Stoned drivers

[xr8cam]

I am interested in what people think of the drug testing in relation to marijuana only. The bulk of people getting caught are over 50yo and only testing to marijuana, not illicit drugs. Do you think driving with marijuana in your system is dangerous? Do you think it is fair that it is a criminal conviction if found guilty?

[MDS69]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

I am interested in what people think of the drug testing in relation to marijuana only. The bulk of people getting caught are over 50yo and only testing to marijuana, not illicit drugs. Do you think driving with marijuana in your system is dangerous? Do you think it is fair that it is a criminal conviction if found guilty?

Yes and yes

[vztrt]

Depends on the level in their system. It would be like someone having. Beer compared to 10.

But the poice dont test for levels so if its in the persons system then they will be convicted....which can be 4 days after smoking.

If it was made legal then a level detection system would be required.

But if a person is stoned and driving then they deserve to get reamed.....same as a drink driver.

[Mont5.0]

Doesn't the drug testing test for all drugs? Why should it matter what the drug is?
You get caught you pay the penalty- regardless of age or substance.

[Beastie]

Thought I'd get in early...

[superyob]

Beer can be moderated. The whole point of hooch is to get off your face. Should not be on the road and should be charged with intent in the event an accident is caused...

[uniacidz]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

I am interested in what people think of the drug testing in relation to marijuana only. The bulk of people getting caught are over 50yo and only testing to marijuana, not illicit drugs. Do you think driving with marijuana in your system is dangerous? Do you think it is fair that it is a criminal conviction if found guilty?

Yes is dangerous
Impairs reaction times, attention to the road

Don't forget, driving a almost 2 tonne machine at speed is dangerous anyway, let alone stoned or alike

If you have to have ya fix, do so but leave a good amount of time to recover.

THC I think lasts for round 4-6 hrs but leave longer

License is important right? So are peoples lives

Do things right




Sent from my ASUS_Z00AD

[Junkyard-Dog]

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country but where I live methamphetamine appears to be the most common one being detected by police.

Almost every single driver that was detected under the influence of alcohol or drugs in this area this week was detected due to methamphetamine.

Source: https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-poli...t#.WINGf_LmiiM

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Junkyard-Dog

I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country but where I live methamphetamine appears to be the most common one being detected by police.

Almost every single driver that was detected under the influence of alcohol or drugs in this area this week was detected due to methamphetamine.

Source: https://www.police.sa.gov.au/sa-poli...t#.WINGf_LmiiM

Drug driving has taken over drink driving apparently. So not surprising.

[Junkyard-Dog]

Originally Posted by vztrt

Drug driving has taken over drink driving apparently. So not surprising.

It certainly is a sad state of affairs but I still find it quite surprising just how many people they are catching driving on meth.

[arronm]

If I got stoned today , I am probably OK to drive to work on Monday morning. Rules and testing for Mull are stupid.

[BENT_8]

So many people making comment with no idea.

believe it or not, most pot smokers don't even get 'off their face' as they've used it so regularly, unless they come across some high quality stuff, which is rare, it is nothing more than a slight buzz which lasts no more than 15 minutes and no where near enough to inhibit driving.
In fact it becomes akin to a cigarette smoker and is more about the habit than the stone, so much so that they are often worse for concentration without it whilst trying to source it than once they get their buzz.
I know plenty who've given it up rather than deal with the stresses of hunting it down.

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by arronm

If I got stoned today , I am probably OK to drive to work on Monday morning. Rules and testing for Mull are stupid.

Probably??

I don't like probably if you are coming the other way and me and my family are driving down the road.

[Vortex-98]

Just another way to raise revenue....people are probably more careful driving when there stoned ..an i think 0.05 is too low for alcohol i think coz we all love a beer should be 0.08 like N.Z laws an if you blow0.08 you pass not fail like our laws atm...people who are 0.05 have prob had one drink an thats to low for a country that loves a beer its part of our culture an us just much fairer

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Vortex-98

Just another way to raise revenue....people are probably more careful driving when there stoned ..an i think 0.05 is too low for alcohol i think coz we all love a beer should be 0.08 like N.Z laws an if you blow0.08 you pass not fail like our laws atm...people who are 0.05 have prob had one drink an thats to low for a country that loves a beer its part of our culture an us just much fairer

That is the dumbest thing ever said on AFF. If you want to make comments like that try Facebook.

