Insurance dispute - advice please

[stace650]

Hi fellow Ford freaks,

I just got my GT back from the panel beaters after a front end shunt and since I have got it back I have noticed several things. The front bumper is warped along the grille edge, the paint has imperfections, the decals have air bubbles and the headlight is still broken.

I have spoken to the smash repairer who says he will arrange a meeting with my insurance company and me.

My question... What if the assessor says the imperfections are acceptable? Surely it's not in the insurer's best interest to order a new bumper. They also might say I'm being picky. Do I have any recourse?

Cheers,
Stace

[FGII-XR6]

you have a right to have the car restored to the condition it was in prior to the accident

[BadMax]

The car should be repaired to 'pre accident condition'. The correct course of action is for the original repairer to have 'first right of rectification'. If this doesn't resolve the issue, you then have the right to move the car to your choice of repairer.

Looking at your signature, I presume it's a BA GT? If it is, the car would very unlikely have been fitted with a brand new bumper due to it's age. It would more than likely have a reconditioned bumper which are generally horrible but insurers insist on them to save costs.
It will never be as good as a brand new bumper, but you have very little choice in the matter. In saying that, it probably is now in better condition than a 10 year old front bumper.
The decals should be fixed as well as the headlight.

You shouldn't have any problems. What insurer?

[stace650]

RAC. The smash repairer says he got the bumper from Ford. I have yet to see the invoice. I'll be asking to see it when I go back with the insurance assessor.

I agree that I'll probably be stuck with the bad bumper. But it's horrible! If it was easier to post pics here I'd put one up.

Bloody shame. It detracts from the whole car for me.

[GQ_Smooth]

Do you have any photo's of your car prior to the accident? What is the overall condition of your car that wasn't involved in the accident. If the rest of the car is "mint" you have a strong case, if the remainder of your cars is scratched, dented you may struggle to get what you want.

What insurer are you with (makes a big difference)?

[stace650]

I'm with the RAC. Yes, I have lots of pics. The car was mint, even the smash repairer commented on it. Luckily I have a photo of the exact area that's now warped, and it's perfect before the crash... And the pic was taken after the crash when the car was still damaged!

[BadMax]

Bare in mind, it's not up to the repairer as to the bar being new or reco. If he has charged for new and used a reco, that's an issue between him and the assessor.

[xisled]

Speak to repairer, then speak to insurance company, get car assessed, If fixed great end of problem.

If not fixed and the assessor said it is ok, speak to the assessing Team Leader/Supervisor, if no luck with them, then ask for the assessing Manager, if no luck with this person, go to the IDR (Internal dispute resolution service), if still no luck then the ombudsman.

You basically have many options if you are not happy, but you will not be able to jump straight up to a manager you will have to talk to each person at each level.

[poppa smurf]

I received a new bumper for mine, turned out it would have been more costly to use a used one.....as others have said... "pre crash" condition, anything else is not acceptable.

[fordomatic]

I've had good results with insurance companys over stuff like this. My old BAXR8 got keyed and they failed to do a decent match on colour. It was a very good spray job, but very noticeable colour difference. The insurance company made the smash repairer paint the whole car, it wasn't at the standard it was before it got keyed.

[stace650]

So the insurance company says to take it back for a new bumper. They also said they don't know what the new bumper would be like, as the replacement was a genuine part and it was sub standard. They did agree that it was unacceptable though. See what happens I guess..

[Auslandau]

Originally Posted by stace650

So the insurance company says to take it back for a new bumper. They also said they don't know what the new bumper would be like, as the replacement was a genuine part and it was sub standard. They did agree that it was unacceptable though. See what happens I guess..

Well at least they said it was unacceptable. Sounds like all is in the process of being rectified. I have a few not up to par insurance repairs but never had a problem with things being fixed. The insurer will usually back the customer as it is in their interest to do so. They pay the shop to do the job once and what happens after that they should be helpful. After all, they want you to continue sending them money!

Hope it all works out.

[The FOMOCO]

They sound like real pros air bubbles under the stickers, shrinkage or sh.t in the paint maybe both.Broken headlight assembly.You definatly don't have to accept bad workmanship and misaligned bumper . Is the place called third world crash repairs or something??. If the meeting with the repairer and assessor goes bad have the car moved to another shop and stop being the nice guy until you get satisfaction with the insurance company..... good luck

[fte50]

First & foremost create a list of defects in writing and back it up with photos.

