Push back against G7 zero-emissions target

[Vesper Martini]

Saw this the other day, will it start a landslide of other countries pushing back?
https://www.drive.com.au/news/japane...ssions-target/

[Vesper Martini]

link from that article where they want the ban date on Petrol and diesel cars pushed back
anybody would have seen this coming.
https://www.drive.com.au/news/govern...35-ban-report/

[Bossxr8]

The people have to want to buy EV's first. The demand has to be high enough for the switch over to be made. If people just decide stuff it, I don't want one or it's just not suitable for what I do, and would rather buy a second hand ICE, then it's going to be a massive problem for the manufacturers. Would send a few to the wall.

[T3rminator]

Banning stuff is not the way to go...

Five countries seek to delay EU fossil fuel car phase-out
https://www.reuters.com/markets/euro...nt-2022-06-24/


Germany backs EU fossil fuel car phaseout, with slight change
https://www.reuters.com/business/aut...35-2022-06-21/

[Franco Cozzo]

Stevie Wonder even saw this one coming

Notice how Germany fired up it's coal power plants? They love a bit of virtue signalling, funny it's not all Sunshine, Kittens and Rainbows when Europe decides it's got the ****s up with itself again and they had to turn off the taps on Russian gas they snookered themselves into relying on.

[Sprintey]

The thing that gets me is that there are so many coal fired power stations under construction in, er, certain areas, that the sheer amount of CO2 is set to increase well beyond any date that is modelled to stop climate destruction. No matter what Europe, US, Australia etc do.

[Sprintey]

"What Mr Toyoda is trying to say is that hybrids running with synthetic fuels are good for the environment because they are extremely fuel efficient,” Amari said.

from first article,

he's right too. This heads in the direction of the biofuels/alternate fuels being talked about here.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

"What Mr Toyoda is trying to say is that hybrids running with synthetic fuels are good for the environment because they are extremely fuel efficient,” Amari said.

from first article,

he's right too. This heads in the direction of the biofuels/alternate fuels being talked about here.

Toyoda is not surprisingly a very cleaver man.
but even a nobody like me can see Hybrid with a synthetic would be more than enough.
I see Porsche is investing around $100 million US dollars to develop eFuel facilities in Australia, Chile and the United States.
https://www.exhaustnotes.com.au/pors...-in-australia/
I dont profess to know much about Efuels but if Porsche is doing this surely the must be a business case

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

"What Mr Toyoda is trying to say is that hybrids running with synthetic fuels are good for the environment because they are extremely fuel efficient,” Amari said.

50% of our fuel is Benzine already. will they go to 100%?

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

The thing that gets me is that there are so many coal fired power stations under construction in, er, certain areas, that the sheer amount of CO2 is set to increase well beyond any date that is modelled to stop climate destruction. No matter what Europe, US, Australia etc do.

China is building 30 new ones as we speak. It will wipe out all the reductions we make over the next decade many times over.

No one wants to say anything though, cause you can't offend the chinese

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Stevie Wonder even saw this one coming

Notice how Germany fired up it's coal power plants? They love a bit of virtue signalling, funny it's not all Sunshine, Kittens and Rainbows when Europe decides it's got the ****s up with itself again and they had to turn off the taps on Russian gas they snookered themselves into relying on.

Germany's reliance on Russian energy, so they can virtue signal about all the coal burning CO2 they have stopped, has massively blown up in their faces now.

Watching them tiptoe around the Ukraine invasion, and deliberately trying to not offend the russians in case they cut off their gas is pure comedy. Clown show stuff.

I love how they crow about how much CO2 they have stopped burning, but sourcing it from another country that most likely has next to no environmental standards, and more than likely burns more CO2 making electricity is a good thing for the planet. It's nothing but shuffling numbers around and making out like you have done something, when in reality you've probably gone backwards. It's just a massive con.

[b0son]

Germany's decision to shut down nuclear is looking like an inspired one.. not.

Meanwhile, China is hoovering up cheap coal from Russia, while helping the Africans build coal-fired power. Anyone can see their long game. Clean their own back yard up, while exporting their CO2 to Africa.

