What defines MUSCLE in muscle car ???

[302 XC]

What defines MUSCLE ???

Is it because it has a V8 ,a 6 pot or even a 4 pot ?
There are some tuff factory V8s of course, but there a some tuff factory sixes, and lets not forget the cosworth sierra
Maybe it has to be quick down the 1/4 mile, maybe good top end,maybe just that G force into the seat when the load pedal is pushed

Alot of us are ol school and cherise our ol V8s, they have that ol persona of muscle
But compared to a new high tech 6/4 pot, they will get beaten to 100, beaten down the quarter (generally ,lets not forget the GXL 351 1/4 mile times, you could near run faster )
I know its not the same, but im not asking whats better to drive or gets more attention
What defines MUSCLE in muscle cars ???

[Fev]

Muscle car is generally defined by a big engine in a small car. Its got much more power than is needed at any given time. Nowdays its pretty much anything with the latter, more power than needed and the attitude to go with it

[Polyal]

Oh the golden oldie!

A muscle car doesnt need to be the fastest car on the road, its size can vary, and its harder these days to define as rules and regs pretty much cancel out any potential for factory muscle per se.

Well thats just my opinion, but, our local cars still have a bit of mongrel about them. Even though its a supreme machine, I would find it hard to class say a new M5 as muscle. Even though it obviously would spank anything from the 70's etc.

Muscle cars just have a x-factor thats hard to measure, kind of like the cool wall on topgear.

[noosacuda]

N/A V8 or multiple carburetored 6 cyls. NO turbos. As for "small" cars with "big" engines i'm bending the rules- BIG car (2140kg's, BIG engine 500cid!)

[Moby Vic]

It's hard to say these days. The old-school American definition was a big block engine in a two-door midsized car.

It probably makes more sense to judge by performance, but I wouldn't consider a Nissan GTR a muscle car.

Seems like a muscle car should at least have a back seat. And something ridiculously primitive, such as drum brakes, a live axle, crank windows, or loud graphics and scoops and spoilers.

Plus it can't be Japanese.

[FTE]

a factory car with a tuff image. Lots of cars today wouldn't be seen as musclecars yet but given time they'll fit into it. For instance a W427 I wouldnt call a musclecar but it has the right ingredients for the future to become one. So too the F6 or supercharged GT. But this is a few years from now

[Polyal]

Yeap IMO "muscle car" is a term that should be used for old school. I would call the modern stuff performance cars, as they really do everything well, 70's muscle go well (for the time) in a straight line, juts dont ask them to stop in a hurry or go around a corner in a sensible fashion..LOL

[Majestic]

a muscle car in my opinion is an old skool cars that were high performance cars at their time of release - aussie examples are GT's, Monaros, A9x toranas, charger etc.. plenty of american examples out there too. That's just what I think anyways.

My 12yo son's definition of a muscle car is an old car that looks mean and only goes fast in a straight line lol

[Trek]

Originally Posted by Majestic

a muscle car in my opinion is an old skool cars that were high performance cars at their time of release - aussie examples are GT's, Monaros, A9x toranas, charger etc.. plenty of american examples out there too. That's just what I think anyways.

My 12yo son's definition of a muscle car is an old car that looks mean and only goes fast in a straight line lol

Good examples and your son is pretty close, I think!

To put it simply, from what I read/hear from others:

-Carby V8/worked 6 pot, a la Hemi, etc.
-Chrome Bumpers
-'bad' brakes
-Generally no P/S
-No A/C
-Rarely or wasn't optioned with power windows
-Predates 1980

[mik]

true muscle car = heavy clutch, no power steering, carburetored engine, powerful engine, lumpy tempremental engine that needs constant tuning, goes like stink, 8/10 mpg or less, brakes on up to 50 % of the performance, styling with attitude, paint, garish stripes, racing heritage .

[Geez Louise]

Muscle Cars to me have always been 70's era of cars.

I am talking - X series Falcons, Toranas, Monaros of the 70's.

Todays cars are Performance cars in my eyes. Modern technology and a take off that makes your toes curl, your fingers dig into the arm rests and your neck just about snap off! They go great! but don't have the same feel for me.

There is nothing like hearing the sound of a 70's X Series car with a V8.

But then again, I could be a little bit bias.

Cheers
Col

[DBourne]

I reckon it's a car that is "basic" with a big heart (engine) and real road presence.

So no luxuries, no power windows, heated / massage seats, ponsy traction control / raw control / pitch sensors blah blah bulldust.

Just a nice big meaty motor up front. Manual gearbox, drive to the rear of the car, and a driver.

I agree that todays fast cars can be labelled "performance cars" as that is what they are, not muscle cars.

[CAT600]

Unfortunatley, for cars like Tweeked's 351R GT, Tex's SCUD and my own Terminator, there is just too much plastic to even go there.

I could take 99% (i'd say 100 but there's always someone crazier than you ) of people on this forum out in my AU and bring them back a very changed person....

But that dont make it a Muscle car right now... too much brakes, luxury and plastic IMO. Give it 20 years and the world will be a different place.

1967-1983 for Fords in Aus.... the XE ESP is the last definable Ford muscle car IMO

Daniel

[trippytaka]

A big engine, and a disctinct lack of plastic anywhere on the body. IMO muscle cars is an era-specific term, meaning there are no modern muscle cars. I would probably say Muscle cars ended for Ford Aus with the last of the XCs and for Holden it was the launch of the CommonWhore that spelled the end -although wikipedia (welcome back online) argues against that point and includes the brock commons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muscle_car

I

[350125GO]

Pre or Coke Bottle styled body, metal panels, 6 if small car otherwise Big V8. Struggles to corner but shreds tyres and sounds mean. I wouldnt call any of the new Falcons traditional muscle, more modern performace.

