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14-04-2010, 07:51 PM | #1 | ||
LWBforME
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 373
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Just read this story about Aussie pilots landing in Hong Kong. These guys are legends by all accounts. One engine shut down while on approach and the other was surging on and off. Then there was a problem with six tyres on touch down. Someone said it before and I'll drink to that: If it ain't a Boeing, I ain't going! However they did say it may have been caused by contaminated fuel taken on in Indonesia. Can all the usual aviation experts here throw some light on this?
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14-04-2010, 08:14 PM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 786
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I have been unlucky enough to have the misfortune of having to fly on an A330 more times than I cared to.
The first was the worst by far, a flight operated by Strategic Airways, the aircraft felt like it was shaking to pieces on takeoff, followed by the crunching and grinding of the main landing gear retracting. On all three hops of the journey, the aircrew were running around like morons on the ground attempting to ascertain just how much longer this heap of junk would keep going. Give me a Hercules crew anyday! (A Flyboys view anyway!) |
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14-04-2010, 08:27 PM | #3 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: ACT
Posts: 11,647
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Quote:
My dad was in the RAAF, stationed in Butterworth and as a kid I remember one year during school holidays in about 82, he wanted to send me, mum and my sister back to Australia for a holiday with family. The 707 flying out was full, so he got us onto a Herc for a 36 hour flight, Butterworth to Richmond and then onto a civi for the flight to Adelaide. I remember the herc was transporting parts for some vehicles back to Australia, and the 3 of us, along with Aircrew and 1 other passenger sat on those little net seats, ate from a cardboard box and spent a night in Port Hedland WA during refuelling, before going across Ayres Rock and heading towards Richmond. I remember how noisy, cold and uncomfortable it was, but how amazing it was to have experienced this. As a 12 year old, it was about the most exciting thing. I spent a lot of time in the cockpit with the Aircrew. The flight back to Malaysia was on a 707. I still have fond memories of my time growing up as a Raaf brat.
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14-04-2010, 08:54 PM | #4 | ||
The Origional, The Best
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Darwin, NT
Posts: 709
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yep one engine shut down on approach, the other was non responsive to throttle inputs and locked at 70% N1, RAT deployed, high speed approach based on the CX ops manual, engine shut down and landed without engine power hence the blown tyres from the heavy braking.
thats all i know, and yes its from a reliable source (ala mate who flys for CX)
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14-04-2010, 09:37 PM | #5 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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It amazes me how people like to be critical of airbus.... all because the media reports its it to be the most dangerous plane on the planet or some other rubbish....
Boeings have dramas too you know... As do Fords... Holdens.... etc etc etc etc etc A C-130 is not an airliner, its a cargo plane (yes have flown in one) An Airbus is not a cargo plane (though it does carry cargo!), its an airliner (and yes have flown in a airbus too). Comparing them is a bit like comparing a Ute to a Bus... Quote:
Airliners are insulated from engine noise, therefor you hear the hydraulics working when the gear retracts. ALL AIRLINERS DO THIS.... Sit near the wing of ANY airliner and you will hear undercarriage noises.
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... Last edited by Jim Goose; 14-04-2010 at 09:46 PM. |
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15-04-2010, 11:51 PM | #6 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 786
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Quote:
Airframes and their respective flight characteristics and operational attitudes and functions can't be compared to land transport realistically. Airframe types are one thing, but their suitability and effectiveness in way they achieve flight was my point of difference. The Hercs I fly in are maintained superbly. The Strategic A330 was a bucket of bolts. No aircraft should make noises and shudder like this one did. Ask any Aviator, they will tell you that undue vibration is a cause for concern, just like I have. If a 55 year old airframe design like the C-130 can be made and maintained to fly in a smooth, reliable fashion. I dont like to think too much about what was wrong with the Strategic A330 I have flown in. That said, the Qantas and American Airlines A330's haven't been much better. |
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16-04-2010, 09:14 AM | #7 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sun City, North Australis
Posts: 4,274
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Quote:
So did I for a living.... and worked as an AME Strategics current aircraft are new from factory. The previous Airbus was Portugese and was only a few years old. All airliners make noises when the gear goes up and down. You cant noise proof internal noises. Internally the Airbus is noisier because of the unique engine noise it makes (sounds like a grinder). A jet which shakes and rattles??? Too many "Flying High" movies.... And comparing a 4 engine turboprop with a jet.... hmmm Good luck with that....
