list of Learner approved motorcycles?

Kryton · 29-08-2005, 08:09 PM

anyone know where i can find a list of Learner Approved Motorcycles for victoria?
ive had a look through Google and Vicroads website but couldnt find anything about what motorcycles learners cannot ride.
the reason im want to find out is that i have come across a motorcycle manufacturer that has released a series of bikes that go up to 650cc that have been ADR approved for Learners, but all the info i can find about it only points to being legal in NSW. i need to find out if they are accepted in Vic as well.
now before everyone gets on their horse and starts debating that learners cant ride anything above 250cc you need to look here: http://www.hyosungmotors.com.au/ROADBIKES.html
that is the manufacturer. read some of the road tests that have been done and also when your viewing the Specs for the 650cc bikes you will notice a second Spec column that has the model number and then 'L' (eg:GT650R-GT650RL) that is the Learner Approved Version of the bike. and yes this is for Australia too.
anyway where can i find out if Vic will allow these Learner Approved Bikes to be riden by learners?

merlin · 29-08-2005, 08:13 PM

Cant help with the Vic rules but read plenty of reviews on those Hyosong 650 learner legal bikes and they are supposed to be a good bit of kit - They have a restrictor in the carbie which makes it learner legal - but can be removed to almost double the horsepower. Of course this would not be advisable for a learner...

Guaranteed to get an answer here:http://www.overclockers.com.au/mc/forums/

Kryton · 29-08-2005, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

They have a restrictor in the carbie which makes it learner legal - but can be removed to almost double the horsepower.

i read that bit in one of the reviews. cost $140 or $160 to make it back into a 650cc.
anyway the point (for me) isnt really to do this, its more that i dont really have to buy a new bike when i get off my L's/P's. a simple trip down to the workshop and its back to a 650cc.
im actually suprised the government has allowed this, but it really is a good idea.

merlin · 29-08-2005, 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

i read that bit in one of the reviews. cost $140 or $160 to make it back into a 650cc.

Its free if you do it yourself!

Quote:

Originally Posted by davway

anyway the point (for me) isnt really to do this, its more that i dont really have to buy a new bike when i get off my L's/P's. a simple trip down to the workshop and its back to a 650cc.
....

You shouldnt worry about that - its easy to sell a 250 as there is a high market demand for them as all L/P riders need them. The Hyosong will be good but if you want a 600cc size bike and dont like the little size of the 250's - also I imagine it would have more torque than a 250 and thus be easier to ride in traffic.

XplosiveR6 · 30-08-2005, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

Cant help with the Vic rules but read plenty of reviews on those Hyosong 650 learner legal bikes and they are supposed to be a good bit of kit - They have a restrictor in the carbie which makes it learner legal - but can be removed to almost double the horsepower. Of course this would not be advisable for a learner...

Guaranteed to get an answer here:http://www.overclockers.com.au/mc/forums/

my dad has one of those hyosong 650's, im interested, how does a restrictor in the carbie, make it a 250cc, from 600cc? and how is it done?

merlin · 30-08-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EF_Dave

my dad has one of those hyosong 650's, im interested, how does a restrictor in the carbie, make it a 250cc, from 600cc? and how is it done?

It dosn't change the capacity it just restricts the carbies and hence lowers the horse power to make for a "controlable" power to weight ratio for a learner.

Personally I don't know how you take it out but just ask on any of the bike forums - I provided a link in the second post of this thread. I reckon it is as simple as pulling out the carbs, taking them apart, finding the restrictor and chucking it in the bin. Bikes are very easy to work on especially if you have the workshop manual (which are free on the net).

Pilch · 30-08-2005, 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by merlin

It dosn't change the capacity it just restricts the carbies and hence lowers the horse power to make for a "controlable" power to weight ratio for a learner.

