FG wagon and Fairlane proposals, secret prototypes

FalconXV · 12-09-2016, 11:37 PM

Now that Ford is closing, do you think they'll reveal any information about secret prototypes ( such as EF with semi-trailing arm IRS, 4.0 diesel and direct injection engines and/or show us the abandoned FG Fairlane/ wagon proposals?

Itching to see them because I know they exist. We saw that stillborn Capricorn POS and the abandoned Kingswood (HA?) that never got built. Hoping we get to see them.

Dauphin · 13-09-2016, 01:17 PM

Hoping they do. I always wonder how the prototype photos get into books and such over time. Magazines and books tend to source a lot of stuff the general public can't seem to get.

I have a 1980s car magazine I got recently which has XF styling concepts I've never seen before, one of which looks a bit like the EA.

SLO247 · 13-09-2016, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauphin

I have a 1980s car magazine I got recently which has XF styling concepts I've never seen before, one of which looks a bit like the EA.

Would love to see that!

Trump · 13-09-2016, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Now that Ford is closing, do you think they'll reveal any information about secret prototypes ( such as EF with semi-trailing arm IRS, 4.0 diesel and direct injection engines and/or show us the abandoned FG Fairlane/ wagon proposals?

Itching to see them because I know they exist. We saw that stillborn Capricorn POS and the abandoned Kingswood (HA?) that never got built. Hoping we get to see them.

And how do you know they exist?

**DFB FGXR6** · 13-09-2016, 06:09 PM

Sadly, whilst we would all love to see this sort of stuff, Ford are about selling new cars. Releasing stuff like this is pointless in their eyes.

Its something that separates Ford and GM/Holden, the red team seem to see value in engaging with their fans as a way of "keeping the faith" so to speak, embracing and acknowledging the past as a way promoting the brand.

FalconXV · 13-09-2016, 06:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Sadly, whilst we would all love to see this sort of stuff, Ford are about selling new cars. Releasing stuff like this is pointless in their eyes.

Its something that separates Ford and GM/Holden, the red team seem to see value in engaging with their fans as a way of "keeping the faith" so to speak, embracing and acknowledging the past as a way promoting the brand.

Just to keep goodwill with enthusiasts. It would generate plenty of interest and another hat tip to a big chapter of their history. I hope at least this kind of stuff becomes available to biographers and historians rather than just destroyed, it's interesting...

Crazy Dazz · 10-09-2017, 06:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

Sadly, whilst we would all love to see this sort of stuff, Ford are about selling new cars. Releasing stuff like this is pointless in their eyes.

Its something that separates Ford and GM/Holden, the red team seem to see value in engaging with their fans as a way of "keeping the faith" so to speak, embracing and acknowledging the past as a way promoting the brand.

What many here can't seem to get their heads around, is that the Ford we grew to love is DEAD. We can debate the politics of who killed it and why, but its dead, gone, buried.

Pretty much the only decent seller Holden has is the Commode, and they plan to keep using that badge. So obviously keeping the bogans interested and convincing them that their Chinese Opel is just the same, makes a lot of sense.

Ford must now concentrate on selling their imports (and have been doing so for several years.) Fans of the Falcon, GT, Fairlane, Utes, Territory, etc, are only of use if we can be converted. Last thing they want to do is remind us what we have lost.

Dr Terry · 10-09-2017, 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

Pretty much the only decent seller Holden has is the Commode, and they plan to keep using that badge. So obviously keeping the bogans interested and convincing them that their Chinese Opel is just the same, makes a lot of sense.

With all due respect, it's spelled Commodore, not Commode !

Also, it's not a 'Chinese Opel', it's a German Opel and by all reports so far, not such a bad car.

BTW I think that GM have worked out by now had 'bogans' don't actually buy new cars at all. Funny that !!

Why are so many Aussies so negative ??

Dr Terry

music189 · 13-09-2016, 06:49 PM

Ford wants to move the archives f
To USA so all that stuff will be lost unless we make a lot of noise about it

FalconXV · 10-09-2017, 05:29 PM

As our automotive industry grinds to a halt, I thought it would be cool to start a thread about the prototypes that didn't make it. ( Tried to upload some photos from Pinterest but I am not savvy enough).