[Stefan]

The anual what is a muscle car thread....

[MAGPIE]

For me...

American with 2 doors and a V8

[lilmattie]

For me: - popular, classic steel cars with steel bumpers - not plastic, that commonly have performance mods applied to them (but not always).

There's some great looking stock 6cyl cars that I would term a muscle car, because of what they look and sound like.

[2011G6E]

Anything that had a fair amount of power for the size of the car...of course the power outputs are pretty pitiful by todays standards...even a bog stock V6 Commodore or I6 Falcon will be way more powerful than GT falcons of days gone by...but they had a charachter about them that was hard to define.

[z80]

Just one word.

Corvette.

[OzJavelin]

Originally Posted by z80

Just one word.

Corvette.

Corvettes were never really considered Muscle Cars .. even things like the 427 tri-power monsters .. with sidepipes, etc, regardless of how brutal they were, were Sports Cars.

Muscle Cars were generally midsized coupes (GM Abody Chevelle, GTO, etc .. Mopar Bbody RoadRunner, Charger, etc .. Ford intermediate Fairlane, Torino, etc) with engine sizes approaching litigious proportions (max sub-400ci for GMs until about 1970 .. when they gave up pretending and just shoved whatever 425, 427, 454, 455, corporate engine they had in there .. like what Mopar did all along)

In my book even the most muscular "compacts" like the SCJ 428 'Stangs, 454 Camaros, etc were still Pony Cars .. not Muscle Cars.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by z80

Just one word.

Corvette.

Sports car actually...



"Muscle car" doesn't need to exsist in a time-bubble, that is only to refer to cars of the mid sixites to early 70's with big engines, small brakes, lots of power but little cornering finess.

I believe the term is ment to actually describe larger american performance cars (GTO Torino, Charger etc), while "Pony cars" are the mid size (Mustang, camero etc). But, as time goes on, most people refer to mustangs as muscle cars.

Come to present day, does "modern" technology make muscle obsolete?

So, take a XR6T...muscle?

Yes.

Its a large RWD sedan with bucket loads of power, much like a GTHO (oh no i didn't! ) in essance.

Remember that OHC's, turbos etc are as old as muscle cars them selves, and if ford had its way SOHC motors would have made its way into Torinos, and only chrome bumpers? Ford fairlane Thunderblot had fiberglass bumpers...

In realliy there is "classic muscle" and "modern muscle"...

Might be hard to chew, but its the truth.

[Angeldust]

Over powerd, under braked and under tyred.

My VY SS manual fits in nicely into this description.
It drives like a musclecar should too (i used to drive around in a v8 torana)

im happy.

[martinijosh]

Cart springs, body roll, basic instruments, v8, comfortable seats - old school

Muscle car is just a name started by americans to make the car seem more appealing. All it really is is a Grand Tourer. A car with lots of lazy power that can cruise the highways with ease while providing decent levels of comfort.

To the above, the R35 GTR is not a muscle car/GT car... it's a sports car leaning heavily in to the supercar category.

[SteveJH]

Originally Posted by martinijosh

Cart springs, body roll, basic instruments, v8, comfortable seats - old school

Hmm.....XR8 and GS Utes have the V8....the cart springs....the confortable seats.....two doors......

[Auslandau]

Over powered, under braked, chrome bumper, carbureted, heavy, loud and requires some muscle to drive them. There is NOTHING after the 70's that came into this category ........ no matter how hard they tried .... and that discounts everything from VY's to FG GT's. A 'modern' car that is overpowered and under braked is just badly engineered. Back then that was the way it was.

[Bucknaked]

Mid to late 60's to early to mid 70's. Modern cars are not muscle cars.

[martinijosh]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Over powered, under braked, chrome bumper, carbureted, heavy, loud and requires some muscle to drive them. There is NOTHING after the 70's that came into this category ........ no matter how hard they tried .... and that discounts everything from VY's to FG GT's. A 'modern' car that is overpowered and under braked is just badly engineered. Back then that was the way it was.

1980



(They called them a sports car... but we all know the truth)

But yes, as a general rule - what you just said is true. The 80's was a baaaad time for the American motor industry. "European" box styling and heavy emissions control killed any spirit they had left.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Auslandau

Over powered, under braked, chrome bumper, carbureted, heavy, loud and requires some muscle to drive them. There is NOTHING after the 70's that came into this category ........ no matter how hard they tried .... and that discounts everything from VY's to FG GT's. A 'modern' car that is overpowered and under braked is just badly engineered. Back then that was the way it was.

agree, but with the addition of - it needs to have at least 350ci and has to be able to tow a fully loaded inboard v8 ski boat
in my opinion, muscle isn't just speed - it means having the muscle/tourque to effortlessly move any realistic load

a torana, bolwell or 6 cyl valiants are not muscle to me

[302 XC]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

agree, but with the addition of - it needs to have at least 350ci and has to be able to tow a fully loaded inboard v8 ski boat
in my opinion, muscle isn't just speed - it means having the muscle/tourque to effortlessly move any realistic load

a torana, bolwell or 6 cyl valiants are not muscle to me

I use a 6 pot nissan patrol as a tow rig, it will pull anything i give it
It will pull way more loads than my XC would dream off
But it aint no muscle car
The turbo diesel 4by thats nearly finished puts out my torque at the wheels than the XC, and will definately tow more, again its no muscle car
And the 4bies will both give the XC a run for the money


edit :
The first thing i took of the XC was the towbar,missus asked why ???