Personally I don't know how you take it out but just ask on any of the bike forums - I provided a link in the second post of this thread. I reckon it is as simple as pulling out the carbs, taking them apart, finding the restrictor and chucking it in the bin. Bikes are very easy to work on especially if you have the workshop manual (which are free on the net).

Any idea how this is possible anyway? It sounds like the restrictor is limiting the flow of air and petrol into the cylinder. If you limit a 600cc bike to use appropriate air/fuel ratios for a 250cc engine, how will it be capable of revving without leaning out rediculously??? Or are the bikes also limited to 3000rpm

:

Sox · 30-08-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

Any idea how this is possible anyway? It sounds like the restrictor is limiting the flow of air and petrol into the cylinder. If you limit a 600cc bike to use appropriate air/fuel ratios for a 250cc engine, how will it be capable of revving without leaning out rediculously??? Or are the bikes also limited to 3000rpm

:

Why would it lean out, A/F ratios stays the same.
Carburetors are still able to meter fuel at part throttle at high revs.

Try it yourself, rev your engine to redline with only 1/2 throttle.

Rick.

merlin · 30-08-2005, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

Any idea how this is possible anyway? It sounds like the restrictor is limiting the flow of air and petrol into the cylinder. If you limit a 600cc bike to use appropriate air/fuel ratios for a 250cc engine, how will it be capable of revving without leaning out rediculously??? Or are the bikes also limited to 3000rpm

:

OK I did some reading up on this:

The unrestricted version puts out 58.5kw the restriced version 24.6Kw. The restriction amounts to spacers in the carbs which restrict the movement of the slides. Limiting the throttle slides (and not the ignition or engine management) means that you still get the full performance of the bike until the slide restrictors come into play. The bike effectivley switches off the power once the tacho hits 5800rpm. This means for a learner there is a manageable rev range without having to rev it out to its full 10,500rpm meaning gentle, predictble and smooth power for a learner - incidently the bike still revs to 10,500 but no more power is to be had after 5800rpm. It takes less than 2 minutes to remove the spacers.

PH47 · 29-08-2005, 08:18 PM

Yeh lots of bigger bikes use restrictors now to bring down the power-weight ratio and make them learner legal.

When I was shopping for a learner bike I saw a Ducati 600cc with restrictor.. one hell of a sexy beast to learn on ;) Bit much dosh though for only a year-ish of riding.

Can't help you with vic rules though dude sorry. What's vics version of RTA? Shouldn't they have the list of Learner-Legal bikes like RTA does?

outback_ute · 29-08-2005, 08:27 PM

As far as I know Vic still has the 260cc restriction, with certain race-type 250cc bikes excluded as well

-AL- · 29-08-2005, 08:29 PM

Vicroads make the rules wouldnt that be the first place to start for a 100% correct answers that apply to Victorian riders? As far as I know Victorian Learners are legal on a motorcycle upto 260cc.

Philbie · 29-08-2005, 08:41 PM

250cc is learner legal in victoria - no exceptions.

merlin · 30-08-2005, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philbie

250cc is learner legal in victoria - no exceptions.

I thought some of the 2 strokes were illegal down there (same as NSW) - for instance I am 99% sure that the Suzuki RGV250 is not learner legal in VIC.

ShallowCrossing · 30-08-2005, 04:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philbie

250cc is learner legal in victoria - no exceptions.

Road Safety (Drivers) Regulations 1999 (Victoria)

The holder of a motor cycle licence that has been held for less than 12 months or a motor cycle learner permit must not drive a motor cycle with
an engine capacity exceeding 260 cubic centimetres or drive a motor cycle on which thereis a pillion passenger.

:

There is no power restriction for learner's in Vic so you can happily wipe yourself out on an RGV 250. :ymca:

Kryton · 29-08-2005, 09:14 PM

thanks for all the replies guys.
so it seems that im not the only one that cant find a list of approved motorcycles for victorian learners then?