[GASWAGON]

Yes Franco China is still a developing country that is in someways way behind the west.

I don't understand why we cant have 'clean coal' and 'clean gas' that as you mentioned like cars etc are much more efficient now than 40 years ago???

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by GASWAGON

Yes Franco China is still a developing country that is in someways way behind the west.

I don't understand why we cant have 'clean coal' and 'clean gas' that as you mentioned like cars etc are much more efficient now than 40 years ago???

There is something like 110 Million Motorbikes in China - the main choice of transportation to the developing countries

[T3rminator]

Its sure going to be interesting to see how the 10% can convince the other 90% that they need to make short - medium term sacrifices to their growth and economy, to achieve a target, that may or may not have an impact to climate change.

I recall watching an interview with an Indian minister a while ago on ABC, he said "you ("the west") are holding us back when you reaped all the benefits of fossil fuel in the past". How do you respond to that?

China is interesting. Largest emitter but also one of the leaders in the renewable technology game.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Its sure going to be interesting to see how the 10% can convince the other 90% that they need to make short - medium term sacrifices to their growth and economy, to achieve a target, that may or may not have an impact to climate change.

I recall watching an interview with an Indian minister a while ago on ABC, he said "you ("the west") are holding us back when you reaped all the benefits of fossil fuel in the past". How do you respond to that?

China is interesting. Largest emitter but also one of the leaders in the renewable technology game.

Such a paradox, all the growth in electric vehicles adding load to the grid and yet
more renewable energy is closing that gap. Somewhere in there, a lot of BEVs are
being run and charged on renewable energy in spite of all the dirty power produced.

Somewhere in the future, I see China replacing its base load coal fired power stations
with a standardised nuclear power station design and like the French, declaring itself
clean and green.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Such a paradox, all the growth in electric vehicles adding load to the grid and yet
more renewable energy is closing that gap. Somewhere in there, a lot of BEVs are
being run and charged on renewable energy in spite of all the dirty power produced.

Somewhere in the future, I see China replacing its base load coal fired power stations
with a standardised nuclear power station design and like the French, declaring itself
clean and green.

China just doesn't care though. They have nuclear power, and could build a lot more if they wanted to. But they chose coal.

Seems like a very odd choice to be making in these modern times.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

There is something like 110 Million Motorbikes in China - the main choice of transportation to the developing countries
image

And that’s why electric bikes with Swap n go batteries are becoming the next big thing in Asia,
it’s possible that all of those petrol bikes will be outlawed and replaced by BEVs in the next few years.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by jpd80

And that’s why electric bikes with Swap n go batteries are becoming the next big thing in Asia,
it’s possible that all of those petrol bikes will be outlawed and replaced by BEVs in the next few years.

I find that hard to believe, somebody has to pay for that to happen.

[T3rminator]

Just heard that we have a free trade agreement with the EU in negotiation, and we might get "sanctioned" for not achieving carbon emission targets wtf?

A FTA that includes sanctions before its even started.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by GASWAGON

Yes Franco China is still a developing country that is in someways way behind the west.

I don't understand why we cant have 'clean coal' and 'clean gas' that as you mentioned like cars etc are much more efficient now than 40 years ago???

I wouldn't call it a 'developing country' - its a rich nation that is the world's manufacturing hub, they just take the **** on the rest of us claiming developing nation status to avoid having to clean up their act.

If China wanted to tomorrow they could basically switch to nuclear and renewable energy and fund it all no problems. They have nuclear weapons in short, medium, long range as well as nuclear submarines (also armed with nuclear weapons) so its not like they don't have the capability to use it for a good purpose.

They could even improve the standard of living of its own citizens too but they don't care - while other countries with high labour costs look towards automation, China has huge amounts of cheap human capital + slaves, they don't need to bother with stuff like automation.

Originally Posted by T3rminator

Just heard that we have a free trade agreement with the EU in negotiation, and we might get "sanctioned" for not achieving carbon emission targets wtf?

A FTA that includes sanctions before its even started.

Every FTA we've ever signed has been at the cost of our own industries, so why even bother, with 'friends' like the virtue signalling EU (who had no qualms relying on Russian oil and gas), who needs enemies?

