Holden secures $200m subsidy

Dr Smith · 22-03-2012, 12:30 AM

THE AGE:
http://www.theage.com.au/opinion/pol...321-1vko6.html

Quote:

GM HOLDEN will promise today to keep making cars in Australia for at least another decade after securing a subsidy package from the federal and South Australian governments worth more than $200 million.

Quote:

Holden will continue local production of the Commodore until 2016 when it will be replaced by one of its parent company's US models, it was reported last night.
It is believed a new vehicle will also be produced at the company's Adelaide plant, alongside the popular Cruze model, as part of the deal.

malazn mafia · 22-03-2012, 12:57 AM

No more Commodore after 2016?... Imagine if its successor is a bigger brother to the Cruze (FWD sedan). Knowing Holden, they could have gotten away with putting a body kit on a Daewoo large sedan and still sell it. What incentive will Ford even have to continue on with the Falcon. This is not good.

Dr Smith · 22-03-2012, 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

No more Commodore after 2016?... Imagine if its successor is a bigger brother to the Cruze (FWD sedan). Knowing Holden, they could have gotten away with putting a body kit on a Daewoo large sedan and still sell it. What incentive will Ford even have to continue on with the Falcon. This is not good.

What isn't clear yet is if the US replacement post 2016 will be badged Commodore or not and also what new car gets built alongside Cruze if it's not the Commodore replacement.

2011G6E · 22-03-2012, 05:29 AM

Phht...Ford, Holden...they all need government subsidies and help and protectionist taxing to shield them from the big bad world out there...

Hulsty · 22-03-2012, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Phht...Ford, Holden...they all need government subsidies and help and protectionist taxing to shield them from the big bad world out there...

Same as the majority of car manufacturers world wide, they look after their own some way or another.

mik · 22-03-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Phht...Ford, Holden...they all need government subsidies and help and protectionist taxing to shield them from the big bad world out there...

so does toyota.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 06:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

What isn't clear yet is if the US replacement post 2016 will be badged Commodore or not and also what new car gets built alongside Cruze if it's not the Commodore replacement.

1) Zeta Commodore finishes in 2016,
2) after that, an Amreican designed car takes over
3) that new car will be built here until 2021 - one product cycle.

Now then, Holden and Toyota have both made long term commitments to remain,
will Ford follow suit and announce a new locally produced car for post 2016 or will they import......

And For my money, Holden getting $200 million and an export contract to the USA are the only things saving Elizabeth.

Joe5619 · 22-03-2012, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Now then, Holden and Toyota have both made long term commitments to remain,
will Ford follow suit and announce a new locally produced car for post 2016 or will they import......

I think Ford need to hurry up & make their minds up what they are doing locally. Being the only local manufacture not to commit to the future, just gives negative reportors so much fuel for the fire!!
.
.
.

Good news for Holden, interesting that Commodore as we know it is gone, yet the media has never drummed that one home, like they have with Ford. I wonder if it is FWD or RWD? The strategy sounds very “One Ford” to me.

DanielXR8 · 22-03-2012, 11:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joe5619

I think Ford need to hurry up & make their minds up what they are doing locally. Being the only local manufacture not to commit to the future, just gives negative reportors so much fuel for the fire!!
.
.
.

I think the silence tells us Ford already have made their minds up.

The Monty · 22-03-2012, 06:56 AM

So around 8000 employees.
Holden pays tax.
Each of the 8000 employees pays up to $8000 tax Per year.
Employees alone are putting in $64 million per year into the country via tax.
Times 10 years is $640 million.
Plus the money they spend in town to businesses that then have to pay tax to the government.
If I was the government, I would want to give them $200 million to get a $1billion PLUS return aover 10 years. Sounds like a good investment?

The Monty · 22-03-2012, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

So around 8000 employees.
Holden pays tax.
Each of the 8000 employees pays up to $8000 tax Per year.
Employees alone are putting in $64 million per year into the country via tax.
Times 10 years is $640 million.
Plus the money they spend in town to businesses that then have to pay tax to the government.
If I was the government, I would want to give them $200 million to get a $1billion PLUS return aover 10 years. Sounds like a good investment?