[The Yeti]

Originally Posted by Vortex-98

Just another way to raise revenue....people are probably more careful driving when there stoned ..an i think 0.05 is too low for alcohol i think coz we all love a beer should be 0.08 like N.Z laws an if you blow0.08 you pass not fail like our laws atm...people who are 0.05 have prob had one drink an thats to low for a country that loves a beer its part of our culture an us just much fairer

You have to be trolling

It's not ******* revenue raising, it's trying to get dick heads off the street before they ****up someone's life (or their own)

"Probably more careful, that's funny, they probably have to try harder to concentrate on driving but that doesn't make them better drivers or mean that their levels of concentration are higher than an in affected driver

As for alcohol I'd have no problem with it being lowered to 0.02 across the board
And before you ask, yes I drink, just when I do I don't drive

[foxtrot3]

Originally Posted by Vortex-98

Just another way to raise revenue....people are probably more careful driving when there stoned ..an i think 0.05 is too low for alcohol i think coz we all love a beer should be 0.08 like N.Z laws an if you blow0.08 you pass not fail like our laws atm...people who are 0.05 have prob had one drink an thats to low for a country that loves a beer its part of our culture an us just much fairer

Hi. Be careful when you go back Bro. the limit in NZ is 0 for under 20 year olds and .05 for over 20 year olds since 2014. ( http://www.transport.govt.nz/land/bloodalcoholqanda/ ). Cheers MD

[2011G6E]

1: Is it a mind altering substance?
2: THEN DON'T FRICKING DRIVE A CAR WHILE YOU'RE ON IT.

There, plain and simple.

How would these sensitive petals who simply must get on the weed or booze and think they should be able to drive be able to cope with a job like mine? We're breath tested before every shift when signing on, and if you're not zero, you're gone for at least three days off the rails. If you go off for secondary testing after blowing positive and you're over...well...
You have to [i]think/i] while going out and having a drink...how much to drink? How long until my next shift? How long will it take for the alcohol to leave my system completely? Will I still be even 0.01 tomorrow when I sign on?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by Vortex-98

Just another way to raise revenue....people are probably more careful driving when there stoned ..

Another probably.

Pretty sure their reactions would be shot, ever tried talking to someone who has smoked pot?? Most can't even string a sentence together without getting confused.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by XB GS 351 Coupe

Another probably.

Pretty sure their reactions would be shot, ever tried talking to someone who has smoked pot?? Most can't even string a sentence together without getting confused.

You should probably read Russel's post where findings have shown a reduction in the likelihood of contributing to an accident as a result of smoking pot.
You'll probably find that alcohol increases your likelihood of an accident by over 7.4x whereas Marijuana use only increases it by 0.7x times and alcohol is legal to buy and consume.

Neither is acceptable, one is legal.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by BENT_8

You should probably read Russel's post where findings have shown a reduction in the likelihood of contributing to an accident as a result of smoking pot.
You'll probably find that alcohol increases your likelihood of an accident by over 7.4x whereas Marijuana use only increases it by 0.7x times and alcohol is legal to buy and consume.

Neither is acceptable, one is legal.

I have read Russ's post.

Where does it say that?

EDIT: Oops, found it. However don't just cherry pick the part of the post that suits your argument - post the whole post...

I have reposted it and highlighted your bit...

There isn't anywhere near as much definitive research yet on the effect of cannabis use as it relates to driving, however a recent study in the USA (where 23 States either condone or have decriminalised cannabis use) concluded:

Experts agree, however, that the combination of cannabis and alcohol raises the chance of crashing more than either substance by itself. In a study of 1,882 motor vehicle deaths, the U.S. Department of Transportation found an increased accident risk of 0.7 for cannabis use, 7.4 for alcohol use, and 8.4 for cannabis and alcohol use combined.

What that study also identified was that:

..the simultaneous use of alcohol and cannabis produces significantly higher blood concentrations of cannabis's main psychoactive constituent, THC, as well as THC's primary active metabolite, 11-hydroxy-THC than cannabis use alone.

A number of US States have set limits for THC detected at 5 ug/Land a recent Iowa University study found that:

Drivers with blood concentrations of 13.1 ug/L THC, showed impairment that was similar to those with a .08 breath alcohol concentration....

.. while another study concluded:

Attentiveness, vigilance, perception of time and speed, and use of acquired knowledge are all affected by marijuana; in fact, a meta-analysis of 60 studies concluded that marijuana causes impairment in every performance area that can reasonably be connected with safe driving of a vehicle, such as tracking, motor coordination, visual functions, and particularly complex tasks that require divided attention, although studies on marijuana’s effects on reaction time have been contradictory.

