How to fix Syd, Melb and Bris congestion

[turbodewd]

Sydney, Melb and Bris are congested. Well why not move the state capitals and virtually all the government employees to new cities thus spreading growth out. Bendigo or Ballarat would be the new Vic capital for example. Maybe Toowoomba for Qld? Newcastle for NSW?

This would be a boon for the town selected and help ease the congestion of these cities. I know the ACT government has about 22,000 employees...surely the NSW govt is much much larger. So moving those 10s of thousands of NSW employees is worth examination. It would also have a multiplying effect on the town's growth, so even more jobs would be created to support the new government departments.

[Mechan1k]

They have started putting commercial industrial hubs up in the Central Coast region for this purpose ... and also to introduce more jobs in the area as well.

The logistics though of moving that many people ... not just government either. There's already that much setup infrastructure it's near impossible.

I am all for starting up new regional hubs for growth ... but doing a major company head office relocation is not easy.

It was massive for Optus to move them (even though it was only to North Ryde) from multiple site into 1 centralised hub ... what has to be taken into account was setting up all the telecomms for such a major move from multiple NOCs into one.

Sydney was poorly planned out in the beginning .... and due to it's massive boom that it had while it was developing .... it was more of a knee-jerk reaction when it came to road and rail ... and just as case of getting it in place for new areas to gain access.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Sydney, Melb and Bris are congested. Well why not move the state capitals and virtually all the government employees to new cities thus spreading growth out. Bendigo or Ballarat would be the new Vic capital for example. Maybe Toowoomba for Qld? Newcastle for NSW?

This would be a boon for the town selected and help ease the congestion of these cities. I know the ACT government has about 22,000 employees...surely the NSW govt is much much larger. So moving those 10s of thousands of NSW employees is worth examination. It would also have a multiplying effect on the town's growth, so even more jobs would be created to support the new government departments.

Will cost a fortune.

How about just make all public servants except the tiny percentage who have direct contact with people who work for a living work night shift, 9pm to 5am so they do not impede the real people who actually make the economy.

And at the same time move the whole of Canberra up to the north of WA between Derby and Wyndam. That might help the mushrooms understand that Australia is a bit bigger than they think and would probably increase focus on some of the areas in defence that have been ignored for the last few decades......

[My32Doors]

Originally Posted by flappist

And at the same time move the whole of Canberra up to the north of WA between Derby and Wyndam. That might help the mushrooms understand that Australia is a bit bigger than they think and would probably increase focus on some of the areas in defence that have been ignored for the last few decades......

No thanks Flappist---means that Can'tberra will be too close lol. But you're right!

[flooded one]

bad idea for toowoomba too be the capital of queensland at this stage. toowoomba needs better infrastructure then what it has. even thou its not as big as brisbane the congestion throught town along the warrego highway in the afternoon is appaling. it really does need a bypass as it would take alot of the "through toowoomba" traffic of the road away from toowoomba and stop people winging about trucks who have no choice but too go through here. It would need another dam. something that isnt popular but too substain a growing population here it needs it. there are other things as well (hospitals etc that would need too built) but over time i think it could work

[Shonky.]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

Sydney, Melb and Bris are congested. Well why not move the state capitals and virtually all the government employees to new cities thus spreading growth out. Bendigo or Ballarat would be the new Vic capital for example. Maybe Toowoomba for Qld? Newcastle for NSW?

This would be a boon for the town selected and help ease the congestion of these cities. I know the ACT government has about 22,000 employees...surely the NSW govt is much much larger. So moving those 10s of thousands of NSW employees is worth examination. It would also have a multiplying effect on the town's growth, so even more jobs would be created to support the new government departments.

sure, let's do it

who's paying?

[tranquilized]

Its a good idea, but not a new one.

Whitlam tried it in the 70's, then the government changed and it never happend...

Originally Posted by wikipedia

Albury-Wodonga was selected as the primary focus of the federal Whitlam government's scheme to arrest the uncontrolled growth of Australia's large coastal cities (Sydney and Melbourne in particular) by encouraging decentralisation. Grand plans were made to turn Albury-Wodonga into a major inland city. Some industries were enticed to move there, and a certain amount of population movement resulted. However, due to the subsequent Fraser Government's repudiation of Labor's decentralisation policies, the plan to populate inland areas and cities other than the State capitals, was abandoned. No other Commonwealth Government since, either conservative or Labor, has made any attempt at repopulating inland areas. Thus the current Albury-Wodonga population of approximately 104,609 residents is far below the 300,000 projected by Whitlam in the 1970s, a figure unlikely to ever be realised.

[flooded one]

I remember years ago they said toowoomba would have a population of 208,000 by 2008. never happened and a good thing it didn't. we where in a very bad drought that seen our water supply litterally dwindling.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Improve public transport....... (more services, and make it cheaper).

When I lived out west a 5 day rail pass to go to work was the same cost as a tank of fuel.... So, I would sacrifice speed, freedom and comfort to save zip. No thanks.

And every day, you would see tens of thousands of cars on the way to work with a single person within the cabin.

Most of the great mega cities of the world seem to get it right, why can't we??