I got my 8000 employees from this data:
NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES = 9724 (as at Jan 2005)
and took off a few.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

I got my 8000 employees from this data:
NUMBER OF EMPLOYEES = 9724 (as at Jan 2005)
and took off a few.

Only about 2500 are employed ar Elizabeth , a few more at Engine plant and of course engineering.

$200 million funding normally requires a $600 million commitment from Holden so $800 million to
prop up local manufacturing for 10 years...or will they come back in 2016 wanting more cash?
I swear Holden and Ford are masters at getting funding out of governments...

aussie muscle · 22-03-2012, 08:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

..or will they come back in 2016 wanting more cash?

i would...(if i were them)

whynot · 23-03-2012, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

So around 8000 employees.
Holden pays tax.
Each of the 8000 employees pays up to $8000 tax Per year.
Employees alone are putting in $64 million per year into the country via tax.
Times 10 years is $640 million.
Plus the money they spend in town to businesses that then have to pay tax to the government.
If I was the government, I would want to give them $200 million to get a $1billion PLUS return aover 10 years. Sounds like a good investment?

The question should be if is a better investment option. Spend the $200M retraining the workers into mining related roles and make a few billion tax more. It is a political bailout.

Shonky. · 23-03-2012, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynot

The question should be if is a better investment option. Spend the $200M retraining the workers into mining related roles and make a few billion tax more. It is a political bailout.

More people digging holes. Without economic assistance that is all we will end up doing. The positive externalities of having an automotive industry are huge.

Joe5619 · 23-03-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynot

The question should be if is a better investment option. Spend the $200M retraining the workers into mining related roles and make a few billion tax more. It is a political bailout.

Great plan.. NOT!!

A) What happens when there is nothing to mind anymore?
B) Are we going to move everyone to WA?

Dr Smith · 24-03-2012, 09:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whynot

The question should be if is a better investment option. Spend the $200M retraining the workers into mining related roles and make a few billion tax more. It is a political bailout.

What makes you think the mining industry is a big employer, sure it might pay more but it is a minnow in the employment stakes in Australia.

The Monty · 22-03-2012, 07:14 AM

Well there you go. $200 million in tax over the next 10 years. So the government is basically getting no revenue from the employees, but rather taking the money from tax from the business. Im assuming Holden and Ford would be on the Carbon tax list, so when you take into account the amount of money the company is still going to be paying in tax, just by keeping it open, it still makes financial sense to do it.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monty

Well there you go. $200 million in tax over the next 10 years. So the government is basically getting no revenue from the employees, but rather taking the money from tax from the business. Im assuming Holden and Ford would be on the Carbon tax list, so when you take into account the amount of money the company is still going to be paying in tax, just by keeping it open, it still makes financial sense to do it.

Without funding, you could import and sell the same number of cars, that's the argument
put by anti-local manufacturing advocates who post here:
"All the tax generated gets fed back into the industry instead of the government coffers
- it's just job creation really."

I don't subscribe to this belief btw...

vanman_75 · 22-03-2012, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpd80

Without funding, you could import and sell the same number of cars, that's the argument
put by anti-local manufacturing advocates who post here:
"All the tax generated gets fed back into the industry instead of the government coffers
- it's just job creation really."

I don't subscribe to this belief btw...

And also the fact of no job equals more people on doll cues , not financeing cars , buying homes, money on holidays .etc etc any job lost in this country is bad news , and the cost of subsidies to holden / ford / Toyota are worth every penny ..
Makes me wonder what dreamworld some people live in ?
I would like to see someone reverse the math and work out the true loss in these areas , it would be staggering I imagine.

svo supporter · 22-03-2012, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanman_75

And also the fact of no job equals more people on doll cues , not financeing cars , buying homes, money on holidays .etc etc any job lost in this country is bad news , and the cost of subsidies to holden / ford / Toyota are worth every penny ..
Makes me wonder what dreamworld some people live in ?
I would like to see someone reverse the math and work out the true loss in these areas , it would be staggering I imagine.

You need to look past Holden itself before making these statements.

You have the suppliers to Holden.

