Electric power steering.

[ute83]

What are everyone's thoughts on ELP over the older hydraulic systems?
We have a 2015 Kuga in the family and my view is that at city speeds below 80kmh it's quite good, nice and direct but at speeds above 80kmh it is very busy, almost hard work keeping it in it's lane. Can't relax on a highway run like you can in our hydraulic power steered cars. I have had the same feedback from several other people. What are your thoughts?

[Linkachu]

My brother and mother both have a Holden Cruze with ELP and I like it. Nice and light around town for parking and when cornering it gives enough feedback that I didn't notice it is electric at all.

[The Yeti]

Got it in my outlander I think it's great

[Express]

I have it in two cars and it speed variable and even though both have a bit of a different feel, they are both great.

The steering tightens up as speed increases.

[chopstar87]

I have it in the 300.. really nice and light at low speeds, which is good considering the size of the car, when parking in tight spots and no issues with it a speed at all, really compliant and smooth.

[Ken_AUXR8]

I don't like it personally, to me it feels disconnected and artificial. Drove a couple of new Toyotas with it recently, even over railway tracks there was zero movement or feel. Im sure they'll get better over time though.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Ken_AUXR8

I don't like it personally, to me it feels disconnected and artificial. Drove a couple of new Toyotas with it recently, even over railway tracks there was zero movement or feel. Im sure they'll get better over time though.

It wouldn’t surprise that there is good and bad but you can’t tar all cars because of the great driving characteristics of a Toyota, not that I’ve driven one to know.

Mine are as tight as a drum at speed or when pushing the cars, you can point and shot, slide and twirl as they firmly hold their position with the tip of one finger and you always know exactly where centre is.

I also drive cars with hydraulic setups but none are better and most aren’t even close when it comes to feedback.

And as chopstar87 has said, it’s hard to beat the way they lighten up at low speeds to make parking easier then firm up to give you confidence in the steering at speed.

[tranquilized]

It's not really an electric vs hydraulic comparison, the systems vary so much car to car.

I've got a VF Calais which is my only experience with ELP. The VF is regarded as having a well sorted system, and my experience backs that up - nice and light at low speeds but firms up and feels great at speed. It makes my XH van feel like a tank despite it being nearly 400kg lighter...

[Brazen]

I have it in my Camry, pretty average. Drive a VF Commodore and it is superb, steers beautifully weighted and precise yet sits straight on the highway with no constant correction. Depends on the car rather than the technology I think.

One unintneded benefit, no horrible power steering pump noise at low parking speeds.


My FG still steers great just a little heavy at low speeds. Would rather have it over the Camrys ELP.

[GasoLane]

Volvo Trucks had a series of quite good Video's demonstrating their Electronic assisted steering......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M7FIvfx5J10

[danzvtil]

Originally Posted by ute83

What are everyone's thoughts on ELP over the older hydraulic systems?
We have a 2015 Kuga in the family and my view is that at city speeds below 80kmh it's quite good, nice and direct but at speeds above 80kmh it is very busy, almost hard work keeping it in it's lane. Can't relax on a highway run like you can in our hydraulic power steered cars. I have had the same feedback from several other people. What are your thoughts?

I found the same thing when I first got my rio, its a sensation you learn to adjust to.

[mik]

Originally Posted by ute83

What are everyone's thoughts on ELP over the older hydraulic systems?
We have a 2015 Kuga in the family and my view is that at city speeds below 80kmh it's quite good, nice and direct but at speeds above 80kmh it is very busy, almost hard work keeping it in it's lane. Can't relax on a highway run like you can in our hydraulic power steered cars. I have had the same feedback from several other people. What are your thoughts?

So is the problem that the steering ratio is overly direct at highway speeds? or is it over assisted/to light ??

sometimes merely changing the type of tyre can make the world off difference to how a car steers, you would have to do a bit of research from others on that one.
i dont know if there may be adjustments to possibly change the amount of assistance on eps , and i dont know if a dealer would be any help on that score either, but perhaps a steering specialist might be a better chance for a bit of feedback.

[LoudPipes]

I’m another one that gives electric power steering the thumps up.

I have it in my Merc and I think it works very well.

It makes low speed manoeuvring a breeze and has a nice firm feel out on the highway.

It’s a big difference from my XY which has no power steering at all, so when I jump in the Merc it’s like my arms have gone to heaven.

Modern technology, yes please.

[Olbucko]

From what I have read the electric power steering fitted to SZ Territorys does not feel as precise and accurate as the hydraulic system fitted to earlier models.

I think car makers are fitting electric steering because it is cheaper to manufacture.

[new2ford]

Originally Posted by Olbucko

From what I have read the electric power steering fitted to SZ Territorys does not feel as precise and accurate as the hydraulic system fitted to earlier models.

I think car makers are fitting electric steering because it is cheaper to manufacture.

It's all about that quest for lower and lower fuel consumption. The old hydraulic steering put more load on the engine.

I found the SZ power steering to be pretty good, only a tiny difference from the original. No complaints at all about our X3's steering although the X5's is not quite as good and a few car reviews have commented on that.

I'm sure that in the early days some systems mightn't have been as good but have been refined since. Like runflat tyres and their effect on ride - I was surprised at the X3's beautiful ride, so runflats have obviously improved immensely.

After a little bit of development of all these innovations, after a few years people will forget the older systems. Some manufacturers are better than others though.

[superyob]

Is there still a mechanical link between the steering wheel and road wheels in case of electrical failure?