From Holden's WA Kingswood, Torana GTR-X and liftbacks/ wagons, to the Mk2 Cortina fastback, project Capricorn, VN MPV wagon, maybe even the Australian developed prototypes for locally made 2016-2022 Holdens ( a closely guarded secret I bet), to diesel Barra, IRS equipped EF and FG Fairlane or wagon- has anyone seen some cool prototypes? Maybe you have a family member who worked in product development or assembly who saw or knows about something? If you have any relatives who worked in the industry, please ask them questions.

With Ford having sent all of its minutes and archives to Detroit, all we can rely on are anecdotal evidence and prototype pics, so if we could get a thread about the history of not just Ford, but Chrysler, Toyota, Mitsubishi and any Australian prototypes that would be cool.

If this gets enough interesting content/answers maybe it can become a sticky?

FalconXV · 10-09-2017, 05:47 PM

Here are two pretty cool sources:

https://forums.justcommodores.com.au...actory.250800/

https://au.pinterest.com/pin/325244404322060429/

FalconXV · 10-09-2017, 05:55 PM

Quote:

In fact, personal watercraft and small motorcycles and scooters represent the biggest growth potential for Orbital and its two-stroke engine technology, Schlunke said. Orbital is also preparing to equip 100 Ford Festivas in Australia with a 1.2-liter, three-cylinder, two-stroke engine in a project it has dubbed Genesis. The vehicles will be put into service this spring.

http://www.autonews.com/article/1996...stroke-engines

**GasoLane** · 10-09-2017, 06:15 PM

Threads merged.

FalconXV · 10-09-2017, 05:29 PM

I'm guessing the archives have been sent back to Dearborn, so it's hard to imagine any juicy secrets could emerge, but maybe someone who used to work in PD has some cool info?

383hq · 10-09-2017, 06:30 PM

Comes with the small population, barriers to global competitiveness, and shift to international competition etc etc

Corvette Mueseum and Ford Museum are both great examples of what's possible when you have economies of scale afforded by 300m people.

It was nice to see Ford decide to manufacture in USA instead of Mexhico after Trump intervened recently (if you're in the car industry) but potential higher prices may not be as attractive if you're not...

mwb235 · 10-09-2017, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Now that Ford is closing, do you think they'll reveal any information about secret prototypes ( such as EF with semi-trailing arm IRS, 4.0 diesel and direct injection engines and/or show us the abandoned FG Fairlane/ wagon proposals?

Itching to see them because I know they exist. We saw that stillborn Capricorn POS and the abandoned Kingswood (HA?) that never got built. Hoping we get to see them.

It'd be nice to be able to travel to an alternate timeline where the Falcon wasn't culled, just to see what the FG-Y/FH/Whatever after FG-X would have looked like...

FalconXV · 10-09-2017, 10:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwb235

It'd be nice to be able to travel to an alternate timeline where the Falcon wasn't culled, just to see what the FG-Y/FH/Whatever after FG-X would have looked like...

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-featur...26-groyrc.html

mwb235 · 10-09-2017, 10:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

http://www.drive.com.au/motor-featur...26-groyrc.html

Let's hope by 2026 the Falcon is resurrected! I know it's unlikely, and even if it was it wouldn't have a V8 and a petrol engine. We can dream about what could have been but, no harm in that.

malazn mafia · 11-09-2017, 12:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwb235

Let's hope by 2026 the Falcon is resurrected! I know it's unlikely, and even if it was it wouldn't have a V8 and a petrol engine. We can dream about what could have been but, no harm in that.

Does Ford still hold on to the naming rights for Falcon , after production has ceased ? And does the design of the FG-X Falcon still remain the IP of Ford ?

Bossxr8 · 11-09-2017, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Does Ford still hold on to the naming rights for Falcon , after production has ceased ? And does the design of the FG-X Falcon still remain the IP of Ford ?

Of course. Do you think they would let a competitor call their car Falcon.

**solarite_guy** · 11-09-2017, 12:09 AM

If there is a Falcon then, what sort of motivation would you anticipate it having?

FalconXV · 15-06-2024, 02:08 PM

Thread mining here, to see if anyone knows of any prototype falcons for export, four-cylinder, pre-BA IRS etc. I saw a thread on facebook with an EA-era L6, with Mazda-inspired DOHC heads the otherday.

**DFB FGXR6** · 15-06-2024, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

Thread mining here, to see if anyone knows of any prototype falcons for export, four-cylinder, pre-BA IRS etc. I saw a thread on facebook with an EA-era L6, with Mazda-inspired DOHC heads the otherday.

