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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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12-08-2010, 03:37 PM | #1 | ||
Classy Redneck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South East Queensland
Posts: 80
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I wouldn't trade my Fairlane for the world, even if it's not the prettiest thing to look at, I love it to bits.
As for safety regulations, I would rather be in a severe crash in my car than any modern hatch-back. I guarantee the hatch would come off second-best in any scenario. |
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12-08-2010, 03:44 PM | #3 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 531
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Click here |
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12-08-2010, 05:47 PM | #4 | |||
71Mach1
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melb
Posts: 465
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I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it...
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roses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you |
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16-08-2010, 12:39 AM | #5 | |||
I was correct - AGAIN
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Third rock from the sun
Posts: 1,801
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12-08-2010, 03:51 PM | #6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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12-08-2010, 04:53 PM | #7 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
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And why would he do that? Oh thats right the Hatch back would be a writeoff................ I don't particulary care for your graphic depiction of events but I certainly would not be dismissing the claim until the type of hatch back (eg Golf or Kia) was determined. I don't get too hyped up about 5 star safety as most people think if their little Cruze has five stars and hits a 5 star or 4 star 2.2 tonne SUV like the Audi Q7 they would have the same survival rates in a head on -I know which one I'd rather be in. |
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12-08-2010, 06:04 PM | #8 | |||
Thailand Specials
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Centrefold Lounge
Posts: 49,389
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13-08-2010, 10:51 AM | #9 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 179
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12-08-2010, 03:55 PM | #10 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 436
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12-08-2010, 04:07 PM | #11 | ||
Classy Redneck
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: South East Queensland
Posts: 80
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That Bel-Air is almost 30 years older than my car, and getting hit by an SUV.
My original point stands of wanting to be in my car rather than a hatch-back. |
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12-08-2010, 04:48 PM | #12 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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When you crash there is a huge amount of energy that must be dissipated. In your fairlane the structure is rigid so therefore the energy is released over a short period. In a bubblemobile the collapsing frame slows the energy release. You are basicly a big blob of water with some skin on the outside and you slow down and release your energy at the same speed as the car (or you go through the windscreen). The faster the energy release the more deformation on the soft bit (YOU) I bought a 1977 Falcon new and drove 250,000 km in it. You are not old enough to remember the horrors of road smashes in the 70s. The road toll now is very low compared to then despite there being hundreds of times more cars on the road and hundreds of times more crashes. More crashes, less deaths and despite political opinion it is not speed cameras doing it. |
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12-08-2010, 05:40 PM | #13 | |||
Constant annoyance
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 567
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the car with more mass will have less resultant acceleration from the same force (f=m.a) therefore if both vehicles receive the same force, the heavier fairlane will have less acceleration which means less change of velocity. For example if the fairlane weighs close to 2 tonnes, and the hatchback weighs closer to 1 tonne, the hatchback will have twice the acceleration on it than the fairlane. This means less risk of injury. Haven't you wondered why four wheel drives when they crash with a smaller vehicle, the driver walks away while the smaller car is obliterated. The same goes for a truck versus car. I fail to see where you get your information on the collapsibility of a fairlane versus a hatchback. You'll find a fairlane has much larger crumple zones than almost any hatch.
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GT Club - no longer for ford enthusiasts, now for fat old men who need air con and power steering for the maccas drive through. |
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12-08-2010, 06:04 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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12-08-2010, 05:59 PM | #15 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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12-08-2010, 04:09 PM | #16 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 436
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Here is another new vs old crash test: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emtLLvXrrFs with an "old" car newer then yours.