You have the businesses round the manufacturing plant that rely on that company to keep their doors open.

I worked round the area and when Holden reduced the shifts, business took a sharp nosedive, because Holden's emploees had no idwea what their future held, therefore shut their wallets up tighter than a fishes you know what.

These places PAY tax, keep people employed, therefore OFF the dole.

So I'd be thinking before opening thy mouth.

Nikked · 22-03-2012, 07:21 AM

200mil gets a new car built?

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nikked

200mil gets a new car built?

$200 million funding normally requires a $600 million commitment from Holden so $800 million to
prop up local manufacturing for 10 years...or will they come back in 2016 wanting more cash?
But that doesn't account for funding for Cruze II which will need around another $150 million in the next two or so years.

I swear Holden and Ford are masters at getting funding out of governments...

Nikked · 22-03-2012, 07:58 AM

It will be a RWD model...Zeta based

BlueOvalPrint · 22-03-2012, 08:03 AM

Why isnt the headline "Commodore dead in 2016" instead of "Holden gets $200m"? If it was Ford, that's how Drive would have skewed the story...

My money is on the replacement being a locally built (fwd) Malibu...

Resurrection · 22-03-2012, 08:22 AM

This will nail it for the Falcon - Ford will also kill the Falcon now that their rival has gone.

phillyc · 22-03-2012, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueOvalPrint

Why isnt the headline "Commodore dead in 2016" instead of "Holden gets $200m"? If it was Ford, that's how Drive would have skewed the story...

My money is on the replacement being a locally built (fwd) Malibu...

Couldn't be more spot on about Drive et all. It was the Falcon it would be skewed that way. In fact, skew is too light a word. The headline would be massive bold writing. It would be mentioned in the first and last sentence of the article and every paragraph too all whilst proclaiming how the Commodore survived. Heck any story that is automotive related would have it tied in needlessly.

But it ISN'T the Falcon confirmed as dead. COMMODORE is DEAD 2016. So, they gloss over it.

PS I support the co-investment that is made by Government and the Auto industry. We absolutely need manufacturing, parcticularly high level value added in Australia.

jpd80 · 22-03-2012, 12:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by phillyc

Couldn't be more spot on about Drive et all. It was the Falcon it would be skewed that way. In fact, skew is too light a word. The headline would be massive bold writing. It would be mentioned in the first and last sentence of the article and every paragraph too all whilst proclaiming how the Commodore survived. Heck any story that is automotive related would have it tied in needlessly.

But it ISN'T the Falcon confirmed as dead. COMMODORE is DEAD 2016. So, they gloss over it.

PS I support the co-investment that is made by Government and the Auto industry. We absolutely need manufacturing, parcticularly high level value added in Australia.

I'm betting Commodore replacement will be Alpha platform and based on floor pan for next Cadillac CTSV,
therefore meaning about same internal room as VZ Commodore but with shorter overhangs.

Jury is still out on Ford, Global platform offers huge here and now lift in features with less developemnt costs.
Ina crude perspective, adding a Mustang front end module to an AWd Fusion/Mondeo would give an efficient RWD.

Ford has several options, it just depends which one suits best and how much cash the government is willing to splash...

Moby Vic · 23-03-2012, 02:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueOvalPrint

Why isnt the headline "Commodore dead in 2016" instead of "Holden gets $200m"? If it was Ford, that's how Drive would have skewed the story...

My money is on the replacement being a locally built (fwd) Malibu...

I agree on both counts.

US cars are going to be getting smaller for a while. We have new fuel economy regulations coming in. The Malibu could very well be Chevy's largest car by 2016.

jpd80 · 23-03-2012, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moby Vic

I agree on both counts.

US cars are going to be getting smaller for a while. We have new fuel economy regulations coming in. The Malibu could very well be Chevy's largest car by 2016.

I'll be interested to see the 2014 Impala being released at the NY Auto show (?)
I believe that will be the signal for GM buyers to rediscover a segment that fell into disrepair under Lutz

GMNA could have taken the initial Zeta based Impala for years before switching to the 2014 car,
its unique wheelbase between Commodore and Caprice would have made it a perfect fit for USA.