Despite being built in 1987, its interesting to note this engine is fitted with an EF intake manifold. I'm not sure if that was added later for presentation purposes, or if it was being developed in tandem with the twin cam head and eventually made an appearance in 1994 for the EF update.

Citroënbender · 15-06-2024, 07:53 PM

Top half of the fanimold has a WR2A prefix. That’s AU era.

**DFB FGXR6** · 15-06-2024, 09:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Top half of the fanimold has a WR2A prefix. That’s AU era.

In which case, I would say it was added for display purposes. I would also suggest that exhaust manifold cover looks to be an AU part as well. This engine was displayed upstairs at the Ford Discovery Center when it was still open.

Franco Cozzo · 16-06-2024, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

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Despite being built in 1987, its interesting to note this engine is fitted with an EF intake manifold. I'm not sure if that was added later for presentation purposes, or if it was being developed in tandem with the twin cam head and eventually made an appearance in 1994 for the EF update.

There's a camshaft position sensor on one of the cams too, you can see it in the timing cover - must have been thinking about sequential injection and ignition in the 1980s?

The Buick V6 in the Grand National had sequential fuel injection back in that era, not sure if the Buick/Ecotec Commodores do or not.

Sequential injection made its way onto the AU - under 3000 RPM I think due to lack of processing power - I think I'm not 100% sure.

**aussiblue** · 15-06-2024, 06:55 PM

Not an FG series, but I still own and have registered and insured my ex Ford prototype 1989 NB Fairlane. It runs perfectly fine but now has some rust in the bootlid and little on leading edge of the roof, needs a paint job and the AC needs a regas,. If anyone is seriously interested in buying it at something more than the value of it remaining months of rego send me a private message me. I would like to see it with someone who appreciates it and perhaps has the interest and time to do a full restoration.

It had the 1st 4 speed BTR transmission fitted to an Australian made Ford and was made in August 1989 months before the 4 speed transmission was officially released. Originally it had an odd ECU chip (since replaced when it died) that identified itself as from a 6 cylinder T-Bird and evidence (remaining but disconnected air lines ending above each front shock tower) that, unless they were for some sort of testing device for the trans) it is likely, like many US models, may also have once had self-levelling suspension fitted at the front as well as the rear.

Every part of the car including the plastic hub caps on the mags was marked "MV-1" with beige paint. It also has a unique hose with flared ends where the normal heater tube from the thermostat is on the passenger's side of the head under the PFEI manifold. It has a chromed version of the NA grill that I have seen on one other later Fairlane.

It was always registered as a NB Fairlane and was originally owned and registered to Ford Australia and it owner's handbook servicing was pages stamped by "Ford New Product Engineering". My Fairlane has a mix of NA, NA II and NC partsa nd all its parts (from the computer module to the fan to the plastic hubcaps on the mags) are labelled in beige paint "MV-1" and although made in June 1989 (before the 4 speed autos were officially 1st produced in August 1989) it has a factory 4 speed (and the VIN plate has the "W" 4 speed auto code). I have also found that the tie rod ends are from and pre E series model It originally some different arrangement of solenoids in the 4 speed auto (vertical instead of horizontal - obviously was also a prototype gearbox) but the company that was meant to overhaul that gearbox nicked it after showing me the differences; they fitted a later series transmission and refused to give me the old one back. There were/are minor differences like different fusible links, some NC parts (I think likely fitted post production) and other very minor things I find from time to time.

Most interesting perhaps was when I had to rebuild the 3.9 motor I discovered it has slightly different size crank, con rods and the related bearings (I suspect it is stroked to 4 Litres as it also has EXP-4.0 stamped on the front of head near the 3.9 L casting). ACL had 100 sets of the required bearings when I got replacements from them (I now realise should have bought a few more sets while they were still available) .

When I wrote to DOCAT the, Commonwealth Department that issue compliance plates, soon after I got the car and, the then grouchy parts guy at Titan Ford, refused to believe there had an NB or even talk about parts for it, they wrote and told me it was an actually an illegal compliance plate. They advised as the NB model designation l was not approved for any production vehicles it was an illegal plater (prototypes only) and that accordingly state registration authorities could refuse to register it (that thankfully has never been an issue).

