Is it a stupid idea to have a performance car now days?

[Sprint]

I mean honestly us "car enthusiest" have been picked on alot lately, we are now depected as criminals on adds on tv if we even "creep" above the speed limit, even though i have worked at a mojor car company and they say there speedo error is 10% + or - but polices is under 5%.

Anyway the reason i want to debate this is South Australia has now revamped its speeding fines due to community complaints.

now if you going under 10km over the speed limit you only get a $210 fine instead of $310.

But now if your going 40km over a speed limit you get a $900 fine.

On the massive price of these fines unless your mega rich, how can anyone thats not rich afford a sports performance vehicle or infact any vehicle that can speed(which is everything even push bikes,skate boards).

one press of the loud pedal and its $1000 fine, car crushed threats and whatever.

Has society gone too far, or not far enough?

Im questioning my ownership of these sports cars as i fear even driving them as i may get pulled out of my car and branded a criminal on looks of my car alone.

I think these adverts and police crack downs has gone too far, one would need a shrink if i was a kid looking at those adds.

Debate?

[Jim Goose]

Its the average motorist who speeds.... not just "car enthusiets".

The problem as you say is that advertising and the do-gooders push the hooning agenda continuously that your believing whats being said.

Go for a long distance drive on a highway and spot the speeders...
4WDs.... P plate girls/ boys in their hyundai..... station wagons... sedans... trucks (yea speed limited).....

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Its the average motorist who speeds.... not just "car enthusiets".

The problem as you say is that advertising and the do-gooders push the hooning agenda continuously that your believing whats being said.

Go for a long distance drive on a highway and spot the speeders...
4WDs.... P plate girls/ boys in their hyundai..... station wagons... sedans... trucks (yea speed limited).....

thats what im saying, ive seen old grannies get pulled over and harrassed by cops.

Once they single you out,what you guna do?

I think they have grown depenable on the "Revinue", if they dont grow in money each year they will die off?yet there aim is to lower crime?

I dont know about you, but i havent got a spare 200-$300 if im only doing 5km over.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by Sprint

thats what im saying, ive seen old grannies get pulled over and harrassed by cops.

Once they single you out,what you guna do?

I think they have grown depenable on the "Revinue", if they dont grow in money each year they will die off?yet there aim is to lower crime?

I dont know about you, but i havent got a spare 200-$300 if im only doing 5km over.

Vote them out and let them know why.
Then let the new ones know that if they continue with it you will vote them out next time.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by flappist

Vote them out and let them know why.
Then let the new ones know that if they continue with it you will vote them out next time.

Cambell Newman's government has sent a directive that zero tolerance is to be imposed for speeding infringements,
people felt the sting in Bellbowrie this week being pulled over for between 72 and 75 kph in a 70 kph zone.
Sounded an odd directive to me but apparently that's the word...

[flappist]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Cambell Newman's government has sent a directive that zero tolerance is to be imposed for speeding infringements,
people felt the sting in Bellbowrie this week being pulled over for between 72 and 75 kph in a 70 kph zone.
Sounded an odd directive to me but apparently that's the word...

If this is the case the solution is to make it personal.

While he has a HUGE majority most of the Government are first timers which means if they lose their seat next time they get NOTHING from the gravy train.

Approach your local and let him know that if it continues you will spend as much time, effort and money as you possibly can to make sure the he/she personally is not re-elected. Not the party but them PERSONALLY.

Remember the whole system runs on votes in the parliament and the method of controlling members is by the whip threatening their future.

Fight fire with fire.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by jpd80

Cambell Newman's government has sent a directive that zero tolerance is to be imposed for speeding infringements,
people felt the sting in Bellbowrie this week being pulled over for between 72 and 75 kph in a 70 kph zone.
Sounded an odd directive to me but apparently that's the word...

He can issue all the directives he likes about zero tolerance - all it's going to do is clog up the courts when his directive is at odds with the law.
Anyone pulled over and fined for 72-75 in a 70 zone should not pay it.

[Jim Goose]

There is also "police discretion"... depends what you were doing, your attitude towards the cop, how many other people hes pulled over today, did the previous motorist abuse the cop, etc etc....

While Police in QLD say there is "zero tolerance" and no "leeway", I have always driven to a max of 10% of the posted limit....eg..110 in a 100 zone etc... driven past many mobile patrol cars and hand held lasers and not once been pulled over.

