Fake XWGT court case

[ado351c]

Gotta Suck
http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/c...-1226387512280

[LG17]

Can't the De Romes now sue the person they bought it from?

[Donny]

Originally Posted by LG17

Can't the De Romes now sue the person they bought it from?

Considering they only paid 18k for the car in the first place, I doubt it would be worth the hassle or cost of legals etc..

[PlukaDuck]

HMMMM..........Looks like the price of original cars has just increased by 50% and rebirthed cars with badges just went down by 50%.

[NX74205]

Originally Posted by LG17

Can't the De Romes now sue the person they bought it from?

They can, but it depends on:

- When the car was bought. Under the Limitations Act, there is a limitation date on general contract disputes of 6 years from the date the cause of action arose. The article says 2006 but doesn't say what day in 2006. Whatever the case, if they want to, they must act fast.

- Whether the original seller misrepresented the car as a genuine GT when in fact it was not.

[FGII-XR6]

yes but not where fraud is involved and rebirthing is fraud

Originally Posted by NX74205

They can, but it depends on:

- When the car was bought. Under the Limitations Act, there is a limitation date on general contract disputes of 6 years from the date the cause of action arose. The article says 2006 but doesn't say what day in 2006. Whatever the case, if they want to, they must act fast.

- Whether the original seller misrepresented the car as a genuine GT when in fact it was not.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by au3xr6

yes but not where fraud is involved and rebirthing is fraud

Yes but how do you prove that the person who sold the car to the De Romes rebirthed it?

The best they could do would be to sue them for selling them a fake GT....

[nstg8a]

so they sold it for 90k and have to pay the buyer over 100k... thats gotta hurt

[Kingsley]

Ouch!!!!

[flooded one]

it would suck thou buying a car that you thought was genuine and it turns out too be fake.

[Donny]

Originally Posted by wildrider

it would suck thou buying a car that you thought was genuine and it turns out too be fake.

That's why you should always get any potential GT purchase fully inspected by someone who knows what the hell their looking at.

Even to the point (for me personally) where I would probably know enough to do my own inspections for any GT's I'd be personally buying.
Instead, I get someone else to look at them for me.
Why? Because they aren't the ones wanting to buy it and I know they will inspect the car impartially for me.
If I inspect it there's a good chance that emotional bias or even attachment could seriously affect my judgement.
Which could make me become oblivious to or overlook something critical or important.

[gcg2503]

Exactly Donny.

Always get a GT inspected by an independent third party. Many people have been burnt

[prydey]

whatever happened to buyer beware??

also, the story is a bit confusing to follow. this mr sammut who bought it off the de rome's only found out it was fake AFTER he sold it?

no mention of the 3rd buyer or what happened there. i'm guessing mr sammut has refunded the 3rd buyer before taking the de rome's to court.

all a bit messy. bit harsh on the original sellers if they didn't know it was rebirthed. i guess on the flip side, ignorance isn't an excuse.

[2011G6E]

So...the couple that sold it...the judge said he "accepted the couple had not known it was a fake when they sold it but ruled they were still liable for damages"...

That's a fricking worry...for everyone. That means that you have bought something in good faith, then sold it on believing it to be whatever you were told it is...and you're the poor bastard that gets slammed in court.
It's also a worry given that someone skilled enough could "rebirth" a car and if it's done well enough, you may have literally no idea. They said the guy checked the numbers with Ford and confirmed it was real.
It also brings up the possibility that at some time in the distant past, a wrecked GT is reborn as a new one using a shell and the ID plates and numbers...possibly done back in the days when they weren't worth a lot of money. My wedding car, an XY GT, was bought by a mate of mine in 1981 for $4000...
The guy also verified the numbers and inspected it...twice.

A much fairer ruling would be "Hey...everyone is a loser here...the seller honestly thought it was a GT, and you didn't bother to get it verified whether it was or not...sorry buddy...be more careful next time..."

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by prydey

whatever happened to buyer beware??.

i'd like to know if that applies, but i think this case the sellers misrepresented what was being sold, as opposed to just selling a "Falcon XY", they were selling a "Genuine GT". maybe?

even ebay says seller is responsible for the listing.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

i'd like to know if that applies, but i think this case the sellers misrepresented what was being sold, as opposed to just selling a "Falcon XY", they were selling a "Genuine GT". maybe?

even ebay says seller is responsible for the listing.

the judge accepted that the seller didn't know it wasn't genuine, although when you look at the extra info donny has provided, things definitely don't add up. i think someone knew something.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by prydey

whatever happened to buyer beware??

also, the story is a bit confusing to follow. this mr sammut who bought it off the de rome's only found out it was fake AFTER he sold it?

no mention of the 3rd buyer or what happened there. i'm guessing mr sammut has refunded the 3rd buyer before taking the de rome's to court.

all a bit messy. bit harsh on the original sellers if they didn't know it was rebirthed. i guess on the flip side, ignorance isn't an excuse.