I emailed the Discovery Centre and Discovery Girl's colleague the late departed Adrian Ryan who looked into it and is emphatic there were no NB Fairlanes. He said: "As I have said - there is no record of your particular car. Lots of strange things happen to cars during the pre-production builds and product development. You must realise that we are talking about a car that was possibly changed several times during the development phase. I have no further explanations for you - sorry"

He also said: "As I said earlier, the only real surprise is that one of these vehicles got sold to the public as it doesn't comply with what Ford was advertising for sale at the time!"

I got a similar telephone reply from some at Ford when I first bought the car in 1994 and noted Ford dealers said there was no such car when I tried to buy parts. When I first contacted Ford then by phone, they said that VIN number wasn't on their computer system. I thought I might have got stolen renumbered car but at that time Ford rang me back a few days later and said something like "as it had been mostly built by new products engineering, rather than on the assembly line, and hadn't been entered on the system (but they also said they would add it then). " They also told me that I would have no problems with parts as it simply had a mix of NA, NA II and NC parts (they were right about that parts buying parts can be a lottery for some bits) - essentially giving me an assurance that I need not worry about the integrity of the car or getting parts.

There was an engineer at Ford then that contacted me shortly and said he was familiar with the car and wanted to know how it was going; I wished I had taken his name but at the time was at the assuming it was probably one of several NBs' and not realising until some year later it was a one off. Apparently, according to the engineer, during an around Australia test drive it had blow a head gasket and had been left at Sun City Ford in Geraldton. I was then sold off when Ford were talking about leaving OZ in the early 80's and Sun City Ford were instructed to sell it. It was owned by a hardware store owner in Geraldton before he traded it in and subsequently bought it from John Hughes used car dealership in Victoria Park.

It seems that according to some at Ford my car doesn't exist or more likely they simply don't want to acknowledge it does. You have to think the NA II was going to be an NB model at some point as the Ford mag wheel identification poster you find at your Ford dealers parts counter shows wheel labelled "NB Fairlane" and another "NB Sportsman."

Ford offered to buy the car back from me a few years after I acquired it when it blew a head gasket after they sold me a normal thermostat rather than the required duel action thermostat insisting it would be OK and I took Ford to arbitration. It seems that by then Ford clearly didn't want the car on the streets or in public hand, but they were only willing to pay me less than market price for an NA in similar condition. They then offered to replace the VIN plate and make the vehicle fully compliant; I of course also rejected that offer. All these offer were by phone call through there Northern suburbs Ford owned dealership. They were also unwilling to give me any written advice regarding the car; not surprising I guess given the DOCAT advice on its legality.

Titan Ford had also said that they have found some annotations on Ford computerised parts catalogue systems referring to a NB Fairlane and that how they got me the replacement heater bypass hose when I needed one. They have also said it's the only Fairlane they have seen with NB on the compliance plate and to their knowledge and from what very few things Ford reps were prepared to discuss, it was a one off that Ford would rather not know about.

When I insured it for the first time with the RAC they said that they thought that Ford had sold a number of similar development cars in WA at the same time (1993). The handbook shows Ford had the car from 1989 to 1992 (well it was serviced by Ford Products Engineering up to May 1992). It also appears to have been re-trimmed before sale as all brown velour upholstery carries a 1992 stamp.

Photo of VIN plate here: http://www.fordforums.com.au/photos/...hp/photo/75452

According to Polyal in this thread https://fordforums.com.au/showthread...ht=NB+Fairlane there was also a workshop manual for the NB Fairlane; wish I had a copy.

XR Martin · 15-06-2024, 10:03 PM

Wheels mag did have a pic of an EF prototype with a twin cam engine very similar to the one above.

Oh the engine has an AU sump too.

FalconXV · 16-06-2024, 04:13 PM

I read in my Ford book there was a 2.3 Lima engined XD prototype but too gutless so it was shelved. Did Ford ever consider going down the Asia export route with smaller engines like Holden did with the C20E, 2.6 dual ram and 2.5 V6 ?

**Captain Stubing** · 16-06-2024, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FalconXV

I read in my Ford book there was a 2.3 Lima engined XD prototype but too gutless so it was shelved. Did Ford ever consider going down the Asia export route with smaller engines like Holden did with the C20E, 2.6 dual ram and 2.5 V6 ?

Would this be the same engine that made it to the 4cyl Mustangs, but in the turbo version? It's also in a few Rangers from the 80's and the XR4Ti's.