Speed camera tolerances are different im told... but that depends on the operator too (so im told lol).

But if your doing 100kmh in a 60zone... then sorry im afraid you deserve to have as many points taken away from you and a massive fine. Suburbia is not a place to go nuts with speed.....

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

But if your doing 100kmh in a 60zone... then sorry im afraid you deserve to have as many points taken away from you and a massive fine. Suburbia is not a place to go nuts with speed.....

Agree on this part but its the 5m over and treated like a criminal(even on adds now) i dont like.

I mean if you hit someone and hurt them(god forbid) and you going to kill yourself because you was .000135 km over the limit?

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

There is also "police discretion"... depends what you were doing, your attitude towards the cop, how many other people hes pulled over today, did the previous motorist abuse the cop, etc etc....

While Police in QLD say there is "zero tolerance" and no "leeway", I have always driven to a max of 10% of the posted limit....eg..110 in a 100 zone etc... driven past many mobile patrol cars and hand held lasers and not once been pulled over.

Speed camera tolerances are different im told... but that depends on the operator too (so im told lol).

But if your doing 100kmh in a 60zone... then sorry im afraid you deserve to have as many points taken away from you and a massive fine. Suburbia is not a place to go nuts with speed.....

I do the same thing and ive not once had a fine for being over and have also driven passed numerous speed vans.

As for my fine a while back, yeah i copped it.

[Kable72]

IT is revenue raising at its finest. The vast majority of the population will not believe or even see that it is revenue raising as they have the mentality that if you're over the limit by 2 or 3 kms that children die, the world is torn asunder and WW3 will break out.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by Sprint

I mean honestly us "car enthusiest" have been picked on alot lately, we are now depected as criminals on adds on tv if we even "creep" above the speed limit, even though i have worked at a mojor car company and they say there speedo error is 10% + or - but polices is under 5%.
Not withstanding the above, it is the drivers responsibility to ensure compliance with speed restrictions
and statutory regulations enacted by government departments.

That spec has changed, LINK

The accuracy of vehicle speedos is covered by Australian Design Rule 18. Until July 2006 this rule specified an accuracy of +/- 10 percent of the vehicle’s true speed when the vehicle was travelling above 40km/h.

That is, at a true vehicle speed of 100km/h the speedo was allowed to indicate between 90km/h and 110km/h.

An odometer accuracy of +/- 4 percent was also a requirement.

From 1 July 2006 newly introduced models of a vehicle available on the market must comply with ADR 18/03. Also, from 1 July 2007 any newly manufactured vehicle (excluding mopeds) must comply with this rule.

This new rule requires that the speedo must not indicate a speed less than the vehicle’s true speed or a speed greater than the vehicle’s true speed by an amount more than 10 percent plus 4 km/h. Significantly, this change means that speedos must always read 'safe', meaning that the vehicle's true speed must not be higher than the speed indicated by the speedo.

That is, at a true vehicle speed of 100km/h the speedo must read between 100km/h and 114km/h. An alternative way to look at it is; at an indicated speed of 100km/h, the vehicle's true speed must be between 86 km/h and 100km/h.

Significantly, this change means that speedos must always read ‘safe’, meaning that they are not permitted to read lower than the actual speed of the vehicle.

Additionally, there is now no requirement to have an odometer, and therefore there is no accuracy requirement.

This change was made to align Australian vehicle rules with those already in place in Europe.

Note that some vehicle manufacturers chose to comply with the new rule before 1 July 2006. This is acceptable.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The AS code does not say speedo error can be plus or minus 10%, it says either zero (dead on) to a max of - 10% (read fast)
so that no one can claim OEM speedos caused them to speed.

The standard for speedo error changed in 2006? or there abouts...
prior to that it was plus or minus 10%.

[Sprint]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The standard for speedo error changed in 2006? or there abouts...
prior to that it was plus or minus 10%.

On pre electronic speedos

[2011G6E]

Have a look at the cars they confiscate during hoon crackdowns...the last one they proudly had in the Rocky paper showed the impound yard, and there was a ratty old Camry, a couple of old Falcons and Commodores (No VN's surprisingly enough... ), an older model Hilux, and a couple of other very vanilla cars...no highly modded WRX's, no Skylines, no Silvias or other stereotypically "hoonish" cars.