Perhaps the most definitive current view comes from the research conducted by one of the States that set an actual limit for the concentration of THC, which concluded:

In summary, laboratory tests and driving studies show that cannabis may acutely impair several driving-related skills in a dose-related fashion, but that the effects between individuals vary more than they do with alcohol because of tolerance, differences in smoking technique, and different absorptions of THC. Driving and simulator studies show that detrimental effects vary in a dose-related fashion, and are more pronounced with highly automatic driving functions, but more complex tasks that require conscious control are less affected, which is the opposite pattern from that seen with alcohol. Because of both this and an increased awareness that they are impaired, marijuana smokers tend to compensate effectively for their impairment by utilizing a variety of behavioral strategies such as driving more slowly, passing less, and leaving more space between themselves and cars in front of them. Combining marijuana with alcohol eliminates the ability to use such strategies effectively, however, and results in impairment even at doses that would be insignificant were they of either drug alone. Case-control studies are inconsistent, but suggest that while low concentrations of THC do not increase the rate of accidents, and may even decrease them, serum concentrations of THC higher than 5 ng/mL are associated with an increased risk of accidents. Similar disagreement has never existed in the literature on alcohol use and crash risk.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by PG2

I have read Russ's post.

Where does it say that?

EDIT: Oops, found it. However don't just cherry pick the part of the post that suits your argument - post the whole post...

I have reposted it and highlighted your bit...

Why would I repost the whole thing, its already there for those who care to read it, clearly you didn't read the whole thing to start with or you wouldn't have needed to edit your post, lol.

The question is, why didn't you highlight the sentences in the last paragraph which suggests people who are under the influence of pot alone actually adjust their driving habits to suit and in fact become more cautious drivers.
Or doesn't that suit your argument, lol.
Its the alcohol that is the biggest problem and is legal to buy, consume and drive under the influence of, go figure.

And for the record, none of it 'suits my argument' as I don't have an 'argument' to suit, I was simply pointing out the misconceptions that pot provides some euphoric high where all sense of reality goes out the window because its just not true and I supported it with scientific findings as provided by the bloke who runs this show.
But I do note that none of you heroes took up the challenge when Russ provided it...

[fordsaretheonlycar]

It amazes me in Sth Aust that there is a set of cameras along the Freeway that will use recognition technology to detect if a car is unregistered by the number plate, also speed detection, but cars constantly tailgate each other in long columns at 100 km/hr under it and there is not the slightest concern. Tailgating is a huge issue. I will be getting front and rear facing camcorders in my car soon, I feel it is a necessity these days the way the roads are built up and the way the Govt slams you will expensive fines through the postal system, and you have no witness without video evidence. The Australian Attitude needs to change, very aggressive drivers as well. Precious little darlings everywhere who think you are holding them up doing the speed limit in front of them. There are more issues than just drug driving to combat. I am amazed that I passed my drivers test in 1988 and have NEVER been required to do a follow up/ refresher. I am amazed the lack of scientific knowledge required, especially Physics, that let's you pass a drivers test in complete ignorance of the facts. I am amazed that you can have a full license in Australia without ever needing to pass an Advanced Driving Course. I am amazed that you can pass a drivers test with absolutely zero knowledge of how a semi trailer acts and what they require. I am Australian born and bred for what that's worth.

[Streets]

Originally Posted by fordsaretheonlycar

Tailgating is a huge issue.

The Australian Attitude needs to change, very aggressive drivers as well. Precious little darlings everywhere who think you are holding them up doing the speed limit in front of them.

Agreed. It has gotten much worse lately. I do the speed limit everywhere and every time I go out driving there is some idiot sitting up my ***. It used to just be tough guys in big 4wds but now it's every idiot in every car. Even much smaller cars that would lose in a fight with a Falcon.

Even on the highway when I am on cruise control at 100kph (GPS tested), they prefer to sit up my *** rather than use the overtaking lane. I don't get it. People can't keep their space. If they're not up your backside, they're cutting right in front of you.

[nstg8a]

I think they should be testing for impairment rather than arbitrary numbers.

A guy that has a cone after dinner then goes through a drug test on the way to work in the morning is not likely to be any more impaired than anyone else.


How do you test for impairment? That would be the hard part.

[xr8cam]

I think it gets tricky when you can drink & drive legally which makes light of driving impaired anyway you look at it. So, one person pulled over for random test has had 2 beers, blows .05 and is on his way. Another person, chooses not to drink & drive ever, gets detected the next day and ends up in court because it's illegal. They are both drugs, one is poison, one is naturally occurring. Who is the more responsible driver? The driver affected by fresh alcohol in his system or the sober driver with traces in his system?

[XB GS 351 Coupe]

Originally Posted by xr8cam

So, one person pulled over for random test has had 2 beers, blows .05 and is on his way.

Hate to be the bearer of bad news, blow 0.05 and you wont be on your way, 0.05 is low range drink driving and you will be on your way to Court to speak to the Magistrate.

0.049 you will be on your way.

[Sabantien]

Had a flatmate who would drive on pot.
By drive I mean crawl along at walking pace with the driver door open, and one leg out, 'walking' the car along.