16wantsI6 · 29-08-2005, 10:04 PM

im sure that accross the nullabor where only allowed up to 50cc on L's?, correct me if im wrong. And also i think where only allowed to ride poofy scooters on our L's aswell?

Pilch · 30-08-2005, 10:26 AM

My understanding is anything up to 260cc limit for L/P platers in Vic, no if's but or maybes. I am not aware of a restriction list, so ANY 260cc or less powered motorcycle can be legally ridden in Vic.

Might explain why you can't find a list ;) There is talk of bringing in an exclusion list though, I believe...

Sox · 30-08-2005, 11:06 AM

Here is the NSW list -
http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/licensing/...iceriders.html

Rick.

PH47 · 30-08-2005, 02:57 PM

I already linked that list dude

Secondly the restrictor is like 2 screws and it's gone.. I don't know the exact details to explain it but when I looked at the restircted Ducati from my earlier post the guy in the shop showed me the restrictor and then told me it's just a few screws and you can do it in a few seconds. *shop will remain unnamed :P*

Sox · 30-08-2005, 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ToasterOn22s

I already linked that list dude

Yeh, I just saw that...

:

Quote:

Secondly the restrictor is like 2 screws and it's gone.. I don't know the exact details to explain it but when I looked at the restircted Ducati from my earlier post the guy in the shop showed me the restrictor and then told me it's just a few screws and you can do it in a few seconds. *shop will remain unnamed :P*

Naming the shop won't be a problem, as it's not illegal to remove the restrictors, it's only illegal for a restricted licence holder to ride them unrestricted.

Rick.

Kryton · 30-08-2005, 03:22 PM

well it seems that us over priviledged Victorians cant ride the LAMS approved 650cc from Hyosung. pity really that the government cant follow the examples set by other forward thinking states.
either way the 250cc still looks good from Hyosung and is a pretty good price second hand. check out the prices they go for: http://www.bikesales.com.au/as/searc...ate=&x=87&y=10
particularly this one: http://www.bikesales.com.au/as/searc...entPage=1&x=87

Pilch · 30-08-2005, 04:35 PM

Thanks Merlin, most informative and is quite a practical idea, but I still don't see how it will continuce to rev beyond 5800rpm when the restriction comes into play!

Sox, maybe I don't understand engine correctly, but an engine will attempt to draw a certain about of consumable fuel with each stroke of the engine (in the form of a burnable fuel mixed with air). If there is a physical restriction on the flow of this fuel supply, than the engine will not get what it demands.... actually that wouldn't lead to leaning out, it would simply choke itself and stop running. My 351 on petrol with LPG gear fitted is a prime example of it!

So, how can it keep revving above 5800rpm if it can't flow more fuel when it hits this level of rpm?

Sox · 30-08-2005, 05:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pilch

Thanks Merlin, most informative and is quite a practical idea, but I still don't see how it will continuce to rev beyond 5800rpm when the restriction comes into play!

Sox, maybe I don't understand engine correctly, but an engine will attempt to draw a certain about of consumable fuel with each stroke of the engine (in the form of a burnable fuel mixed with air). If there is a physical restriction on the flow of this fuel supply, than the engine will not get what it demands.... actually that wouldn't lead to leaning out, it would simply choke itself and stop running. My 351 on petrol with LPG gear fitted is a prime example of it!

So, how can it keep revving above 5800rpm if it can't flow more fuel when it hits this level of rpm?

Engines easily reach redline with very small throttle openings, it's just that they produce far less power when venturi size is below optimum.

Imagine your 351 with a Holley 350, and a Holley 650.
It will still reach it's redline of say 6000rpm, because that is limited by the mechanical strength of the internals.
The engine will even have comparable power at low to mid revs, however above (say) 4000rpm the 650 will produce more power, and at 6000rpm that power difference may be as much as 30-40hp or more.

In both instances however, the engine can still easily reach that 6000rpm redline.

Same principle applies to the restrictors in the motorbike.

Rick.