It would be wise to get an opinion from another quality repairer with them seeing the car, and if they agree workmanship is no good obtain a quote to rectify all areas needing attention.

Contact your ins co. and explain the concerns etc. Irrespective on how they respond to your claim, at the end hit them with the 2nd repairers findings/opinions/costs.
Let ins. co advise and take it from there, but your workmanship must be warranted.
Furthermore, you are entitled to a new bar and not used unless no longer available from Ford, but they will ALWAYS deny you if your repairers a sausage shop and neither of you push for it.

STICK TO YOUR GUNS AND GO EM HARD
ps - where are you located ?

[stace650]

Originally Posted by fte50

STICK TO YOUR GUNS AND GO EM HARD
ps - where are you located ?

Perth northern suburbs...

Thanks for the advice. I'm going hard!

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by fte50

Furthermore, you are entitled to a new bar and not used unless no longer available from Ford

This statement is not entirely true, you are entitled to what is disclosed in your PDS which many people fail to read, but tick that annoying little box when taking out a policy.

The general rule of thumb is; within manufacturers warranty period, new genuine parts will be fitted, this does not included extended warranties.

The repairer must uphold a three year statutory warranty, if a lifetime warranty is offered, the responsibility is held by the insurer.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by fte50

Furthermore, you are entitled to a new bar and not used unless no longer available from Ford, but they will ALWAYS deny you if your repairers a sausage shop and neither of you push for it.
?

False.


Its the insurance companies (and assessors) that determine what parts get used on the car, a repairer can fight the company/assessor and stipulate a new one.

Its fairly common for the insurers to ask for used (or exchanged) parts to be implemented, purely to keep the cost of the job down...and "support automotive wreckers"


Some shops don't like this though...as by the time you add the transport, extra repair costs etc...a new part is quite often just as cheap.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by stace650

Hi fellow Ford freaks,

I just got my GT back from the panel beaters after a front end shunt and since I have got it back I have noticed several things. The front bumper is warped along the grille edge, the paint has imperfections, the decals have air bubbles and the headlight is still broken.

I have spoken to the smash repairer who says he will arrange a meeting with my insurance company and me.

My question... What if the assessor says the imperfections are acceptable? Surely it's not in the insurer's best interest to order a new bumper. They also might say I'm being picky. Do I have any recourse?

Cheers,
Stace

Ask them to fix it.

Ask them twice if not satisfied.

Now call the insurance company, don't waste time with the repairer anymore.

Use the dreaded "O" word to the insurance company...(Ombudsman)

Watch it all unfold...it's a $550 per interaction fee to the insurance company for consumer complaints that have gone through the above process.

If it takes 3-4-5 interactions (which may be phone calls/emails/etc) then it gets expensive and they know it.

Best thing that ever happened to consumers.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by zilo

Ask them to fix it.

Ask them twice if not satisfied.

Now call the insurance company, don't waste time with the repairer anymore.

Use the dreaded "O" word to the insurance company...(Ombudsman)

Watch it all unfold...it's a $550 per interaction fee to the insurance company for consumer complaints that have gone through the above process.

If it takes 3-4-5 interactions (which may be phone calls/emails/etc) then it gets expensive and they know it.

Best thing that ever happened to consumers.

Insurance companies do not care if you use the "O word". The ombudsman will not even look at it, unless you have gone through the IDR process within the insurance company. If you were not happy with the insurance company decision and you went straight to the Ombudsman, they will refer you straight back to the insurance company. Once the customer has gone through the IDR, the Ombudsman will request a copy of the paperwork and the outcome of the IDR. When I was working in claims and someone said they were not happy with my decision. I told them to what they can do, if they were not happy with the decision including going to the Ombudsman.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by xisled

Insurance companies do not care if you use the "O word". The ombudsman will not even look at it, unless you have gone through the IDR process within the insurance company. If you were not happy with the insurance company decision and you went straight to the Ombudsman, they will refer you straight back to the insurance company. Once the customer has gone through the IDR, the Ombudsman will request a copy of the paperwork and the outcome of the IDR. When I was working in claims and someone said they were not happy with my decision. I told them to what they can do, if they were not happy with the decision including going to the Ombudsman.

