Fight Speeding fines

[blueoval]

This was from another forum. Sorry if its a repost. Mods delete it if necessary.

An interesting web page:
http://www.fightfines.info/



VICTORIANS are flocking to a website that offers advice on how to fight their speeding fines in court.
The controversial site has been online only three months.

But already scores of disgruntled drivers are logging on every day for tips on how to avoid paying fines.

Defences range from arguments about speedometers to querying the constitutionality of Victoria's speed camera system.

The Government would not say whether the site broke any laws but is not happy with the site, the creation of engineer Carl Agar.

"The easiest way to avoid having to pay a speeding fine is to not speed, and thereby avoid receiving a speeding fine," said Police Minister Tim Holding.

"Even exceeding the speed limit by small amounts increases the risk and severity of road trauma."

Mr Agar created the site -- www.fightfines.info -- after he successfully challenged his own fine. After being clocked doing 66km/h in a 60km/h zone, Mr Agar was found guilty but his fine and costs were waived.

Others had used the information on his site to avoid fines.

"It's not legal advice. If people want to challenge their fines here are some arguments for you to consider," he said. "All the information on the website has been in the public domain."

Mr Agar said all Victorians should challenge their traffic fines to protest at getting charged over minuscule speed infringements in a revenue-raising exercise.

"Even if 5 per cent of fine recipients challenged, they would just bring the system to a halt," he said.


Taken from melbccr

[Ozfords]

Hmmmm, maybe don't speed in the first place.

SOLVED!

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Ozfords

Hmmmm, maybe don't speed in the first place.

SOLVED!

Yep, and being a ***** once again, people need to accept personal RESPONSIBILITY!

Remember the days when if you did something wrong, you accepted it and didn'y go running to the courts? Long time ago now.

Makes me sick that people know they've done wrong, but they stomp their foot, throw a poo-poo na-na and whinge.

Some people shouldn't be allowed outside.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

people need to accept personal RESPONSIBILITY!

Sure do! I can't stand it when people speed and then try to think of a way to contest the fine. If you speed then cop it sweet I say. I copped one a couple of weeks ago. It's the first one I've had in 5 years. Saw the fine and thought, oh well. Didn't fuss, didn't complain. I did it - I cop it. But those that do it and then complain are full of it. If you're gonna speed, and you get caught, quit your whining.

But now saying that. Many years ago I copped one. And I remembered why I sped that day. I had cars up my back and a semi infront of me. The semi pulled up quickly because (from what I saw later, cars had pulled to a stop infront of him) I had 2 choices. Hit the brakes and let the fool that was riding my bumper hit me from behind or downchange and cut fast into the left. I changed to the left and copped 14k's over. I knew that was what I got caught for but I thought, what's the point. They'll just come back and say "regardless, you sped". That's the only time I've ever thought of contesting a fine BUT it atleast would have been a legit reason, rather than a "it's not fair I got busted" reason.

Such is life...

Krissy.

[Tote]

Originally Posted by FRDGAL_AU6

Sure do! I can't stand it when people speed and then try to think of a way to contest the fine. If you speed then cop it sweet I say. I copped one a couple of weeks ago. It's the first one I've had in 5 years. Saw the fine and thought, oh well. Didn't fuss, didn't complain. I did it - I cop it. But those that do it and then complain are full of it. If you're gonna speed, and you get caught, quit your whining.

But now saying that. Many years ago I copped one. And I remembered why I sped that day. I had cars up my back and a semi infront of me. The semi pulled up quickly because (from what I saw later, cars had pulled to a stop infront of him) I had 2 choices. Hit the brakes and let the fool that was riding my bumper hit me from behind or downchange and cut fast into the left. I changed to the left and copped 14k's over. I knew that was what I got caught for but I thought, what's the point. They'll just come back and say "regardless, you sped". That's the only time I've ever thought of contesting a fine BUT it atleast would have been a legit reason, rather than a "it's not fair I got busted" reason.

Such is life...

Krissy.

The Victorian Government must love your willingness to pay extra taxes. Now all they need for you to do is to spend some time at a casino and they can spend some more taxpayer money on balancing the state budget.
Seriously, I appreciate your comments about copping it sweet if you were intentionally speeding and get caught. What about when you get caught by a camera 3 km over the speed limit on a down hill run because your vehicle dosent have sufficient engine braking and you were looking at the road instead of the speedo?
A Cynical NSW resident might even say that they reduced the points for the "just over" offences so thay can tax you a few more times before they take your licence away.
Regards,
Tote

[kooky]

Originally Posted by FRDGAL_AU6

Sure do! I can't stand it when people speed and then try to think of a way to contest the fine. If you speed then cop it sweet I say. I copped one a couple of weeks ago. It's the first one I've had in 5 years. Saw the fine and thought, oh well. Didn't fuss, didn't complain. I did it - I cop it. But those that do it and then complain are full of it. If you're gonna speed, and you get caught, quit your whining.

