Nissan turns down buyers

[tranquilized]

Just stumbled across this on The Age site;

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...523-1z3u0.html

Originally Posted by Drive

Some customers have "failed" a Nissan test to see if they were suitable for the new Leaf electric car.

Nissan has knocked back some customers interested in purchasing its first electric car, the Leaf, because they have been deemed “unsuitable” for ownership.

The plug-in electric vehicle officially hits the market on June 1, but interested customers need to pass a two-stage approval test before being issued with a certificate that will allow them to purchase the $51,500 car from one of Nissan’s special EV dealerships.

The test involves answering five questions about their intended usage for the car, followed by a visit from Nissan’s electrical supplier Origin Energy for an assessment of the suitability of the customer’s home electrical network.

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Speaking at a promotional event at Melbourne’s Federation Square designed to raise awareness of the Leaf’s non-reliance on petrol, Nissan Australia model line manager James Staveley told Drive the company had approved about 100 customers with another 100 undergoing the process.

Some intending customers have also been declined. “If you answered that you regularly drive from Melbourne to Sydney, then we might have politely informed the customer that this is not the car for them,” Staveley says.

“The majority of customers we have declined have been because they don’t have off-street parking available to them, which we consider essential for a safe and convenient recharging environment.”

When Mitsubishi brought the only other mass-produced electric car available in Australia to market, the i-MiEV, it initially appointed leases only to high-profile corporate customers.

As supply restrictions eased it later placed the car on general sale, although Nissan says it intends to maintain its selection criteria “to ensure our customers have a great experience with the Leaf”.

Nissan Australia is only holding one firm order on its books for the Leaf. “We chose to do it that way. We held a competition to be the first person to own a Leaf in Australia, and the family that won now holds the first and only order,” Staveley says.

For customers who pass the two “toll gates” of the selection process, the car will retail for $51,500 (plus on-road and dealer costs). That includes a recharging cable, but not a wall-mounted recharging station.

A package including the telephone book-sized station adds a minimum of $2700 to the price, or more depending on the logistics involved in its installation.

Staveley says the recharging station isn’t a mandatory purchase, but that plugging the car directly into a 15-amp power outlet – which is the minimum infrastructure required and costs several hundreds of dollars to install – will take five hours longer to fully charge the car.

“It’s the customer’s choice but we’d really prefer that people take the option of the recharging station because then we know it’s being properly and appropriately installed and minimises the risk of anything going astray,” he says.

Nissan Australia is displaying more than 40 petrol pumps in Melbourne’s Federation Square today, each modified for a new purpose in life including a coffee machine, a fountain, a robot and a gumball machine. The display intends to symbolise that electric cars can help to overcome the world’s strong reliance on petrol.

I'm all for new technology and moving away from imported oil for A to B transport, but the Nissan Leaf really is a pathetic attempt...

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

Just stumbled across this on The Age site;

http://theage.drive.com.au/motor-new...523-1z3u0.html



I'm all for new technology and moving away from imported oil for A to B transport, but the Nissan Leaf really is a pathetic attempt...

Why?
From what I have been told by people who have actually driven it said that it wasn't that bad. Ugly yes and not a performance car but for its purpose it was hard to really fault.

I am not a fan of the Leaf but calling it pathetic is going too far.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Wretched

Why?
From what I have been told by people who have actually driven it said that it wasn't that bad. Ugly yes and not a performance car but for its purpose it was hard to really fault.

I am not a fan of the Leaf but calling it pathetic is going too far.

Well how much is the Volt going to be when it lands in Australia? A decent whack more I'd imagine, cause its a whole world better than the Leaf.

Having to fork out an extra $2700 for a charger? You'll probably need two - one at home and one at work. Needing a garage to keep it in - not so common in the inner city. Needing a 15amp power point which will need its own dedicated circuit - not always so easy in older inner city houses. 100% reliant on filthy brown coal electricity.

They are the limitations I was referring to, not so much the car itself, which now you mention it, also happens to be incredibly ugly.

[turbodewd]

The bottom line is that electric cars are still not yet feasible. Maybe one day...

[csv8]

Needs a flux capacitor with Brock Polariser !!!

[Bud Bud]

Makes sense to me, no point someone buying an EV and then complaining about the fact that they are constantly finding themselves stranded 100-200 kms out of Melbourne every time they attempt a trip to Sydney or somebody in their street keeps pinching their electricity to run their growing lights every time they run an extension cord out to the street to charge their EV over night, otherwise all the negative comments about their experience with their EV may end up on a forum just like this one!