As for road rules, we need them. Look around you at the average "standard" of a lot of drivers on the road...would you really like them to have more freedom to drive faster with less punishment? I would wager for every one good driver, there are two "OK" drivers out there, and for them, there's probably another two or three "hopeless" drivers.

As a train driver, I have to "resit my licence" completely every couple of years. We often jokingly wonder what the roads would look like if they did the same to car and truck drivers...we don't know, but I bet they'd be a lot emptier...

Back on topic: performance cars.
The vast majority of performance cars are bought now by people who drive them like a Toyota Corolla...a family car for going to the shops, tooling around town, etc. Not many people buy performance cars to use as a performance car. They've become, sorry, a bit pointless.

[Jim Goose]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Have a look at the cars they confiscate during hoon crackdowns...the last one they proudly had in the Rocky paper showed the impound yard, and there was a ratty old Camry, a couple of old Falcons and Commodores (No VN's surprisingly enough... ), an older model Hilux, and a couple of other very vanilla cars...no highly modded WRX's, no Skylines, no Silvias or other stereotypically "hoonish" cars.

As for road rules, we need them. Look around you at the average "standard" of a lot of drivers on the road...would you really like them to have more freedom to drive faster with less punishment? I would wager for every one good driver, there are two "OK" drivers out there, and for them, there's probably another two or three "hopeless" drivers.

As a train driver, I have to "resit my licence" completely every couple of years. We often jokingly wonder what the roads would look like if they did the same to car and truck drivers...we don't know, but I bet they'd be a lot emptier...

Back on topic: performance cars.
The vast majority of performance cars are bought now by people who drive them like a Toyota Corolla...a family car for going to the shops, tooling around town, etc. Not many people buy performance cars to use as a performance car. They've become, sorry, a bit pointless.

True, but then you see a lot of soccer moms with massive 4WDs who never go offroad... (watch them at shopping center car parks where they do a 10 point car park... in out in out... then wonder why do you own one and cant park it?).

And yes a lot of owners of Performance cars probably never see the open highway much either as they simply get driven to and from work... but people buy them to "look cool"...

And yes as for the cars which Police sell at auction, here in Townsville the last two auctions have just had total ***** boxes, not one i would even call a "performance" car

[malazn mafia]

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Have a look at the cars they confiscate during hoon crackdowns...the last one they proudly had in the Rocky paper showed the impound yard, and there was a ratty old Camry, a couple of old Falcons and Commodores (No VN's surprisingly enough... ), an older model Hilux, and a couple of other very vanilla cars...no highly modded WRX's, no Skylines, no Silvias or other stereotypically "hoonish" cars.

Hmm maybe because them highly modded WRX's, skylines, silvias will blow the socks off any SS highway patrol boat and vanish into some remote warehouse or garage (or wrap around a pole, depending on driver skill) before mr plod can call for backup.

[flappist]

Originally Posted by malazn mafia

Hmm maybe because them highly modded WRX's, skylines, silvias will blow the socks off any SS highway patrol boat and vanish into some remote warehouse or garage (or wrap around a pole, depending on driver skill) before mr plod can call for backup.

You really do have to stop watching "Fast and the Furious".

VERY few outrun Police and those who do are almost always known, especially in a small city like Rockvegas.

Do not, for one second, underestimate the skill and passion of Highway Patrol officers. All they do all day every day is observe cars and drivers not because it is their job but because the love every minute of it.

They know far more about you and your car(s) than you realise and if you play up they will remember and sort it later. They also talk to each other a LOT on the radio which is how you get rolled for unlicensed or whatever even though you are in someone else's car and behaving.

[pottery beige]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really do have to stop watching "Fast and the Furious".

VERY few outrun Police and those who do are almost always known, especially in a small city like Rockvegas.

Do not, for one second, underestimate the skill and passion of Highway Patrol officers. All they do all day every day is observe cars and drivers not because it is their job but because the love every minute of it.

They know far more about you and your car(s) than you realise and if you play up they will remember and sort it later. They also talk to each other a LOT on the radio which is how you get rolled for unlicensed or whatever even though you are in someone else's car and behaving.

yep.. you make it into their top 10 dh list you wont even know youre being watched..

[DJM83]

Originally Posted by flappist

You really do have to stop watching "Fast and the Furious".

VERY few outrun Police and those who do are almost always known, especially in a small city like Rockvegas.