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You've seen it, you've heard it and your still asking questions?? Don't write off the Goose until you see the box going into the hole.... |
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16-04-2010, 08:19 PM | #8 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 786
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As far as I am concerned, the Strategic A330 was a heap of ****. When the first officer of the day agreed with me upon landing, I don't care what anyone else says. As for comparing a turboprop and a jet, you still don't get it. As for this thread I'm out, concurring with the other blokes "If it ain't Boeing, I ain't going" (Lockheed's and McDonnell Douglas' are the exception to this rule : ) |
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14-04-2010, 11:34 PM | #9 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Chapel St
Posts: 774
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Quote:
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14-04-2010, 11:49 PM | #10 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 3,198
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Yanks like to talk up Boeings, nationalism thing.
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03-05-2010, 01:21 PM | #11 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Brisvegus
Posts: 435
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16-04-2010, 12:11 AM | #12 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,839
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If it aint Boeing I aint going!
;) |
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16-04-2010, 01:17 PM | #13 | |||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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Quote:
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16-04-2010, 01:27 PM | #14 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,839
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16-04-2010, 10:26 AM | #15 | ||
Petro-sexual
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 4,527
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I've done a few domestic trips and I absolutely hate the boeing 737. On take off it feels like its going to fall out of the sky and on landing it seems like it's quite a handful for the pilot (lots of correction required)
I've done a couple of flights on an A320 and preferred it by a long shot... very comfy on take off and landing. Any landing you walk away from is a good one. |
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16-04-2010, 04:07 PM | #16 | |||
LWBforME
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 373
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16-04-2010, 01:03 PM | #17 | ||
GT4.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 4,218
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The last time I commented on an Airbus v. Boeing thread I was shot down by one of our nitpicking phenominal cosmic know all members with little tolerance for those who have an eternal fascination however limited knowledge of the very particulars of aircraft and aviation.I love planes and aviation and in particular Airbus and I read about avaitaion every day so I do have a fair knowledge. Not a day goes by I don't turn my head skyward to see what's flying above!
While I have been in an A330 (Air Asia X) an A319 - A320 and an A321, not to mention a gorgeous Emirates A340, I can't say I have been anything other than impressed at their smoothness and quietness. I HAVE however been on B747-400, B737 300, 400, and the 700 - 800 NG's, B727, B767, and on some of them it is not unusual to hear the odd rattle or squeak (particularly on a B747 and B737 Takeoff). Main point is, I cannot make a BLANKET statement on the integrity of these manufacturers based on these experiences, and neither should anyone else. Boeing has had MANY well publicized accidents and fatalities over the years that commercial flight took off on their shoulders. I do love planes from both Boeing, and Airbus, It is absolutely wrong to can Airbus and discount them like some of you would do to Holden. Airbus is an amazing manufacturer as is Boeing, there is no better or worse, safer or unsafer. Just opinion. |
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16-04-2010, 09:07 PM | #18 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Brisbane Northside Likes: Opposite Lock
Posts: 5,731
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Meanwhile, over iceland:
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17-04-2010, 10:18 AM | #19 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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Quote:
Boeing V Airbus battles have been going on for years. The USA have taken action in the WTO over subsidies to EADS (who owns Airbus), and won; the french have accused the USA of a closed shop re defence contracts (bit of a national security issue non the less as the french have often sold things to enemies of the USA) and the case is still ongoing. From my experience: * Airbus A320's are wider than the 737. * 737NG's have a smaller ground effect and the large winglets through disruptions to wing vortices at low altitude add to the rough landings * Airbus A340's cannot take full fuel, pax and freight without being over MTOW. * Airbus A330's have several problems with wiring harnesses and kapton wiring problems causing erroneous data on the ADIRU's and computer shutdowns/emergency situations. * Boeing 777 is the safest commercial aircraft in the world. * US manufacturers such as Boeing and McDonnell douglas have been reluctant to fix known faults resulting in many deaths. * Airbus has been proven on several occassions to cover up known faults causing many deaths * A380 earned the nickname 180 from its propensity to emerge from maintenance, only to do a 180 degree turn and go back in with the same fault (most cases fuel delivery issues). There are many more but frankly I'm too bored to reference any more. The point is, neither of them is perfect, although in terms of downtime in maintenance airbus spend more time per flying hour in maintenance than Boeing. I'd hazard a guess that the safety of an aircraft depends largely on the airline that owns/operates it.
