diesel and a wagon bodystyle returning.

I don't really agree with this, why would we want a camry competitor when we want cars to enjoy and be proud of i for one would not want a car to flog the camry in sales because it means ford has lost its soul and lost the will to make a great car to just make cars that sell
i do agree with the export idea tho but i think that ford are kidding themselves if they think that the Falcon hasn't got longer legs than just Australia, it would be great as a luxury car or even a large seller int the States or anywhere as it is with a fair bit of refinement at at great price

Ford seems to be the ones that are Killing the Falcon tho, they keep watering it down and watering it down, you want people to aim higher in the model range and when it looks just like the base model like the XR6 is now it doesn't work, they seem to be looking for excuses as to why it won't work.
The glass is half empty approach will never work

[XRFutura]

I still believe the next falcon will be part of the new mustang and larger lincoln premium sedan.

Lincoln needs to compete with the likes of the Cadilac, BMW, Merc, and a Taurus based car simply can't compare, specially when it comes to a hi-po model. If fords intention is to make lincoln a global brand they need a large, powerful, rwd chassis with an engine capable of producing 500hp or more in the hi-po model.

I believe Ford US needs the falcon and are engineering know how more than we actaully do and Alan Mulally knows that.

I think we'll have and awd falcon but sold alongside the rwd version, like we have the territory and dodge does with the charger.

[Brazen]

Originally Posted by XRFutura

I still believe the next falcon will be part of the new mustang and larger lincoln premium sedan.

Lincoln needs to compete with the likes of the Cadilac, BMW, Merc, and a Taurus based car simply can't compare, specially when it comes to a hi-po model. If fords intention is to make lincoln a global brand they need a large, powerful, rwd chassis with an engine capable of producing 500hp or more in the hi-po model.

I believe Ford US needs the falcon and are engineering know how more than we actaully do and Alan Mulally knows that.

I think we'll have and awd falcon but sold alongside the rwd version, like we have the territory and dodge does with the charger.

I personally dont see Lincoln going after the large RWD D class market. Lincoln has explained that it sees smaller cars and SUVs as its premium target. They are even pushing a LWB SUV based on the Taurus for limosine and livery duties to replace the Lincoln Town Car!

If they ever do go large sedan, they can use Taurus AWD as the platform. I also dont see them going global for a long long time, thank Cadillac's abysmal failure in Europe for that.

[JG34JA]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I also dont see them going global for a long long time, thank Cadillac's abysmal failure in Europe for that.

Hi Brazen, always good to read your posts.

However, you surely must remember Taurus' abysmal failure in Australia last time around as well?