The item was misrepresented... it was sold as a GT Falcon, which it isnt.
The ruling is a bit extreme, as how do you 100% garantee that the car is genuine?

It all depends too on how it was advertised etc... if you had a GT advertised, as is where is, needs resto, rust in the usual places etc etc... there isnt much recourse on you.

If you say "genuine GT, immaculate, turn key and drive away".... and it falls apart or is found to be full of bog or a fake... then your in trouble.

Clive Wall used to be in townsville was from memory, one who dished out harsh sentances and penalties too!

There was thread about this in the classic section a few months ago and provided a link to the court transcripts. It made for an interesting reading.

Joanne and Geoff De Rome werent as innocent as it seems, as they gave out a receipt for the wrong amount among other things....

[2011G6E]

Market price? You're talking about an immaculate GT...this one needed fully restoring...how bad was it?
2006...and this wasn't a HO, it wasn't the most desirable (and XY)...there was always a huge price variation between XR/XW's and XY's. In the late 1990's I turned down a deal on a genuine (verified by the GT club) XW GT that was in pretty good registered condition (original paint that was a bit faded, interior a bit tired but otherwise good) for $8000. At the same time my friend sold the XY GT that was our wedding car, which was in immaculate condition, for $25,000. This was not long before the year 2000, and was about right at the time for what it was.


Look at how the prices went up and down quickly with the most desirable of the desirable, the XY GTHO...
Value 2007: $683,500
Value 2008: close to $1 million
Value 2010: $331, 000
From 2000 to 2007 the values skyrocketed, but the gap between GT's and GTHO's was vast, and depended greatly on the model, XR, XW, or XY.

As for asking for a high price and dropping it...are you assuming there was no negotiation? There was no to-and-fro between potential buyer and seller? Of course you ask high first...maybe ridiculously high if you want to get a good price...and be prepared to be talked down to maybe more than you really wanted for it in the first place. Are you saying no one here would do that, that you'd all just ask for a low book price and stick to it?

Given the common practice form many many years now of copying GT's and rebirthing wrecks, I bet there are a lot of people sweating...both buyers and sellers...after this rediculous court case outcome.

[Donny]

There's a few points that some have missed.
1. They bought the car in the height of the boom for 18k. Whats wrong with that picture?? What was the going price for a clean XW GT then?? Not 18k.
2. The deromes turned around and advertised it for 130ish K, and then flipped it for 90k.. In the boom, I doubt anyone would have dropped 40k in negotiations without a darn good reason.

Also the vin/chassis numbers or a letter from Ford confirms NOTHING. All that does is tells you what Ford made 40 odd years ago. Not what it is today.

The guy who bought it made the mistake of not getting it checked out properly, and this is one area where I think the courts decision is a little unjust. The buyer looked it over twice and obviously had no clue as to what he was looking at and I don't think it was totally fair that he didn't cop some of the blame for his lack of diligence.

Sammut found out it was a fake when a buyer came and properly inspected it and found it to have issues. I don't think they did a deal, and I don't think the car changed hands then.

[Uncle Tone]

Originally Posted by Donny

There's a few points that some have missed.
1. They bought the car in the height of the boom for 18k. Whats wrong with that picture?? What was the going price for a clean XW GT then?? Not 18k.
2. The deromes turned around and advertised it for 130ish K, and then flipped it for 90k.. In the boom, I doubt anyone would have dropped 40k in negotiations without a darn good reason.

Yep. Sounds suss to me.

[F6T]

There has been a similar case recently handed down in the Tasmania Supreme Court. It has not been published yet but I expect it will in the next few weeks. Very similar facts to this case.

[PlukaDuck]

Originally Posted by F6T

There has been a similar case recently handed down in the Tasmania Supreme Court. It has not been published yet but I expect it will in the next few weeks. Very similar facts to this case.

I reckon there be quite a few people around c**ping there pants.
Should put a stop to a few dodgy operators around the country.

Also may stop a few vechiles being stolen and rebadged........HMMMMMM

[BPXR6T]

Yep, if I ever sell my GT I'll get it inspected before sale for just this reason. So it doesn't come back on me. Does anyone do these type of inspections professionally with liability insurance?

[Donny]

I had my XY GT properly inspected prior to buying it by someone who knows these cars very well, so I know if I sell it on that my butt is covered.

If you have a GT you want inspected, whether it's for a pre sale or pre purchase inspection you have a few avenues to try.

Starting with your local GT club. Then if you know certain people in the scene, you can often get a good referral off them of who in your area is best suited to inspect it. Some GT clubs will inspect the cars first to make sure it's a GT before accepting you as a member. The GT Nationals is held every second year has a scrutineering process to find any rebodies etc before entry.

However if your chasing written guarantees etc, forget that.. You will NEVER get any guarantees on inspections done.

[nstg8a]

yeah given the amount of costs and reparation awarded i think theres still a fair bit to this case that hasnt been publicised.