[jpblue1000]

In all the systems I know of there is still the same mechanical linkages between the steering wheel and rack. the electric motor acts on the column via gears or belts depending on the system via an electronic controller which adds or reduces input depending on speed and drivers input.
an electric failure will not result in steering failure anymore than a hydraulic failure.
From my understanding its fuel economy that lead manufacturers down this path. potentially weight saving as well which also helps.
I suppose if your car is hacked by terrorists they could make it turn left when you try and turn right! NOT

JP

[Brazen]

I think one of the car makers developed steer by wire. Where there is no mechanical linkage and the steering wheel acts as an electronic input.

[Express]

Originally Posted by Brazen

I think one of the car makers developed steer by wire. Where there is no mechanical linkage and the steering wheel acts as an electronic input.

You're right, Mercedes did steer by wire a long time ago and couldn’t sell it, other manufacturers in particular Toyota and Nissan have also had a go.

Mercedes customer feedback showed buyers were terrified if the electronics failed the vehicle would crash and kill them.

Mercedes said that wasn’t the case and the likelihood of a failure was no more than that of a mechanical system and the outcome would be similar.

Still they were forced to drop it as they were not prepared to allow the backlash to affect their sales.

All types ‘by wire’ systems have met some degree of customer opposition over the years, its human nature to not trust a computer.

[jpblue1000]

yeah I think its the infinity Q50 first to hit the market..no thanks in about 5 years time!
I seem to recall a concept car where the 'steering wheel' could be swapped left to right. plug and play style to suit intercontinental travel and manufacturing cost savings.
Its coming though.

JP

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by jpblue1000

yeah I think its the infinity Q50 first to hit the market..no thanks in about 5 years time!
I seem to recall a concept car where the 'steering wheel' could be swapped left to right. plug and play style to suit intercontinental travel and manufacturing cost savings.
Its coming though.

JP

Q50 has steer by wire but also keeps a mechanical connection to the front wheels.
Most planes are fly by wire these days but their systems contain multiple Comms channels and control computers in case of failure - some even keep some basic mechanical controls. This is done for redundancy purpose .
There are issues of legality as in some states vehicle with purely steer by wire without mechanical connection can't be registered. Another issue is that 12v electical system in todays cars is not suitable for efficient supply of steer and brake by wire systems - there were plans to introduce 42v car electrical systems.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by SumoDog68

Q50 has steer by wire but also keeps a mechanical connection to the front wheels.
Most planes are fly by wire these days but their systems contain multiple Comms channels and control computers in case of failure - some even keep some basic mechanical controls. This is done for redundancy purpose .
There are issues of legality as in some states vehicle with purely steer by wire without mechanical connection can't be registered. Another issue is that 12v electical system in todays cars is not suitable for efficient supply of steer and brake by wire systems - there were plans to introduce 42v car electrical systems.

It was 48V system for cars, we were talking about it in trade school a few years ago, it was on the cards.

But I doubt it would eventuate, like 24V has been a dismal failure in trucks IMO. Some run 24V, lots don't.

EPS is great, I've got it on my WS Fiesta.

[SumoDog68]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

It was 48V system for cars, we were talking about it in trade school a few years ago, it was on the cards.

But I doubt it would eventuate, like 24V has been a dismal failure in trucks IMO. Some run 24V, lots don't.

EPS is great, I've got it on my WS Fiesta.

It was 42V for main system with 14V auxiliary circuits ( as proposed by Mercedes and BMW) - 48V is too high as under certain conditions charging voltage would exceed 60V ( and they want to stay under 50V for electrical hazard protection).
They tripled the current standard (36V ) with charging voltage of 42V.
42/14 seems to be close to becoming a future standard .
It is true that it seems very slow to be implemented.

http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1227292
http://www.autospeed.com/cms/article.html?&A=0319

[tranquilized]

We've had fly by wire, as in the accelerator pedal not being operated by cable anymore since the BA. Haven't heard any complaints there.

Steer by wire is chasing further refinement, eliminating nvh travelling up through the steering column. I'm happy with the current arrangement thanks...

Electric power steering is also required for the self park and self drive features that are becoming common place now.

[mik]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

We've had fly by wire, as in the accelerator pedal not being operated by cable anymore since the BA. Haven't heard any complaints there.

Steer by wire is chasing further refinement, eliminating nvh travelling up through the steering column. I'm happy with the current arrangement thanks...

Electric power steering is also required for the self park and self drive features that are becoming common place now.

actually there have been a number of fly by wire throttle failures over the years , but its not a headline grabbing fault.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by mik

actually there have been a number of fly by wire throttle failures over the years , but its not a headline grabbing fault.

Depends how they fail I guess. Might make the news if the throttle gets stuck wide open at an inappropriate time...

[mik]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Depends how they fail I guess. Might make the news if the throttle gets stuck wide open at an inappropriate time...

from the ones i have read about either, they had no throttle, or inconsistent throttle, or would not run full stop, but i don't recall any that went full throttle(would not have a clue if there have been any go full throttle though) , or maybe they are engineered in a way so they cant go full throttle when they cark it ?? i really don't know mate.

[Mr Brooksy]

In our Toyota (base platform for the Lexus ES) it feels rubbish. I get more positive feel from my computer game steering wheel. Turning through from lock to lock it feels dead. I don't feel connected to the cars front end at all in slow speed or higher speed environments. I've not driven another car with it, so it could just be Toyota/Lexus.

[Uncle_Ken]

We have a family Suzuki Ignis, 2004 model with 80,000 k on the clock and have just replaced the electric power steering (easy to do). Feels fine around the city easy to drive and at speed (only ever had up to 100). It wouldn't stop me from buying a car because it had it rather than hydraulic
UK

[Express]

So far going by the posts in this thread, if you are not into electric steering you should steer away from Toyota.