But now saying that. Many years ago I copped one. And I remembered why I sped that day. I had cars up my back and a semi infront of me. The semi pulled up quickly because (from what I saw later, cars had pulled to a stop infront of him) I had 2 choices. Hit the brakes and let the fool that was riding my bumper hit me from behind or downchange and cut fast into the left. I changed to the left and copped 14k's over. I knew that was what I got caught for but I thought, what's the point. They'll just come back and say "regardless, you sped". That's the only time I've ever thought of contesting a fine BUT it atleast would have been a legit reason, rather than a "it's not fair I got busted" reason.

Such is life...

Krissy.

You do know that if you write a letter to the governing body (unsure what it is) with your driving record you can actually not pay the fine.

If you have not had a speeding fine for five years or more and it is under 5kph then you can explain in a letter that it is out of character for you to have been speeding (cite driving record) and that it must have been a lapse in concentration etc etc... and you can be given a warning and not have to pay the fine.

I am aware of your stance on the matter but in some cases it is just that a lapse in concentration or not knowing the area well etc.

I am usure if your points are affected though?

[Bill_R]

Originally Posted by kooky

If you have not had a speeding fine for five years or more and it is under 5kph then you can explain in a letter that it is out of character for you to have been speeding (cite driving record) and that it must have been a lapse in concentration etc etc... and you can be given a warning and not have to pay the fine.

I can recall many years ago that John Laws got pipped doign 180 km/h or so. He was driving a fairly new Merc (I think). He contested it saying that the car was so smooth he didn't notice the speed it was doing. Now, if that was an everyday Joe in a Falcon do you think he would have gotten off?

[T_Terror]

The fact that so many people are angry about speeding fines in victoria shows that its not just "a bunch of whingers" failing to take responsibility.

Have a look at the site, from the differences in tolerances between ADRs and speed cameras to the placement of cameras in revenue generating positions as opposed to genuine high-risk areas its obvious that its about the money not lives.

Theres a protest rally at the steps of parliament on October 29th, lets see what happens then.

[jimmy_c]

Originally Posted by T_Terror

The fact that so many people are angry about speeding fines in victoria shows that its not just "a bunch of whingers" failing to take responsibility.

Have a look at the site, from the differences in tolerances between ADRs and speed cameras to the placement of cameras in revenue generating positions as opposed to genuine high-risk areas its obvious that its about the money not lives.

Theres a protest rally at the steps of parliament on October 29th, lets see what happens then.

This has been my argument all along. ADR are set at 10 -/+ yet the govt sqeeze the tollerence down to 3 kph

So there is some serious bending over been done.

Using speeding kills excuse is gone too far now.

[Rob]

Anyone seen the signs on the princes hwy near forsyth road - SAFETY CAMERAS NOW ACTIVE. CAMERAS SAVE LIVES.

What a crock.

Shows the backlash is hitting home if they're responding like that.

[thefargo]

[QUOTE=BLC]Anyone seen the signs on the princes hwy near forsyth road - SAFETY CAMERAS NOW ACTIVE. CAMERAS SAVE LIVES.

saw a speed camera giving mouth to mouth resus the other day, and thought to myself, "that's what they mean about saving lives" what a joke!

it is comforting to know that I can be driving 10km/hr below the speed limit in icy and dark conditions, lose control of the vehicle and not worry about a speed camera. it is not the speed but the combination of conditions and speed.
sometimes I wonder if I concentrate more or less at higher speeds? if the answer is more, am I a better driver than the other vehicle doing 5 km/hr below speed limit?

[MITCHAY]

As far as I'm concerned if ADR rules allow for manufacturers to sell cars with speedos that have a + or - 10% accuracy and therefore collect the tax from the sale, then they have no right to fine anyone who's alleged speed is in with 10% excess of the post speed limit- ie 66 in a 60.

Another form of double dipping. Get tax from cars sold with inaccurate speedos and then collect the revenue from the fine.

If I got done for this I would fight it in court, but don't have the money like most to do so which is what I suppose the government allready knows.

In some magazines they have a figure saying "Speed at indicated 100" and more often than not is either higher or lower, even if by a small margin.

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

Using speeding kills excuse is gone too far now.

