DBA 4000 T3 rotor problem ?

[sjako]

Hi Matt,

I Bought some DBA 4000 T3 rotors and hpx pads for au series 2 front and rear from GSL rallysport and I am getting some vibrating/ buzzing when braking at light medium pressure and above. Hubs are clean,it seems under light pedal preasure all is ok it is only when I apply more brake pedal preasure say going down a hill or braking from 80 kmh for a set of lights that I feel the buzzing type of feeling through the brake rotors causes a slight vibration through the dash board as well. Is related to the slots or pads? There is no way that ABS is cutting in. Hubs are perfectly clean What are your thoughts. Hope you dont mind asking as I did purchase from GSL Rallysport .

Thanks

[zdenko]

The same thing has been happening on My Turbo MX-5.
I bought my rotors from race Brakes.
Have DBA 4000 T3, and Carbotech XP10 brake pads, and they have caused vibrations since going in.
Another guy, with same car, same rotors and same pads that I race with is having the same problem.

I have driven other MX-5's with the older 6x6 4000's and Carbotech pads on the track without an issue so I'm blaming the rotors still.
I have contacted Carbotech, but have yet to contact DBA.

I'll gladly go back to the old 6x6 Wiper slot design if I can find them anywhere still in stock.

Just one question sjako, are the QFM HPX pads a ceramic based pad?
I have only heard people complain about these rotors with ceramic based bads. These sought of pads create a transfer layer on the disc, and with this slot design, I cannot get a even layer on the disc.
My Carbotech XP10's, are a Ceramic based race pad.

[sjako]

Thanks fopr the reply, Im not sure if they are ceramic but I have been told the pad material does build up on the rotor. Hopefully Matt may have an answer.

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by sjako

Hi Matt,

I Bought some DBA 4000 T3 rotors and hpx pads for au series 2 front and rear from GSL rallysport and I am getting some vibrating/ buzzing when braking at light medium pressure and above. Hubs are clean,it seems under light pedal preasure all is ok it is only when I apply more brake pedal preasure say going down a hill or braking from 80 kmh for a set of lights that I feel the buzzing type of feeling through the brake rotors causes a slight vibration through the dash board as well. Is related to the slots or pads? There is no way that ABS is cutting in. Hubs are perfectly clean What are your thoughts. Hope you dont mind asking as I did purchase from GSL Rallysport .

Thanks

No mate thats fine. How long have they been in for and has the car done any excessive braking from high speeds in the early stages of fitting them?did you do the bedding in procedure and were they fine at first or has the problem been there from the start? with the old straight slots i would suspect it could be the pads picking up on the slots although with the new T3 design i thought it would be less of an issue but the QFM pads can sometimes be a bit unpredictable and hard to bed in.

Originally Posted by zdenko

The same thing has been happening on My Turbo MX-5.
I bought my rotors from race Brakes.
Have DBA 4000 T3, and Carbotech XP10 brake pads, and they have caused vibrations since going in.
Another guy, with same car, same rotors and same pads that I race with is having the same problem.

I have driven other MX-5's with the older 6x6 4000's and Carbotech pads on the track without an issue so I'm blaming the rotors still.
I have contacted Carbotech, but have yet to contact DBA.

I'll gladly go back to the old 6x6 Wiper slot design if I can find them anywhere still in stock.

Just one question sjako, are the QFM HPX pads a ceramic based pad?
I have only heard people complain about these rotors with ceramic based bads. These sought of pads create a transfer layer on the disc, and with this slot design, I cannot get a even layer on the disc.
My Carbotech XP10's, are a Ceramic based race pad.

I do not know much about the carbotech pads sorry but some pad materials including ceramic will leave deposits on the rotor face causing high spots which also causes shudder but on the other hand some brake pads including Pagid will shudder violently before they bed in and this also happens when we have had sent pads away to get bedded in by a machine.
.

[sjako]

Thanks very much for the reply. It was a reasonably quick process but is getting worse, definetely no high speed braking, bedded them in as per instructions it just seems the longer and harder the brake pedal is applied especially a on a decline, the more intence the buzzing type vibration occurs. When very light braking to a set of lights you hardly feel anything but you are aware that it is not entirely smooth and the longer you brake for you can definetley feel it more say from 80 or 90 kms down.

I wonder if the pads are not as suitable to this type rotor as it builds up pad layer around the slots.

Again thaks for your help.