back on topic: IMO the cash for clunkers things is just a poorly thought out waste of money though there is merit in getting the some of the older cars off the road. |
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15-08-2010, 11:13 PM | #17 | |||
Ich bin ein auslander
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Loving the Endorphine Machine
Posts: 7,453
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I have watched the impact and the scenes of the passenger cells a number of times and some things need to be pointed out. Notice the door of the volvo, that passenger cell is now considerably shorter than it used to be as evidenced by the crumpling of the door skin and the kink in the roof behind the B pillar. That driver now has both of his femurs shattered as his knees got punched into the dash (you can see this as his knees are still inside the dash). The femur is capable of loosing up to 2L of blood into the tissues around it, break both and you may have 2/3 of your blood volume missing, a fatal injury. The renault door is intact and the roof line is not kinked showing there has been minimal shortening of the passenger cell. When you look at the foot well and dash there is almost no evidence of impact from the drivers knees. In the video of the crash you will notice the driver of the volvo moves forward a considerable amount even though they are restrained, resulting in an impact with the steering wheel. The renault does not do this as it is highly likely it is fitted with seat belt pre-tensioners, more effectively holding the occupant in the seat. Evidence of this can be seen in the interiors of both cars, the volvo has a deformed lower section of the steering wheel as a result of the driver hitting it with great force on their chest. This driver would without doubt have a collapsed lung or two and most likely a tension pneumothorax (a severe increase in pressure in the chest that leads to cardiac arrest in seconds). The driver of the volvo may also have suffered an aortic transection, which is a deceleration injury where the aorta rips off the top of the heart which always leads to death (yes always, no one has survived this injury to my knowledge or in any of the literature I have studied). This is all without considering you can bet that the liver, pancreas and spleen have all been damaged, leading to massive internal haemorrhage, there goes the remaining 2L of blood. The impact on the wheel would also have caused enough force on the neck and head to result in a significant neck injury. If you watch the driver of the volvo, the face hits the steering wheel top, result of that would be massive brain injuries as well as facial fractures that in themselves can give life threatening airway obstructions. The renault driver will have considerable bruising from the seat belt but because there was no impact with the steering wheel (no deformation of the wheel), they will be sore but alive. Extrication of the two drivers will be vastly different. The volvo will require a A and B pillar cut and roof peel with a dash roll, which all takes time (about 5 minutes with a good fire crew, try holding your breath for 5 minutes). This driver does not have time and would likely be in cardiac arrest as emergency crews arrive. Due to the time to remove the patient and delay to resuscitation, the chance of survival would be less than 1% (we could not apply any worthwhile resuscitation in the vehicle). The renault passenger would require no vehicle cutting to remove, we could slide them out with full spinal precautions just bending that door back. The renault drivers chance of survival is excellent, I highly doubt they would even get a hospital stay overnight, just a few hours observation in the ED. The end result of that crash would without doubt be a dead volvo driver and a renault driver with minor to moderate injuries. Trust me, I have a lot of training and real life experience in assessing vehicle damage and calculating what the likely occupant injury patterns are.
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12-08-2010, 05:34 PM | #18 | |||
Constant annoyance
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 567
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I don't think you realise the level of pollution that comes from producing new vehicles, and I'm not limiting my definition of pollution to carbon dioxide like a lot of "leading scientists". You'll find that in many cases, and certainly for family size cars such as commodores and falcons, the pollution created in manufacturing all of the plastics, energy costs in welding + refining + moulding steel; is much more than the emissions saving in driving that car for 15 years instead of driving a car from 20 years prior. In all but the most extreme cases you will actually cause less harm to the planet simply by maintaining an older vehicle rather than purchasing new vehicles and having your old one sent to landfill (which is where all the plastics will go, even if the steel is recycled). But we live in a consumer society where fear reigns supreme, we all apparently want new shiny crap instead of getting our hands dirty. And a lot of people still somehow believe having a 5 star safety rated car will save their children when they act like idiots. The problem isn't the motor vehicle, its the idiot. When it comes to solving safety hazards the best option is to remove the source of the hazard - which isn't the power or safety features of a car, its the one behind the wheel that causes ALL the problems. "somebody think of the children!"
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GT Club - no longer for ford enthusiasts, now for fat old men who need air con and power steering for the maccas drive through. |
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12-08-2010, 06:22 PM | #20 | |||
Constant annoyance
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 567
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Quote:
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GT Club - no longer for ford enthusiasts, now for fat old men who need air con and power steering for the maccas drive through. |
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12-08-2010, 08:47 PM | #21 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 306
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5 star buzz box bounce of my lpg guzzling, to big for parking lots politically incorrect,no way would i part with it for a lousy 2grand F150.buzz box stays i drive away.