Still waiting for that travel card / pass... what are we up to now?? 1/4 Billion 'invested'?????

Bloody joke.

[Nikked]

-high speed rail between population centers in citeis (ie parramatta into city etc)

-More reliance on Rail Frieght, set up distribution centers where trucks operate from, like here in tamworth we have a Rail/road facility. Goods could be railed up from Syd/newcastle to here then put on trucks.

-'Seachange' insentives, Cheap rent, tax cuts etc

[turbodewd]

I cant see it costing too much. It would be great for spreading out economic growth. It would have to be done gradually obviously because 100s and 1000s of people moving to a new area would need to find housing.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Originally Posted by turbodewd

I cant see it costing too much. It would be great for spreading out economic growth. It would have to be done gradually obviously because 100s and 1000s of people moving to a new area would need to find housing.

Toowoomba couldn't accomodate it with the mining sector already moving in.

[Smoke Pursuit]

Getting all the unroadworthy bombs of the road would be a good start.... As for the public servants let them work from home, won't make a spot of difference to their producitivity because they have none.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DASH GT

Getting all the unroadworthy bombs of the road would be a good start.... As for the public servants let them work from home, won't make a spot of difference to their producitivity because they have none.

Non joke here but Complex Assessment Officers at Centrelink could literally work from home, all they need is an internet connection, a computer and access to the database, all they do is look at claims and assess them.

Here in Victoria, I reckon you could move a lot of business out of the CBD and into places with good rail transport to them like Geelong, Ballarat and Bendigo, I have a lot of travel on the Bendigo line and its great, 1h30min from Southern Cross to Bendigo on the high speed trains, Geelong and Ballarat have the same trains too.

Even the small towns along the lines.

I hate Melbourne, its a pain in the *** to drive around, you spend more time stopped at lights idling, or clutching in/out in first gear. Also the Metro train service is a joke compared to Vline.

[FCleader]

Moving government services from Brisbane to Toowoomba is a bit of a joke, no offense. It's only what, 2 or 3 hours from Brisbane the majority of the state would still be neglected.

What I believe would be doable and help to increase attention on regional towns and cities, is do what Anna Bligh did (for a little while) and have parliament up in Townsville, maybe for 6 months of a year. While moving some major government services up there (call centres etc.).

Although come to think of it, I do remember a story in the Townsville Bulletin about a new government building being planned for 1,000 government workers.

http://www.townsvillebulletin.com.au...9825_news.html

[GTP owner]

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

Has it worked for smokes and booze?

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Yellow_Festiva

Has it worked for smokes and booze?

Yes - increasing the cost of smokes is associated with a measurable decline in smoking rates. The same is true for alcohol, but until a fixed unit-price is introduced, people shift to another type of alcohol that is cheaper.

[SB076]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Yes - increasing the cost of smokes is associated with a measurable decline in smoking rates. The same is true for alcohol, but until a fixed unit-price is introduced, people shift to another type of alcohol that is cheaper.

I would suggest based on my very small sample size of mates who do smoke that they all try to quit for health reasons, they havent tried to quit because of monetrary issues (even though they do have them) I work with a lot of smokers and some are doing it tough (financially) and even though they know if they stop smoking they will get an extra $100+ per week they wont give them up.

Edit: If public transport was free I still wouldnt use it (no way I can get from work to home in a relatively short period of time)

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Yes - increasing the cost of smokes is associated with a measurable decline in smoking rates.

Wont be the cost bringing smokes down, but the increased awareness of health issues and better support for quitting.

Most people i know who smoke, complain about the cost, but still find a way to buy a packet.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Wont be the cost bringing smokes down, but the increased awareness of health issues and better support for quitting.

Most people i know who smoke, complain about the cost, but still find a way to buy a packet.

Increasing health literacy does not work fully. Doctors are amongst the highest consumers of alcohol, and have the lowest fitness, and highest suicide rates in society. This is despite the fact that we know better than anyone else the deleterious effects of ethanol on the human body.
The research on increasing cost means some give up, some reduce consumption, and some will do without other consumables (such as food etc). However the overall effect is less people smoking, and reduced amounts of smoking by those who cannot give up the death sticks.

Sorry to go off topic, but the parallel is fairly accurate. Increase the price and most will reduce driving, some will stop, while some will do without other things in order to continue to drive.

[b2tf]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre.

Lynch mob meeting around the corner from GTP owner's house. All welcome.
BYO sack of doorknobs.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by b2tf

Lynch mob meeting around the corner from GTP owner's house. All welcome.
BYO sack of doorknobs.

Good luck....

I put the suggestion there because building bigger freeways, bigger carpark&network does not work. All it does is encourage people to use the public transport system less, walk less and ride less. People will also live further away from their place of work, and travel greater distances if it is cheap and easy to do so. A classic example is the eastern freeway in victoria when it was first built. It just allowed far more people to travel a greater distance, meaning more people on the road and no change in traffic congestion. If anything it concentrated it evenmore. Making people pay LOTS more for using their car forces them to find alternatives.

[66FAIRLANE]

Make public transport free.

Oh, and good.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by 66FAIRLANE

Make public transport free.

If they were serious about being green etc then yes I agree.