[zdenko]

You should feel it at trying to go from 190 down to 70-80 for Turn 2 at Eastern Creek!!!
I am putting brake ducts in the car to see if it is temperature related, as I have triggered the highest paint marking (Red to white, to burnt off) on the disks.
Although with the 6x6's and Hawk Blues I burnt the marking off as well, but had silly wear rates instead.

Matt, do you have or know where you can get thermographic paint, as I want to see if the ducting actually works.

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by zdenko

You should feel it at trying to go from 190 down to 70-80 for Turn 2 at Eastern Creek!!!
I am putting brake ducts in the car to see if it is temperature related, as I have triggered the highest paint marking (Red to white, to burnt off) on the disks.
Although with the 6x6's and Hawk Blues I burnt the marking off as well, but had silly wear rates instead.

Matt, do you have or know where you can get thermographic paint, as I want to see if the ducting actually works.

We can get the paint but we have to buy seperate colours for each temp and it is expensive but i can chaeck if anything new is available if you like? Just pm me.

Originally Posted by sjako

Thanks very much for the reply. It was a reasonably quick process but is getting worse, definetely no high speed braking, bedded them in as per instructions it just seems the longer and harder the brake pedal is applied especially a on a decline, the more intence the buzzing type vibration occurs. When very light braking to a set of lights you hardly feel anything but you are aware that it is not entirely smooth and the longer you brake for you can definetley feel it more say from 80 or 90 kms down.

I wonder if the pads are not as suitable to this type rotor as it builds up pad layer around the slots.

Again thaks for your help.

If pad layer is around the slots then that may be your problem as the bendix ct pads have similar issues.

[kempy311]

Just a thought maybe the bushes in the front end.

[sjako]

Just had the front end checked out the other day at pedders, all bushes and joints are ok except I need new front shockers which were on the replacement list. I am starting to think it is a build up of pad material around the slots. I sent a message to DBA on Friday and had a call from the National accounts manager same day but missed the call. I will ring him on Monday to discuss the issue although I explained it pretty well in the email. Matt what pads are available that dont build up pad material on the rotors and would the HPX pad layer wear off in time if they were not skimmed up.
Thanks

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by sjako

Just had the front end checked out the other day at pedders, all bushes and joints are ok except I need new front shockers which were on the replacement list. I am starting to think it is a build up of pad material around the slots. I sent a message to DBA on Friday and had a call from the National accounts manager same day but missed the call. I will ring him on Monday to discuss the issue although I explained it pretty well in the email. Matt what pads are available that dont build up pad material on the rotors and would the HPX pad layer wear off in time if they were not skimmed up.
Thanks

Maybe try the TRW pads if you don't mind the dust but push the brakes a bit and i would machine absolute minimum on the rotors first.

[Alister]

I'm also having the same issue after installing DBA T2 slotted front rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads (Ceramic).

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by Alister

I'm also having the same issue after installing DBA T2 slotted front rotors and EBC Red Stuff pads (Ceramic).

EBC brake pads and DBA rotors are not a combo that would be my first choice as it seems the resins left as deposits is an issue that can happen with these pads as well as the Bendix CT pads and some others. It won't happen all the time and you will need to machine the rotors and change pads.
FYI - Just make sure when changing rotors that the wheel bearing hubs are cleaned of rust and debris before fitting the rotors on so a flat surface is visible.

[goose1000]

I'm kind of intrigued by this thread in that I am currently running DBA T2's and Bendix Ultimates, but was considering running QFM HPX with the T2's. I was under the impression that the latter combo was a good choice in that the QFM pads don't generate the same dust levels as the Ultimates but perform at about the same level but now its maybe sounding like this isn't the case?

[sjako]

May of cured it temporaily, Spoke to Kerry Perkins from DBA I said I was running HPX pads and he asked whether they had a chamfered edge, As we all know they dont, he asked me to remove the pads and file a chamfer on the leading and trailing edge of the pad, I just finished doing the front took the car for a drive and the roughness and vibration is almost gone. So I dont think I will be using a non chamfered pad on slotted rotors agin. Not sure if mine is an isolated problem. I will give it a week and update this tread again. See if the vibration returns. If it does not reurn I will do the rears.

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by sjako

May of cured it temporaily, Spoke to Kerry Perkins from DBA I said I was running HPX pads and he asked whether they had a chamfered edge, As we all know they dont, he asked me to remove the pads and file a chamfer on the leading and trailing edge of the pad, I just finished doing the front took the car for a drive and the roughness and vibration is almost gone. So I dont think I will be using a non chamfered pad on slotted rotors agin. Not sure if mine is an isolated problem. I will give it a week and update this tread again. See if the vibration returns. If it does not reurn I will do the rears.