Have you noticed that they are playing more 'speed kills' ad's on the radio again?

Originally Posted by BLC

SAFETY CAMERAS NOW ACTIVE. CAMERAS SAVE LIVES.

What a crock.

I love it how they are called 'Safety Cameras' what a farce!

Funny Story.
My dad got a speeding fine, 56 in a 50. It has been that long since he last had a fine that I can't remember.
I told him he and mum are lucky to be alive as anything over 3kph kills.... :

[Smoked]

Getting pinged for 64 in a 60 zone, do you call that reasonable justice? Even with the 3km/h tolerance, I still received an infringement for 61 in a 60 zone.

[uranium_death]

Originally Posted by Smoked

Getting pinged for 64 in a 60 zone, do you call that reasonable justice? Even with the 3km/h tolerance, I still received an infringement for 61 in a 60 zone.

Then that is one to fight...1km over...that's 1.6% over the limit.

But most of my anger is at dickheads who drive at 50+km/h over the limit, then complain about the ramifications.

If I had it my way, the TAC should make a giant slingshot that is aimed at a giant, solid wall. Everybody who speeds excessively, they should load them up and shoot them into the wall, and enjoy the splat.

Hey, they're going to die anyway one day. And this way, nobody else gets hurt.

[EBII Fairmont]

Originally Posted by Smoked

Getting pinged for 64 in a 60 zone, do you call that reasonable justice? Even with the 3km/h tolerance, I still received an infringement for 61 in a 60 zone.

Yeah i got done for doing 64 in a 60zone. That was also driving the car home on the day i bought it. Copper was tight and wouldn't accept my story. He claims that I should have known. But I don't understand how you should know these things when u have picked the car up n driven it 10 minutes down the road.

All i know, is bracksy won't be recieving my vote. Let's hopefully throw out this moron who can't juggle the states money.

[Keepleft]

Originally Posted by EBII Fairmont

Yeah i got done for doing 64 in a 60zone. That was also driving the car home on the day i bought it. Copper was tight and wouldn't accept my story. He claims that I should have known. But I don't understand how you should know these things when u have picked the car up n driven it 10 minutes down the road.

All i know, is bracksy won't be recieving my vote. Let's hopefully throw out this moron who can't juggle the states money.

People were saying this just before the last election - makes no political difference in outcome, Bracks got back in comfortably.

What matters more to people is simple things like 'petrol', not speed cameras, and seeing some of the 'implied' support for speed cameras in this thread will only signal to the attorney general - 'no change policy' in their ongoing adoption, budgeting of, and even greater speed restrictons down the track.

Yes, if you break any speed limit, you take the responsibilit for the action, that does not mean the limit is 85th percentile based or otherwise safe and proper.

[EBII Fairmont]

Originally Posted by Keepleft

People were saying this just before the last election - makes no political difference in outcome, Bracks got back in comfortably.

What matters more to people is simple things like 'petrol', not speed cameras, and seeing some of the 'implied' support for speed cameras in this thread will only signal to the attorney general - 'no change policy' in their ongoing adoption, budgeting of, and even greater speed restrictons down the track.

Yes, if you break any speed limit, you take the responsibilit for the action, that does not mean the limit is 85th percentile based or otherwise safe and proper.

What really gets too me, they get all this money from speeding fines, and it seems like they are waisting it. One of the main rds in our area is so poor, that is seriously needs an upgrade. Over the last year, the Bracks govt have knocked back every plea to have it fixed.

It seems like this govt isjust throwing the money away aimlessley. How many millions were lost by the bracks govt with the commonwealth games and the formula 1. How about Spencer st station, and the lsit just goees on.

Good on this guy for putting up a site with such tips. If they aren't going to put the money to good use, leave it to the drivers to use on what they want.

[FRDGAL]

Originally Posted by Smoked

Getting pinged for 64 in a 60 zone, do you call that reasonable justice? Even with the 3km/h tolerance, I still received an infringement for 61 in a 60 zone.

Was that in response to my post? Sorry if it wasn't but I'm gonna reply to it anyway.

Firstly, that's ridiculous. Getting done for such a small amount over. 3km/h is pathetic and nothing but a hand in revenue raising. My point though was directed to those who deliberately speed and try to get out of it. In no way did I insinuate that everyone that gets a fine should just sit back and cop it sweet. It was directed to those that speed without care or worry and then try to worm out of the fine.

Just wanted to clear that up

[LTDHO]

If you speed them pay the fine, don't weasle your way out.

BE RESPONSIBLE FOR YOUR ACTIONS

[photn]

Here we go again. can anyone say "justify Speed Cameras" thread????.....Ohh dear ... it starts once again.