Admittedly, she's a bit of a minority. I've never seen pot affect anyone the way it got her. (Gibbering madly and screaming at everyone to get out because the cops are coming, refusing to go into her bedroom for weeks on end because the ghosts would kill her, etc).

But quite frankly, if you're on something, stay off the road.

[BENT_8]

Originally Posted by Sabantien

Had a flatmate who would drive on pot.
By drive I mean crawl along at walking pace with the driver door open, and one leg out, 'walking' the car along.

Admittedly, she's a bit of a minority. I've never seen pot affect anyone the way it got her. (Gibbering madly and screaming at everyone to get out because the cops are coming, refusing to go into her bedroom for weeks on end because the ghosts would kill her, etc).

But quite frankly, if you're on something, stay off the road.

I'd say she had underlying mental health issues and shouldn't have been anywhere near any recreational drug to be honest.
Weed doesn't work that way, its not a hallucinogenic its a depressant if anything, you don't get high, you get low and relaxed.

[Express]

It’s been years since I was stoned (marijuana) but I’d often drive afterwards and believe I was a cautious, attentive good driver but in reality I was probably a danger and today I would no more think of doing it than drink driving.

So if you are going to get stoned than make sure you don’t need to be behind the wheel for a day or so.

One of the reasons it took so long for Mobile Drug Testing to be introduced was because the testing had to be able to detect the difference between recent use and residual effect.



This is an abridged version taken from Transport for NSW Centre for Road Safety site.

Mobile Drug Testing (MDT) detects drivers who have recently used three common illegal drugs: ecstasy, cannabis and speed (including ice).

If your MDT test is positive you’ll be taken to a roadside van or bus or back to a police station to provide a saliva sample. This sample is tested and if positive you’ll be banned from driving for 24 hours. All samples are sent to a laboratory for further analysis and if positive the police will contact you and charge you with driving with the presence of an illegal drug.

If you are stopped because your behaviour or driving is erratic and police suspect you are under the influence of illegal or prescription drugs they can require you to undergo blood and urine testing. These tests cover a large range of legal and illegal substances that can impair drivers and can lead to a charge of driving under the influence (DUI), which has serious penalties.

All drivers involved in fatal crashes undergo blood and urine testing for drugs and alcohol.

Illegal drugs can be detected in your saliva by an MDT for a significant time after drug use, even if you feel you are OK to drive. The length of time that illegal drugs can be detected by MDT depends on the amount taken, frequency of use of the drug and other factors that vary between individuals. Cannabis can typically be detected in saliva by an MDT test stick for up to 12 hours after use. Stimulants (speed, ice and pills) can typically be detected for one to two days.

http://roadsafety.transport.nsw.gov....ing/index.html



This I lifted from the Alcohol and Drug Foundation for Victorian drivers and again is abridged.

Saliva Tests

Random roadside drug testing, in Victoria and most other states and territories, uses saliva samples to detect illicit drugs.

A sample of the driver's saliva is taken by specially-trained police officers, using an absorbent collector placed in the mouth or touching the tongue. This test takes about three to five minutes. If the test is positive, it must be confirmed by laboratory testing before charges can be laid.

In Victoria, roadside saliva tests detect drugs that contain:

THC (Delta-9 tetrahydrocannabinol), the active component in cannabis

Methamphetamine, which is found in drugs such as "speed", "base", "ice", and "crystal meth"

MDMA (Methylenedioxymethamphetamine), which is known as ecstasy.

These tests do not detect the presence of legally prescribed drugs or common over-the-counter medications.


How long will drugs stay in my system?

Drugs and alcohol affect every person differently, so drug testing results will be unique to each individual.

Results can be affected by:
•The strength of the drug or alcohol
•How much you have taken
•How you have used it
•How often you have used it
•Other drugs you have taken


Results can also be affected by your:
•Tolerance
•Sex and age
•Overall health and wellbeing
•Metabolism
•Mood, and the environment you are in


How long can they be detected?

Cannabis: Random roadside drug testing can detect THC (the active ingredient in cannabis) for at least several hours after use. The exact time can vary, depending on the amount and potency of the cannabis used and the individual's metabolism. Inactive THC residue in the body of a driver from use in previous days or weeks will not be detected. However there have been reported cases of people testing positive to cannabis a number of days after consuming.

Methamphetamine ("speed", "ice") may be detected for approximately 24 hours after use by random roadside drug testing and is dependent upon the amount and potency of the drug and the individual's metabolism. Note that the withdrawal effects of methamphetamine, such as fatigue, anxiety and irritability, can also lead to unsafe driving.

MDMA (ecstasy) may be detected for approximately 24 hours after use by random roadside drug testing. The exact time will be dependent upon the size and potency of the dose, if other drugs are used at the same time and the individual's metabolism.

http://www.druginfo.adf.org.au/fact-...web-fact-sheet