Sometimes it works sometimes it doesn't but costs nothing to try so good luck and let us know.

Originally Posted by goose1000

I'm kind of intrigued by this thread in that I am currently running DBA T2's and Bendix Ultimates, but was considering running QFM HPX with the T2's. I was under the impression that the latter combo was a good choice in that the QFM pads don't generate the same dust levels as the Ultimates but perform at about the same level but now its maybe sounding like this isn't the case?

Less dust but they fade out earlier than ultimates from feedback i have been given. I run HPX pads in our car and don't have any shudder problems so it is not that common as we sell plenty of those pads without incident.The only common problem is light pad squeal under soft braking.

[goose1000]

Any chance you could give me a quote for rear axle DBA T2 slotted for a BA Falcon (DBA505S I think) and some matching qfm HPX pads?

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by goose1000

Any chance you could give me a quote for rear axle DBA T2 slotted for a BA Falcon (DBA505S I think) and some matching qfm HPX pads?

$280 plus freight or you can pick up thanks.

[goose1000]

Thanks Matt, are you open Saturday and should I ring ahead to check stock?

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by goose1000

Thanks Matt, are you open Saturday and should I ring ahead to check stock?

Yes until midday and i have stock atm

[goose1000]

Thanks again Matt, looks like I'm stuck working tommorrow but plan on trying to get out to you next w/e.

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by goose1000

Thanks again Matt, looks like I'm stuck working tommorrow but plan on trying to get out to you next w/e.

No worries when your ready

[sjako]

Just updating my last reply. Vibration and buzzing have returned in about 600 km, It seems to be the leading front edge of the pads that are causing the problem, for some reason the leading front edge of the pad seems to be getting roughened up as the pad passes over the slot. Trailing edge is smooth.

[Alister]

It's very disappointing, DBA rotors are not cheap and you think you are paying extra for quality. I ran a similar combo back a couple years ago when I had my Calais LS1 - DBA slotted rotors with EBC Greenstuff pads. Soon after installing them the shudder came. I then sold the car so didn't think much of it.

Last car was a J31 Maxima and I used RDA slotted and Bendix Ultimates - beautiful combo, no issues.

Now I have issues with DBA and Redstuff on my XR6T. I don't think you can blame the pads. Maybe I should pull the rotors off and just put on RDA slotted ones. They are much cheaper too...

[FLOORED]

Originally Posted by Alister

It's very disappointing, DBA rotors are not cheap and you think you are paying extra for quality. I ran a similar combo back a couple years ago when I had my Calais LS1 - DBA slotted rotors with EBC Greenstuff pads. Soon after installing them the shudder came. I then sold the car so didn't think much of it.

Last car was a J31 Maxima and I used RDA slotted and Bendix Ultimates - beautiful combo, no issues.

Now I have issues with DBA and Redstuff on my XR6T. I don't think you can blame the pads. Maybe I should pull the rotors off and just put on RDA slotted ones. They are much cheaper too...

Don't be put off the DBA products are a very good quality product but running ebc greenstuff or redstuff and Bendix CT pads will cause the issues you have and it is the resins in the brake pad that leave deposits on the rotor face around the slots that are high spots and cause the issues. DBA rotors run with Hawk pads and many others will give you major benefits in your braking.

[sjako]

Hi Matt, Thanks very much for your replies and your assistance especially as I got the parts from GSL rallysport. I am sure that DBA rotors and HPX pads are very good products, unfortunately they are not in tune with my car. I will try and sort it out with DBA and hopefully come up with a amicable solution. Thanks Again.

[zdenko]

You know what, I have not posted for years after selling my Falcon but google led me back to this old thread 8 years later.

I believe this thread needs an update as I still have this problem with T3's.
BTW, I have never actually bothered following up with DBA about this.

This time on a 2009 Mazda MX-5 with DBA 4000 T3 rotors.
This time with Winmax W3 pads.

Same buzzing, same transfer layer issues as the Carbotechs from 8 years ago.

Sorry to say it but I have avoided DBA T3 rotors like the plague since my last experience and only am suffering again because this car came with the rotors when I bought it last year.

I have found some pads work well with the T3's but are generally the more abrasive type Carbon Metallic pads. OEM pads tend to work as well.
It always seems to be pads that need a transfer layer that have issues with the T3 slot design.


I have actually been running DBA 4000 (DBA HD) Plain rotors on the other 2004 MX-5 ever since with no problems for track use with various different pads.


Very curious if others have experienced this issue since this was first raised.