EV's will serve a purpose and become mainstream over the coming decades, they just will not be all things to all people, just like the Falcon and the Commodore have somehow become now.

Bud Bud

[tranquilized]

I understand that these early versions of alternative fueled cars will be expensive and have practical limitations. Thats always the way with new technology.

My point is, there are already other products on the market, or close to it, that are superior to the Leaf in every way.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I understand that these early versions of alternative fueled cars will be expensive and have practical limitations. Thats always the way with new technology.

My point is, there are already other products on the market, or close to it, that are superior to the Leaf in every way.

It has to start somewhere.
The ICE has had constant evolution since its inception.
The electric motor in cars has had a life of mixed development, currently there has been much $$ spent in R&D and with time the technology will improve.

[Fordman]

Why would you bother its hard enough buying a car i wouldnt have time to deal with it

[mik]

the way electricity is going up at some point it might be more expensive than petrol, i`d go lpg any day before electric.

[RASER]

The majority of buyers will be your local councils usuing your rates, makes them feel all warm-n-fuzzy at your expense.

This vehicle like ALL other 100% battery jobs are rubbish.

The future is Hybrid, what about a hybrid Falcon?

[tranquilized]

I dont think hyrbid is the future.

Hybrid is a stepping stone to the future.

Electric cars are the future, we just dont know exactly where the electricity will come from or how it'll be stored yet

[Polyal]

LOL at the knockers, the Leaf is a great car for the people it is suitable for, and thats the key as Nissan is rightly pushing. What I dont like about their advertising is the twisting of "zero emissions", they call it zero tailpipe emissions which is technically correct as it doesnt have a tail pipe but its not zero emissions.

The last thing they want is people bagging the product when they should have never brought the thing in the first place.

LPG, TDi, Hybrid and EV's all have a place, different methods suit different people, not a hard concept to grasp.

Originally Posted by turbodewd

The bottom line is that electric cars are still not yet feasible. Maybe one day...

Based off what?

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Polyal

LOL at the knockers, the Leaf is a great car for the people it is suitable for, and thats the key as Nissan is rightly pushing. What I dont like about their advertising is the twisting of "zero emissions", they call it zero tailpipe emissions which is technically correct as it doesnt have a tail pipe but its not zero emissions.

The last thing they want is people bagging the product when they should have never brought the thing in the first place.

LPG, TDi, Hybrid and EV's all have a place, different methods suit different people, not a hard concept to grasp.

I'm just waiting to see how much a Holden Volt will cost. If its close to the Leaf it'll absolutely kill it, well it should anyway. It can be plugged in to a standard electrical socket, but if you dont have access to one it can charge itself. If the need ever arose to drive a longer distance, you can in a Volt. If you only drive around the city, you dont have to put any petrol in it at all. Its inifintely more practical in every way. If it lands at a similar price point to the Leaf, then my initial summation (Pathetic) will be apt.

I'm not knocking EV's, just the Leaf.

[ebxr8240]

Most people who buy these type..
DON'T buy them again...
We have Elect Mitsi's at work..
I drove through Galston gorge to Dural..
Couldn't get back to Hornsby !!!
22Klrs away...Had to be towed back..

[Rodge]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I'm just waiting to see how much a Holden Volt will cost. If its close to the Leaf it'll absolutely kill it, well it should anyway. It can be plugged in to a standard electrical socket, but if you dont have access to one it can charge itself. If the need ever arose to drive a longer distance, you can in a Volt. If you only drive around the city, you dont have to put any petrol in it at all. Its inifintely more practical in every way. If it lands at a similar price point to the Leaf, then my initial summation (Pathetic) will be apt.
I'm not knocking EV's, just the Leaf.

Agree 100%. Volt isn't a bad looking vehicle either, whereas the Leaf, well... its certainly unique I'll give it that.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by tranquilized

I'm just waiting to see how much a Holden Volt will cost. If its close to the Leaf it'll absolutely kill it, well it should anyway. It can be plugged in to a standard electrical socket, but if you dont have access to one it can charge itself. If the need ever arose to drive a longer distance, you can in a Volt. If you only drive around the city, you dont have to put any petrol in it at all. Its inifintely more practical in every way. If it lands at a similar price point to the Leaf, then my initial summation (Pathetic) will be apt.