Do not, for one second, underestimate the skill and passion of Highway Patrol officers. All they do all day every day is observe cars and drivers not because it is their job but because the love every minute of it.

They know far more about you and your car(s) than you realise and if you play up they will remember and sort it later. They also talk to each other a LOT on the radio which is how you get rolled for unlicensed or whatever even though you are in someone else's car and behaving.

I do have a funny story that contradicts that Flappy, although as it happened though i dunno if it was me or my mate that they intended as we were both in the wrong driving the same colour and make of car. Funny now but wasnt on the day. Lucky my car is slow

I agree 100% with what you say though. Just because you get away doesnt mean you will get away. See 99% of cars have whats called a number plate that belongs to their car and it is easily traceable.

[DJM83]

Been pulled over once in my car and had 2 fines in my driving career (one fairly hefty, loss of license etc) and copped it sweet.
Recently i was pulled over due to my own doing and was very lucky.

Ill admit sometimes you get the red mist on and before you know it your into suspension territory.
Also i dont IMVHO think that the fines/suspensions fit the crimes. Thing is as Goose said its not just enthusiasts it can be anyone. Unfortunately people that own cars that are of a performance nature will try and 'test' the performance at some stage. For me 90% of my driving is within the limits.

Originally Posted by Sprint

But now if your going 40km over a speed limit you get a $900 fine.

My fine 10 years ago for doing 54 over (Yeah i know it was stupid) was another $600 on top of that

[Sprint]

If only it was that easy to vote em out.


I mean why even look at a xr6 turbo? the things a missile and will get you into jail in 45 seconds.

I think its a conudrome(spelling?) that they even make speedo's go to 220+, they push adds on tv about perfomace, Hell a gsxr can break the 130kmh NT speed limit in first gear and have 6 gears to go.

there are deeper issues to the whole thing :/

[Brazen]

I think it makes owning a less powerful car more attractive. I honestly believe if we had the speeding leniency like the rest of the world more Falcons and Commodores would be sold.

[xisled]

I think you need to stop worrying about what everyone else thinks of you. If you enjoy what your drive that should be enough.

I think the police will only target you if you are doing something stupid.

I drive my FPV GT had it for a couple years now, and drive it daily and have never been pulled over.

But When I was younger I did have a 1980 Cortina. Used to get pulled over every second day. Now that was not a performance car, it was only a 4 banger, but it was the way I used to drive it that made the difference.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by xisled

I think you need to stop worrying about what everyone else thinks of you. If you enjoy what your drive that should be enough.

I think the police will only target you if you are doing something stupid.

I drive my FPV GT had it for a couple years now, and drive it daily and have never been pulled over.

But When I was younger I did have a 1980 Cortina. Used to get pulled over every second day. Now that was not a performance car, it was only a 4 banger, but it was the way I used to drive it that made the difference.

Exactly. A lot of us can attest to that learning experience..

[hendrixhc]

Funnily enough i have a citroen work van and at 100kph on the clock it is actually doing 92kph. I have taken it back to the dealer and they said it is within tolerance and wont repair it.

We have to other vans ( citroen) and they both read the same discrepancy.

So whats the issue? I am not speeding sure and "driving" slower than the recommended speed but if you have ever sat on the freeway in peak hour doing the correct speed on the clock the abuse you cop is phenomenal.

I set the cruise to 116kph and it sits on 110 on the gps. ( been checked with3 different GPS).

If there is a serious attempt to curb idiots on the road get out on the freeway at peak hour and pull over the gooses that believe tail gating and 130kph is the correct speed limit.

As for performance cars i learnt years ago when i had the latest model WRX that you dont even have to be a DH in it to be pulled over regularly. Whilst never booked for any offences i was pulled over at least 6 times for a range of excuses like reg and license check, tried to defect it 2 weeks after buying it, are you in a hurry mate ( doing the speed limit) etc.

It doesnt pay to have any car that sticks out in a crowd cause you a re just asking for trouble.

At the moment i am doing up an XE 351. I dont want it to be stock but i am hesitant to modify to much cause i dont want the HF's of constantly being pulled over.

[Mad_Pom]

Originally Posted by hendrixhc

Funnily enough i have a citroen work van and at 100kph on the clock it is actually doing 92kph. I have taken it back to the dealer and they said it is within tolerance and wont repair it.

We have to other vans ( citroen) and they both read the same discrepancy.