Sorry to hear that you don't like what I posted.
But you seem to think your employers are in full control of the entire consumer rights process.
Fortunately that is not the case and what you have posted is innacurate.

[xisled]

Originally Posted by zilo

Sorry to hear that you don't like what I posted.
But you seem to think your employers are in full control of the entire consumer rights process.
Fortunately that is not the case and what you have posted is innacurate.

I don’t work in the industry currently. I never said they are in control. I said the Ombudsman will not take on a case unless it has been reviewed by the IDR process of the insurance company.

Basically if you raise a dispute the insurance, the insurance company has 45 days to resolve it before it goes to the FOS. By the 45 days, it will have been reviewed by the IDR service. If it isn’t, then they will only register a complaint and wait for the IDR to complete the review.

http://www.fos.org.au/centric/home_p..._a_dispute.jsp

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by xisled

Basically if you raise a dispute the insurance, the insurance company has 45 days to resolve it before it goes to the FOS. By the 45 days, it will have been reviewed by the IDR service. If it isn’t, then they will only register a complaint and wait for the IDR to complete the review.

5 or 15 days depending on when the dispute is lodged

[BadMax]

You know what's funny about the IDR process. The insurer does not have to disclose any information or real findings, an 'external audit' by and 'independent auditor' is all paid by the insurer...How independent is that?

[xisled]

Originally Posted by BadMax

You know what's funny about the IDR process. The insurer does not have to disclose any information or real findings, an 'external audit' by and 'independent auditor' is all paid by the insurer...How independent is that?

LOL so true.

[Nikked]

Those FPV bars are shocking even as new parts, so im surprised about the warp.

[EASYBOSS]

Here are some pic's uploaded for Stace

Damage



Repair

[cobramania]

Interesting Pics.

That warp could be in the bar, from how it was stacked when stored?
But it also looks as though it could be from the bar not being fitted correctly, with the centre of the bar being held out too far forward, & the sides being pulled in, & it's physically bending the bar in the centre behind the number plate?

The grill may actually be bent out of shape too if you look closely?
The top of the grill won't show the bend as it's a separate piece.

It's a plastic bar & it'll flex like that if it's pulled/bent out of shape from non correct fitment.

Not good workmanship either way, but it may be from the repair shop, not faulty part manufacture from Ford?

Hope you get it all fixed to satisfaction.

[2011G6E]

Ah. you're being too damn picky...it's just a car isn't it?

Those are the very words I heard from a panel beater who put a new rear hatch on my mothers 1996 Mazda Metro. Someone had backed into her, and then drove off.
I drove her over to pick up the car from the panel beater that the insurer told her to take it to, and straight away noticed the "M" badge wasn't on the boot...the replacement hatch didn't come with a badge, it had to be ordered separately. And they didn't. I also noticed the glass was grimy...not just "dusty", but greasy-handprint grimy.
When I complained, I got told what I wrote above. My elderly mother was a little intimidated I think, and wanted to just let it go..."it's been fixed hasn't it?". I said "wait here...", and I rang the insurance company and complained...loud, long, and profane.
They said they would take care of things. A week later, it went to another panel beater, who put on the badge, realigned the hatch properly (it hadn't been fitted quite evenly with odd panel gaps around the edges) and polished the whole car to match the shiny new white hatch.

I heard that the other panel beater lost his contract with the insurer and apparently lost a lot of business once word got around (and I made sure it did...).


Lots of people think like this though..."it's just a car...".

[BadMax]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

I heard that the other panel beater lost his contract with the insurer and apparently lost a lot of business once word got around (and I made sure it did...).

Wow dude, cool story. I guess it's pretty funny watching normal every day people lose their jobs, maybe even the roof over their heads...over something that may have been easily resolved.

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by BadMax

Wow dude, cool story. I guess it's pretty funny watching normal every day people lose their jobs, maybe even the roof over their heads...over something that may have been easily resolved.

If they did their job correctly the story would never have happened....

I had a prang in the Festiva and when I collected it there were some very obvious flaws in their 'workmanship'...

His reply "It's only a Festiva mate"... yeah, great attitude that. And that was the bloke who ran the joint.