I'm not knocking EV's, just the Leaf.

I hear what your saying but dont let GM's spin fool you into thinking its a EV..its obviously a HEV.

Now sure you can drive x distance on just battery, and thats great, but comparing a HEV to an EV is like comparing LPG to TDI.

Sure you can, but again, its for different people in different situations.

Not directed at you, but critiquing is fine but dont let personal opinion cloud over all judgement people. Dont like EV's, fine, just like the EB4 dont buy one, but for those who can adapt to it then its a great alternative.

IIRC the Leaf was good for 1.5 hours at full power or 150kms..something like that. Drive it to work, charge during the day or not if its close, then drive home and charge over night. Not hard, that leaves the GT for the weekend.

Id be interested in a leaf as a daily if I had a short trip for work, have some solar power system running and enjoy. For the daily grind who cares.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I hear what your saying but dont let GM's spin fool you into thinking its a EV..its obviously a HEV.

Now sure you can drive x distance on just battery, and thats great, but comparing a HEV to an EV is like comparing LPG to TDI.

Sure you can, but again, its for different people in different situations.

Not directed at you, but critiquing is fine but dont let personal opinion cloud over all judgement people. Dont like EV's, fine, just like the EB4 dont buy one, but for those who can adapt to it then its a great alternative.

IIRC the Leaf was good for 1.5 hours at full power or 150kms..something like that. Drive it to work, charge during the day or not if its close, then drive home and charge over night. Not hard, that leaves the GT for the weekend.

Id be interested in a leaf as a daily if I had a short trip for work, have some solar power system running and enjoy. For the daily grind who cares.

Fair call, the Volt is very different in that it has a petrol engine on board, so does actually still need petrol to run.

But still, they obviously appeal to the same market, so comparing them is fair enough - its what any potential buyer will do thats for sure.

EV's will succeed, no doubt about that. The infastructure just needs to catch up - battery swapping stations where getting a full charge takes the same amount of time it does to fill up with petrol. As they start to roll out, the EV will be king in the cities. Hopefully someone puts some effort into figuring out how to power these battery stations with renewable energy...

[AndyXR6T]

Using 15A every night will become a costly exercise. Most people are struggling to pay their electricity bills now. Most customers I deal with say they don't use things like heaters and air cons as they effect the bill too much.
Also if your charging at work who pays for it?? How long does it take to charge??

[2011G6E]

As with all these things...either they're good enough for everyone to use every day in every way like "normal" cars, or they're just an expensive trendy item for show offs to use in the city so they can say "Look at me, see how green I am".

Until they have the same abilities and more importantly cost the same as a normal car, they will always remain useless and a burden on a company as they have to sell a limited vehicle for a huge price.

[tranquilized]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

As with all these things...either they're good enough for everyone to use every day in every way like "normal" cars, or they're just an expensive trendy item for show offs to use in the city so they can say "Look at me, see how green I am".

Until they have the same abilities and more importantly cost the same as a normal car, they will always remain useless and a burden on a company as they have to sell a limited vehicle for a huge price.

Yes I've seen you post the same sentiment before, but I dont agree.

Its to be expected that any new technology will cost more - thats a given. Its always been the case, and always will be, in every single product segment. Only market mechanisms can bring the cost down - ie, it has to be on sale and purchased by early adopters, until economies of scale kick in to bring the cost down. This cant happen any other way, and to suggest any new technology product could ever be introduced to the market at the same price as existing products is laughable.

As for every day use by everyone everywhere - maybe that doesn't need to be an option with these cars. City vs country driving is a vastly different environment, and it makes sense to have cars that excel at city driving at a cost to country abilities (if there must be), as for a lot of people, city driving is all they do. Also, it must be about 50% of Australia's population that live in the capital cities, if not more - Melb, Syd & Bris account for nearly 50% on their own - nothing wrong with a city car.

The Nissan Leaf however, has a few arguably small, but crucial shortcomings that result in it not even being suitable for many inner city buyers!

[Franco Cozzo]

Our TAFE is doing the training course for the Nissan technicians to be authorised to work on these, the only people who are authorised to service and repair these guys are the Nissan trained guys, not legally but I'm not going to be poking my hands into something which is carrying 400V+ through it, without the right tools and training, this ain't no 12V party where you short it out, blow fuses and burn your hand.

They have to wear face shields and full overalls just in case it gets arc-flash, which is like welding burn when connecting up the battery bank etc.