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13-08-2010, 04:23 PM | #22 | |||
71Mach1
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Melb
Posts: 465
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the conclusion without a shadow of a doubt is that the heavier the vehicle you are in, the more chance of surviving... Newtons second law wins every time...
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roses are #FF0000 violets are #0000FF all my base are belong to you |
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12-08-2010, 08:08 PM | #23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Perth
Posts: 904
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RIDES 76 ZH Fairlane 500, Mushroom Beige, Brown vinyl roof, 351 c4 13.361 @ 104mph 2.001 60ft 208rwkw ZH BUILD |
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12-08-2010, 08:25 PM | #24 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 11,647
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I watched a doco on where they crash tested cars from the 60's and cars from the modern era. People may think they are safe in their good old solid cars from the 70's, buit I'd sooner be in a new car. The bit I like was to do with the dash and the steering column. In the old car the steering didn't collapse, it became a spear and the drivers head became impailed. The dash in the old car bent in towards the cabin and split so it formed a wedge slicing open the occupants head when it collided with the dash. The old cars did not have seat belts.
I'll take my modern car any day. Crumple zones, airbags an safety cell compared to a metal cofin. People are dillusional if they think they'd sooner be in a an accident in a car built in the 60's and 70's when modern technology and advances in safety have saved lives in our new cars.
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FG2 XR6T KIA Cerato 2022 Kawasaki Z900
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12-08-2010, 11:22 PM | #25 | |||
Constant annoyance
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Japan
Posts: 567
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You'll find most people who own these cars have fitted seatbelts, collapsible steering columns, radial tyres and other various safety features. If you think they're still driving around running on motor spirit with a fellow waving a red flag in front of them you're more likely "delusional"
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GT Club - no longer for ford enthusiasts, now for fat old men who need air con and power steering for the maccas drive through. |
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13-08-2010, 09:33 AM | #26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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A few years ago I chose to: Hunt with a semi auto rifle. Camp and make a fire on a public beach. Drink beer on a beach or in a park. Ride unrigestered motorcycles in forestry and on crown land. Fish anywhere I felt like it. Build a shed on my property without filling out 1000 forms waithing 6 months for permission. Work on my car in the street. Advertise my car for sale on my footpath. Drive at 200km/h on public roads (legally). Drive with a BAC of 0.079 (legally) Drive with a BAC of 0.149 (legally) etc. etc. Can't do any of this now. Do gooders have saved me from it..... Now if anyone thinks any of the above are wrong and it is a good thing that they are all illegal now just remember there are lots of people out there who think that performance vehicles and old cars are a danger on the road and should be banned. If you think that banning the above is right how can they not also be right........ |
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13-08-2010, 09:52 AM | #27 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Location: The Shakey Isles
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13-08-2010, 11:15 AM | #28 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Posts: 2,312
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My ride: 2007 Falcon Ute BF XR8 Orange, MTO. |
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13-08-2010, 12:03 PM | #29 | |||
Moderator Ford Coupe Club
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Vic
Posts: 3,905
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1) The owner of said Mazda 323, even with the "clunker" rebate may not be able to afford one of the cars that subsidy would apply to and 2) Such a law could also put my Coupe off the road. What we need is for the Police and EPA being more vigilant on ensuring the clunkers are fit to be on the road and ease up on the enthusiast. Will it happen? Only if Governments can make money out of it.
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Mitsubishi ASX Auto, White - Daily Commuter XC Fairmont Coupe, 351 4spd, Graphite Grey - The Antidote http://www.fordcoupeclub.org "If you don't know where you're going, any road will take you there" George Harrison 2001. |
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13-08-2010, 02:33 PM | #30 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Bundaberg
Posts: 604
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Scary crap here..... NOTHING IS SAFE!
http://www.greencarreports.com/blog/...er-disables-it http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JmvkL...eature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jiORh...eature=related |
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