Sure nothing is free so someone has to pay the bills, but I would love to see it trailed for a month or so to see what effect it would have.

But as above, they seem to have enough issues with the current demand/system.

[mik]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Good luck....

I put the suggestion there because building bigger freeways, bigger carpark&network does not work. All it does is encourage people to use the public transport system less, walk less and ride less. People will also live further away from their place of work, and travel greater distances if it is cheap and easy to do so. A classic example is the eastern freeway in victoria when it was first built. It just allowed far more people to travel a greater distance, meaning more people on the road and no change in traffic congestion. If anything it concentrated it evenmore. Making people pay LOTS more for using their car forces them to find alternatives.

yes but the problem is the public transport system is a disaster at peak times , how is overloading it further going to make it better without substantial upgrading, the road network is not to badly laid out in Melbourne , but the bottle necks and over crowding of area`s on either public transport or road system is a problem, neither one on their own is able to cope.
people don`t mind using the rail if it`s not painful, but it sucks that`s the problem.

[GTP owner]

Originally Posted by mik

yes but the problem is the public transport system is a disaster at peak times , how is overloading it further going to make it better without substantial upgrading, the road network is not to badly laid out in Melbourne , but the bottle necks and over crowding of area`s on either public transport or road system is a problem, neither one on their own is able to cope.
people don`t mind using the rail if it`s not painful, but it sucks that`s the problem.

Fully agree there. More would need to be done to kick the public transport system in the bum, starting with deregulating the union control and public-service attitude to working.

Originally Posted by SB076

I would suggest based on my very small sample size of mates who do smoke that they all try to quit for health reasons, they havent tried to quit because of monetrary issues (even though they do have them) I work with a lot of smokers and some are doing it tough (financially) and even though they know if they stop smoking they will get an extra $100+ per week they wont give them up.

Edit: If public transport was free I still wouldnt use it (no way I can get from work to home in a relatively short period of time)

Too small a sample size to be credible. I am quoting from large multi-centre research articles on primary care. (It's been a part of my medical degree).

Originally Posted by Ben73

This has to be the worst idea listed so far.
Bus, rail and airplane companies would then make there fares 10x more expensive.

It would cost $10,000 to travel on a long haul flight.
Plumbers, lecos, builders and anyone else who drives to your house to perform a service would up their fees by 500% so they can afford to stay in business.
Then no one would do anything on days off because it costs to much to drive.

Fear-mongering. Makes for great front page of the local rag, but hardly the gospel for truth. It would however have a drastic impact on solving the congestion, which was the original topic. It would have an impact on the economy in the short term, but time now not spent in a traffic-jam would be better spent being productive, or with your loved ones...You did not suggest a sensible alternative though.

Originally Posted by Polyal

GTP owner is in TAS remember, so no traffic and close to no public transport . Just poking a stick, but it is true, I was shocked when I heard TAS doesnt have a commuter train line running down the guts even though there is commercial train freight IIRC. All about demand I guess.

True. I have a bus that travels from my town into Hobart, but I could not use it for my night shifts and weekends. I would therefore have to relocate closer to the hospital, thereby reducing congenstion......

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

This has to be the worst idea listed so far.
Bus, rail and airplane companies would then make there fares 10x more expensive.

It would cost $10,000 to travel on a long haul flight.
Plumbers, lecos, builders and anyone else who drives to your house to perform a service would up their fees by 500% so they can afford to stay in business.
Then no one would do anything on days off because it costs to much to drive.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by GTP owner

Easy solution is to increase the price of petrol to $10 per litre. You would see most people finding alternative means of transport, including public transport, walking and bike riding. You would also see people either moving closer to their work, or changing work to be closer.
It's not a popular solution, but it would work....

If you wanted to go down this route (not that anyone here would, but lets face it - one of the most effective ways of changing peoples behaviour is to hit the hip pocket) perhaps an inner city congestion charge such as what London has would be more appropriate? Tackle the problem at the source rather than punish everyone in the whole country?

[mik]

i can`t speak for Sydney although i suspect half the problem the town planning is just inadequate for the population and without thinking of the future , much like Melbourne!
the Melbourne central road system at peak times is often in a state of slowness, traffic jams and roadwork alterations, upgrade is good , but it seems to me rather than bite the bullet and plan ahead for population growth of 10/20 years time, they only build for slight improvements which are only barely adequate for the time being.

i reckon the commuter trains are a major let down in the system at peak times, the rail operators seem to buy trains with a few less seats hoping that more people crammed in standing up is a good thing(no wonder no one want`s to use the system), they put on a few more services to an already tight time table that is doomed to fail at some point.

one of the things i can`t understand is why the Melbourne trains only have 6 carriages , surely putting more carriages on would make a huge difference? yes i understand they need to have platforms and infrastructure but give it tens years, add another million people ,if they don`t start thinking bigger it will be worse than it is now,

The last thing is the 177 rail crossings dotted around Melbourne, these are major pain for traffic hold ups, they need to go under ground full stop , railway car parks need to be better , people should be happy to go by rail rather than use it as a last resort, how are they going to pay for fixing it up how it needs to be ..... i don`t know.