F-that, surely the Government has to regulate this so only people with particular qualifications can work on them, its too dangerous. You know what will happen, something will eventually go wrong, warranty won't cover it and the bill from the dealership will be through the roof, so they'll take it to the local auto electrician who will say yes they can fix it to get work in the door, then send the apprentice over to try identify the problem and they'll cook themselves.

I'm all for new technology and development, and I like the idea of the electric car, I just don't like the idea of Average Joe legally being able to play under the bonnet on something with this potential for harm, you can't do any 240V stuff yourself, so why should 400V+ DC be any different?

Originally Posted by Andy XR6 Turbo

Using 15A every night will become a costly exercise. Most people are struggling to pay their electricity bills now. Most customers I deal with say they don't use things like heaters and air cons as they effect the bill too much.
Also if your charging at work who pays for it?? How long does it take to charge??

TAFE was telling us 8-10 hours on a normal charge, you can fast charge it but it damages the batteries quickly.

What appeals to me on the electric car is that it produces all its torque the moment the engine starts turning.

[Bossxr8]

I guess Nissan had to question the potential buyers to see how gullible they are, and to make sure they carry a high enough level of smugness to own an EV, and to also have a strong ability to look down their noses at people who drive petrol cars.

And to also make sure they are dumb enough to believe that electric vehicles are so much better for the environment than an economical petrol or diesel powered one.

[2011G6E]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I guess Nissan had to question the potential buyers to see how gullible they are, and to make sure they carry a high enough level of smugness to own an EV, and to also have a strong ability to look down their noses at people who drive petrol cars.

And to also make sure they are dumb enough to believe that electric vehicles are so much better for the environment than an economical petrol or diesel powered one.

Yes indeed...study groups showed that people wanted the Prius for example to look a bit oddball and different to something like the quite normal looking Honda Civic Hybrid, and the reason was simple...people didn't just want to drive a Prius, they wanted to be seen to be driving a Prius, to say smugly "Look at me and how green I am and how environmentally aware I am and you are not".

The Volt is a much better idea, and shows real promise as you can indeed use it as a normal car where ever you may be. Kudos to it!

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Our TAFE is doing the training course for the Nissan technicians to be authorised to work on these, the only people who are authorised to service and repair these guys are the Nissan trained guys, not legally but I'm not going to be poking my hands into something which is carrying 400V+ through it, without the right tools and training, this ain't no 12V party where you short it out, blow fuses and burn your hand.

They have to wear face shields and full overalls just in case it gets arc-flash, which is like welding burn when connecting up the battery bank etc.

...which is the elephant in the room that no one mentions about these things...they have a much higher risk factor than any other vehicle on the road in an accident situation. Emergency personnel in overseas countries where these cars are more common have had to undergo special training about what to watch out for in crashed hybrids and full-electric cars, and there have been public campaigns about not touching anything at an accident scene just in case.

[Shonky.]

It's infant technology. It's clever that they are screening prospectives to ensure the program is a success. The first cd players were thousands of dollars and **** house. Early days yet

[Peuty]

It all comes down to minimising cost to Nissan when they run out of juice. For one reason or another, that scenario is covered in their roadside policy, so I can only imagine the cost to Nissan if I kept driving my new Leaf out to Goondiwindi every weekend and running out of power, needing a tow back to my nearest dealer.

[OzJavelin]

Interesting .. It's not useful to people who drive long(ish) distances so it's probably aimed as an inner city commuter .. But you can't park it on the streets like most inner city living.

Actually .. It's probably useful as a weekday hack in regional towns .. Typically close and quick living to work, shops etc, and fuel prices outside capital cities is high enough to be enticing. Would just need a real car to actually go anywhere outside of town.

[grandpa_spec_F6]

So it's 1/4 the size of my FPV, cost nearly as much, you have to purchase a charging station EXTRA if you don't have time to sit around and do SFA....and to add insult to injury you have to pass a certification test?!

I can't wait for the first viable electric car to hit the market, maybe I'll revisit in another 5 years...

[Bossxr8]

Wheels ran their long term Leaf out of juice, and had to have it towed.

And that was around town. The range indicators aren't very accurate, and constant speed driving sucks the juice, they are only good in constant stop start traffic.

[Wretched]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Wheels ran their long term Leaf out of juice, and had to have it towed.

That was done on purpose to test what would happen.