I honestly feel for you Mexicans. I'd hate to be pinged for something I didn't do.

At least we have some tolerance up here.

[merlin]

Here we go again...hey if you all like paying the government your hard earned money for daring to break the arbitrary imposed speed limit by 6km/h then go ahead and "take personal responsibilty" and pat yourself on the back and feel good. I will keep my $200 or whatever and feel a whole lot better :-P

[LTDHO]

Originally Posted by merlin

Here we go again...hey if you all like paying the government your hard earned money for daring to break the arbitrary imposed speed limit by 6km/h then go ahead and "take personal responsibilty" and pat yourself on the back and feel good. I will keep my $200 or whatever and feel a whole lot better :-P

6kph?? We wish. It's only 3 here!!

[merlin]

Originally Posted by LTDHO

6kph?? We wish. It's only 3 here!!

I know - you guys have it very harsh. At least we get a 10% tolerance (well unofficially anyway).

[old mate]

Originally Posted by merlin

Here we go again...hey if you all like paying the government your hard earned money for daring to break the arbitrary imposed speed limit by 6km/h then go ahead and "take personal responsibilty" and pat yourself on the back and feel good. I will keep my $200 or whatever and feel a whole lot better :-P

dead right mate. what about back in march when the grand prix was on?? i drive along canturbury rd, albert park, twice daily. the same canturbury rd. that has been a 60 zone for the past 355 days. then one day it mysteriously turns into a 50 zone... did i look at the "new" signs slapped over the top of the old ones? no - why would i, it's been a 60 zone for as long as i knew. just a 210 dollar fine in the mail. no warning, just a set of new signs one morning. no worries bracksy you c__t. by the way, the camera was set up on the first morning of it being a 50 zone. that's why we should all be a__eholes to cops (starting with my brother in law - don't worry he gets heaps off me)

[GCFordChic]

Can we merge this thread with the numerous others on the same general topic and title it...."Whinge here about speed cameras"

Because everytime a new one pops up i click on it thinking there might be some new and amazing development. Each time i sigh and realise it is the same old arguements and the same sort of comments from each "side".

There is nothing in this thread we havent discussed before. Wasted bandwidth.

[blueoval]

Maybe this thread wasnt a good idea. :(

It seems to be a topic too close to the nerve.

I can understand everyones issues on the subject, I agree with most regarding taking some responsibility, but when there is no tolerable limit to the speed and you get pinged for a very minor amount, that I beleive can cause room for road rage from other drivers. I can ignore other drivers with road rage, but when its continuous that you are slowing down the flow of traffic for the sake of you being paranoid about speeding, then you can see why the pressure to keep up with everyone else becomes more apparent. Then again, no is forcing you to speed but yourself.

Just my 2c worth.

[jimmy_c]

Seriously especially in NSW when the Government owns shares in a Cigarette company nothing is done about it. Yet they crap on with Smoking Kills.

Everything kills you eventually. Somethings just come down to accidents and timing. Speeding and Driving Stupid is plain dumb.

But using devices and propaganda to bombard people with utter crap for the sake of taking money of them is a joke. These people need to be locked up. (I.E Governments)

Saying speeding kills is one thing. having 1 RULE. I.E ADRS set at 10kph acc. on Cars then the Government Setting 3kph acc. on speed guns/radars/Cameras.

then you have to seriously question the motives and points behind it all.

[Bill_R]

Speed alone isn't the problem because it is relative to the conditions. Now, I rarely "speed" and have never had a speeding ticket. I'm aware of the +/- 10% on speedos. I have been for years but have never needed to use it.

I'm in Northern NSW. Some of the limits are ridiculous - some are too low and some are too high. Going past many groups of shops on main roads with crossings and multiple parking spots at 50 km/h is speeding as far as I'm concerned but that's the limit. Going 80 km/h on an open road here is causing a hinderance to other traffic but that is also the limit. Going 50 on soem suburban roads is way too low and then goign 50 on othes is way too high. I think we need to get away from thinking of speed as absolute. Revenue raisers don't think that way. There are many more important things to think about. When you get tailgated doing 80 or even 90 in an 80 zone with no overtakign opportunities you start to realise the mentality of some drivers on the road. They might *think* they can "drive" because they can sit close to another car but, in fact, they have little or no driving skills whatsoever. Skill means that you *think* and observe and anticipate and judge the conditions ahead. Pet hate and I've vented - lol. I had one sitting on my taillast night - slowed right down then blew him totally away under acceleration.