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16-04-2010, 09:40 PM | #20 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,839
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Volcanic Ash caused the simultaneous engine failure of all four engines on one flight a few years back.....loved that episode of Air Crash Investigation. Very intriguing, glad all lived to tell the tale
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Airways_Flight_9 Funny pic though! |
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03-05-2010, 01:41 PM | #21 | ||||
Back to Le Frenchy
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Back home.....
Posts: 13,346
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Quote:
I'd seen it before but I had to watch it again, brilliant stuff.
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03-05-2010, 02:03 PM | #22 | |||||
Captain Malcolm Reynolds
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Adelaide
Posts: 3,830
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Currently: 2014 Mazda6 GT (Daily) and 1999 Mazda MX5 (Fun Car) Previously: 2001 Ford Escape XLT; 2010 MC Mondeo; 1984 FD LTD; 2001 AU2 Falcon Forte; 2005 LS Focus Zetec; 1988 RE Colt; 1982 RB Colt; 1974 KE20 Corolla Quote:
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03-05-2010, 02:06 PM | #23 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
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Wow this is amazing... Cos we all have so much experience actually flying these planes! Give me a Boeing 727. I like its maneuverability and acceleration. Every time I stop to fill it up with fuel, it costs an arm and a leg though.
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04-05-2010, 10:50 AM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,839
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Quote:
These fighter pilots are truly in a different league! |
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04-05-2010, 06:07 PM | #25 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,017
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Quote:
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05-05-2010, 01:33 PM | #26 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 10,839
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Next on 2:30pm today on the History channel (606 on Foxtel) Although that doesnt help when most of the popn is at work! Tuesday 11/05 10:30pm Repeated Wednesday 12/05 2:30pm |
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03-05-2010, 01:31 PM | #27 | ||
Barra Turbo > V8
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 26,017
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On a car forum, im surprised at often a Boeing vs Airbus thread pops up. If you want to debate which one is better go to the right forum. Im getting a bit sick of it, how about we admire the pilots skill here and not criticise the plane eh?
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03-05-2010, 02:03 PM | #28 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Perth WA
Posts: 1,204
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I bought Betty Tootles "All Four Engines have failed" when it was first released, very good read at the time. Still got it somewhere too!
Max, Not sure US 737's have different engines, however the first 737's certainly used a bullet shaped engine. IIRC, the 737 was designed to operate at airports with no ground support so had shorter undercarriage, this necessitated a low profile engine hence the bullet shape. You will notice later 737's have a flattened engine nacelle at the bottom in order to provide ground clearance, the engine is also well forward and high up on the wing rather than completely underslung. Others with more knowledge may correct me if i'm wrong |
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04-05-2010, 10:43 AM | #29 | ||||
Force Fed Fords
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Enroute
Posts: 4,050
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Quote:
They were the technology at the time but were thirsty and used to leave big plumes of black smoke in their wake. Later incarnations of the JT8D included a longer pod for better acoustics and noise suppression, the engine was also uprated several times. It wasn't until 1968-9 that P&W developed the high bypass ration turbofan for the 747 that the modern engine was born. Increases in noise suppression, lower fuel burn and double the amount of power for less fuel than the JT8's gave birth to the 300 series. Engines such as the CFM56 became the norm as the older style were phased out seen as inefficient, noisy and underpowered.
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04-05-2010, 06:14 PM | #30 | ||
Banned
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Bat Cave
Posts: 1,237
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if your a geek plane spotter you will have probably noticed hot the airbus planes whole range from 320 330 340 and 380 are much more graceful smoother fliers than the boeings
i see maybe 50+ planes land a day when i can be bothered looking, and you can really notice this alongside the runway as the zoom past... that said i've flown on most modern aircraft and i liked the 330 the best lol everyflight i've been on a 330 had been smooth sailing errr flying ;) seeing the 380 take off almost everyday you still turn to watch, the 747 on the otherhand no one cares anymore lol |
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