They want to lecture Australia on cleaning it its act when they're all funding an invasion on another democratic European country through Russian oil and gas? Germany which is only 1500km away from Ukraine has been mighty slow on getting weapons to Ukraine when we're on the other side of the planet and already delivered many armoured vehicles to them.

The latest one with India is hilarious, it makes it easier for Indians to get perminent residency and citizenship, so we can have more mechanical engineers for the manufacturing industry we haven't had for nearly a decade now, guess we could use more cleaners, uber and truck drivers with masters in a mechanical engineering field.

Its just a thinly veiled hit to keep local wages low and unemployment up to a point where there's enough hungry people to keep them competing for bottom dollar while India gets to export its overpopulation problem to other countries where they benefit at Australia's expense.

[bungarra]

This TEDx presentation on E-Vehicles, Hybrids and ICE Vehicles by environmentalist activist Graham Conway is a good review of the reality versus propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by bungarra

This TEDx presentation on E-Vehicles, Hybrids and ICE Vehicles by environmentalist activist Graham Conway is a good review of the reality versus propaganda.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1E8SQde5rk

That was brilliant.

I'm convinced the best thing we could do for the climate on these forums is to use cleaner fuels (ie, less carbons in the chain, ie ethanol/methanol/biodiesel) within our already existing technology.

The only thing he forgets to carbon-account for is the energy/Co2 required to produce the renewable generation, but otherwise, it's top notch, and the ICE/hybrid still has plenty of relevance.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by jpd80

That’s because of the fall out with Australia, easiest option was to go back to mining coal themselves.
Funny though, a lot of our coal seems to be going to China via India…….

I was going to suggest it was to avoid buying our uranium, but i don’t even know if we actually sell it to them.

Originally Posted by T3rminator

They will get all their resources from BRICS. Its done. BRICS are setting up their own financial system to decouple from the US dollar. BRICS includes both Russia and India, with plenty of other countries now knocking at the door.



Just get it done! As long as it includes freedom of work and travel, I'm cool with it. Different FTAs will benefit different industries, it'll balance itself out I really miss those Euro adventures....although now might be bad timing.

India is using the chinese yuan to pay for Russian oil. I’ll bet the US and all the other virtue signallers didn’t see that coming. They have basically circumvented the wests sanctions with minimal impact to their economy.

I wonder if the US is even concerned that china is trying to get the yuan to become the worlds reserve currency, or will they continue sticking their heads in the sand while their no 1 superpower status evaporates right in front of their eyes. Too concerned with pronouns, abortion and jan 6. You know, the real important stuff.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I was going to suggest it was to avoid buying our uranium, but i don’t even know if we actually sell it to them.

We were supplying to China, Russia France and UK but I suspect that was scaled back a few years ago…

Our coal exporters found a clever work around that meant continued coal sales but not directly to China, it’s also face saving to them (China) so they maintain their shunning of buying coal from Australia. We still get the exports that China needs.

India is using the chinese yuan to pay for Russian oil. I’ll bet the US and all the other virtue signallers didn’t see that coming. They have basically circumvented the wests sanctions with minimal impact to their economy.

The big one is stopping Russia’s gas sales, that’s worth way more to them.
If you look closely there’s lots of loopholes in the embargo’s that let some slip through, there’s a lot of counterbalancing going on to prevent shortages in the wider community, giving India some oil supply from Russia helps them without massive sales worldwide.

I wonder if the US is even concerned that china is trying to get the yuan to become the worlds reserve currency, or will they continue sticking their heads in the sand while their no 1 superpower status evaporates right in front of their eyes. Too concerned with pronouns, abortion and jan 6. You know, the real important stuff.

China is actually teetering on the edge of a massive economic recession, they’re spending so much propping up their own economy that they risking a major collapse if the US goes into recession. You’re looking at the wrong metrics, what Biden is saying is for domestic consumption in an election year, China know where it’s bread is buttered, exports to USA and Europe, those are far more important than sucking up to Putin. China trying to thread the needle and benefit at the same time, I’d call it a wash.

Ukraine is the new Afghanistan….