So whats the issue? I am not speeding sure and "driving" slower than the recommended speed but if you have ever sat on the freeway in peak hour doing the correct speed on the clock the abuse you cop is phenomenal.

I set the cruise to 116kph and it sits on 110 on the gps. ( been checked with3 different GPS).

If there is a serious attempt to curb idiots on the road get out on the freeway at peak hour and pull over the gooses that believe tail gating and 130kph is the correct speed limit.

As for performance cars i learnt years ago when i had the latest model WRX that you dont even have to be a DH in it to be pulled over regularly. Whilst never booked for any offences i was pulled over at least 6 times for a range of excuses like reg and license check, tried to defect it 2 weeks after buying it, are you in a hurry mate ( doing the speed limit) etc.

It doesnt pay to have any car that sticks out in a crowd cause you a re just asking for trouble.

At the moment i am doing up an XE 351. I dont want it to be stock but i am hesitant to modify to much cause i dont want the HF's of constantly being pulled over.

The current ADR 18 states that the speedo can NEVER display a speed less than the vehicle is traveling and can over read by 10%. So at a true speed of 100km/hr (GPS reading) the display can legally be indicating up to 110 km/hr. Most manufacturers will therefore aim for the middle (5-6%)

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by hendrixhc

It doesnt pay to have any car that sticks out in a crowd cause you a re just asking for trouble.

.

Don't agree with this....I own a crappadore that sticks out like dogs you know whats....The only reason I have ever been pulled up in it is because I've been driving and it comes up registered to my misses. (words right out the coppers mouth).

Ths new fine system is interesting, where they have changed the speed vs fine....I really think it comes down to officers descretion. About 2 months ago, I had a copper pull me up for doing 77 in a 60 zone....Turned left from a corner, going down hill, getting into the right hand lane with traffic coming...

I was polite to him, he used commonsense and realised how I got to the speed as quick as I did, so he let me of with a verbal warning....This is why I say, descretion...

The same would apply having a performance car....Use commonsense, and you shouldn't have any problems.

[Hell Cat]

Originally Posted by hendrixhc

Funnily enough i have a citroen work van and at 100kph on the clock it is actually doing 92kph. I have taken it back to the dealer and they said it is within tolerance and wont repair it.

We have to other vans ( citroen) and they both read the same discrepancy.

So whats the issue? I am not speeding sure and "driving" slower than the recommended speed but if you have ever sat on the freeway in peak hour doing the correct speed on the clock the abuse you cop is phenomenal.

I set the cruise to 116kph and it sits on 110 on the gps. ( been checked with3 different GPS).

If there is a serious attempt to curb idiots on the road get out on the freeway at peak hour and pull over the gooses that believe tail gating and 130kph is the correct speed limit.

As for performance cars i learnt years ago when i had the latest model WRX that you dont even have to be a DH in it to be pulled over regularly. Whilst never booked for any offences i was pulled over at least 6 times for a range of excuses like reg and license check, tried to defect it 2 weeks after buying it, are you in a hurry mate ( doing the speed limit) etc.

It doesnt pay to have any car that sticks out in a crowd cause you a re just asking for trouble.

At the moment i am doing up an XE 351. I dont want it to be stock but i am hesitant to modify to much cause i dont want the HF's of constantly being pulled over.

I hope that's the case.

I have a current model diesel Citroen van, last week I drove past an unmarked speed camera (only realised as I was directly beside it) in a 60 zone, when I looked at my speedo I was smack bang on 65km 66 at the very most.... I've been checking the letterbox everyday & haven't gotten a ticket in the mail yet.


Unfortunately I've had 2 speeding tickets in the past 2.5 years, each time in my work van, the ticket said 66 km in a 60zone (both times going down hill on a main road)


I live in a narrow quite street & there are 2 particular cars (busted old Gemini & a Camry) that smash it each time they drive down the street.. It's annoying because there are always people out & about (people walking, kids playing) in my neighbourhood.



A guy from work (40) just got a 2004ish commodore ss & has been bragging about how he has been getting it sideways etc.


I guess I'm abit off topic.

[J.C.]

Originally Posted by Hell Cat

A guy from work (40) just got a 2004ish commodore ss & has been bragging about how he has been getting it sideways etc.


.

The two texts in bold in your quote leads me to believe only one thing about your 40yr old buddy at work.

One + the other = knobhead!