You Don't own MY Reality

[Crazy Dazz]

In the world in general, and even in this forum, I am getting sick and tried of the Thought Police.

Much of life is based on opinions, or at best theories. Even where there are immutable laws of Maths, Physics, and Logic, a person's ability to perceive them can be limited. Meaning that they remain limited to their opinion.

And that's fine. Opinions are like Farts. Everyone has one, and it's only other peoples' that stink.

And yet it seems that so much effort today is dedicated to trying to control what other people think.
In my personal opinion, if you were born with an X chromosome, you are a Man. That's my opinion, and nobody has any right to demand that I change. If somebody else chooses to think differently, that too is their opinion, and they are similarly entitled.
If I were to advertise for say a house-mate, and I refused to consider a trans-person, that is my right.
If I were able to bake (edible) cakes, I reserve the right to bake or not bake any cake I so choose.

When I'm hiring somebody, on behalf of my Employer, then I'm bound to comply with their policies (and if I can't tolerate them I can quit) so I might hire such a person, and behave in a totally friendly and professional manner, because my personal opinion is not at issue. But as long as my personal opinions don't interfere, nobody has the right to demand I change.

Similarly, you don't own my language. If I choose to say "Mary likes her new car", as opposed to "their", that is not your "pronoun", that is my language.
as to whether or not you find that offensive, IMHO that's situational. If I had a friend or colleague that asked me to use "they", I would make the effort.
But if some celebrity-twat chooses to take offence at people's use of language, then I really don't give a ****.

People also need to understand that having a right to an opinion, does not include "protection" from the right of somebody else to have a contrary opinion.

[Metdevil]

[shedcoupe]

Jeez Dazz maybe X = Y = man driving an XY.
Sheilapersons are XX (though some are XXX apparently) and blokepersons are XY (or if they’re really blokey they’re XYY).
Allegedly

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

Jeez Dazz maybe X = Y = man driving an XY.
Sheilapersons are XX (though some are XXX apparently) and blokepersons are XY (or if they’re really blokey they’re XYY).
Allegedly

And Bob is now your auntie


Cheers Billy.

[jaydee]

Hallelujah Crazy Dazz, couldn't agree more.
Just out of control now, everybody gets upset at the slightest utterance because you're offending somebody who identifies as something else.
The world can't allow for every nondescript minority person or group.
Now schools have to have 3 toilets, formal documents are no longer M or F etc.
Sorry, rant over, get a grip JD.

[LG17]

"If I had a friend or colleague that who asked me to..."



Don't hit me, I'm just taking the ****!

[LG17]

At least the Census only has 3 choices - male, female and non-binary sex.
It used to be male, female and other.

[zilo]

Originally Posted by LG17

At least the Census only has 3 choices - male, female and non-binary sex.
It used to be male, female and other.

Should be male,female or deviant.....to be factually correct.


My favorite party trick to break the ice?

"I voted no", now what shall we talk about?

[shedcoupe]

It’s simple.
You’ve got male bits, or female bits, or neither, or both.
In your head you think you’re male, or female, or neither, or both, or you just don’t care, or you identify as a tree, as the Eiffel Tower, or something else.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It’s not about the thought police (and they’re certainly out there) but about what’s actually true.
So start ticking them boxes.

[LG17]

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

It’s simple.
You’ve got male bits, or female bits, or neither, or both.
In your head you think you’re male, or female, or neither, or both, or you just don’t care, or you identify as a tree, as the Eiffel Tower, or something else.
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio, than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
It’s not about the thought police (and they’re certainly out there) but about what’s actually true.
So start ticking them boxes.

Which head?

Originally Posted by shedcoupe

It’s simple.
You’ve got male bits, or female bits, or neither, or both.
In your head you think you’re male, or female, or neither, or both, or you just don’t care, or you identify as a tree, as the Eiffel Tower, or something else.

It would be simple if people were treated the same regardless of what their plumbing is. Gender stereotypes are a problem and plenty of people are tired of being conditioned and told they cant do a/b/c because they're male or x/y/z because theyre female.
I really don't blame people for trying to assign themselves new genders, but really I think what would be a better solution is to dismantle the stereotypes and roles associated with genders rather than invent new genders to shoehorn themselves into.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by leesa

It would be simple if people were treated the same regardless of what their plumbing is. Gender stereotypes are a problem and plenty of people are tired of being conditioned and told they cant do a/b/c because they're male or x/y/z because theyre female.
I really don't blame people for trying to assign themselves new genders, but really I think what would be a better solution is to dismantle the stereotypes and roles associated with genders rather than invent new genders to shoehorn themselves into.

Got to disagree with you, we were always happy being male or female, boy and girl, man and woman!....it was never an issue until they invented this thing called Internet, or iphone!

Now you push a button and suddenly you are looking into someone's bedroom, its just boredom with being a "normal human" these wannabe "stars" or influencers are being fooled by their own self importance and lack of self esteem.


I have always been happy being me, I don't want to project myself as a person who is better or more special than others, we are just human, not GenX or GenY or Rainbow children, or Millenials and the newest Alpha children!
We are male or female, you get the oddity of a hermaphrodite occasionally but basically we are designed to procreate, just like plants and animals!
We are designed to reproduce offspring, nothing else, two women can't produce a child nor can two men


Chilly Beers

[DoubleTrouble]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Got to disagree with you, we were always happy being male or female, boy and girl, man and woman!....it was never an issue until they invented this thing called Internet, or iphone!

Now you push a button and suddenly you are looking into someone's bedroom, its just boredom with being a "normal human" these wannabe "stars" or influencers are being fooled by their own self importance and lack of self esteem.


I have always been happy being me, I don't want to project myself as a person who is better or more special than others, we are just human, not GenX or GenY or Rainbow children, or Millenials and the newest Alpha children!
We are male or female, you get the oddity of a hermaphrodite occasionally but basically we are designed to procreate, just like plants and animals!
We are designed to reproduce offspring, nothing else, two women can't produce a child nor can two men


Chilly Beers

Don't bet on it medical science will disprove you.

[slowsnake]

Originally Posted by DoubleTrouble

Don't bet on it medical science will disprove you.

Am talking natural birth, pregnancy, not a cyborg!

This earth has been reproducing for thousands of years, its only scientific ego crap that has changed it all, dolly the sheep is an example, who wants to produce or breed a soulless shell, ya can copy anything now but ya can't give it "soul"...



Chilly Beers

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Got to disagree with you, we were always happy being male or female, boy and girl, man and woman!....it was never an issue until they invented this thing called Internet, or iphone!

Well no, people were persecuted for being anything other than straight as a die. They used to try and "treat" it with electroshock therapy, hormone therapy, chemical castration and lobotomies, remember? People were just very good at hiding and then no longer needed to when the government-backed prosecution ceased.

If you want to talk about things that the internet is responsible for, let's look at porn-induced erectile dysfunction in young men. Men in their 20s no longer able to have sex with a woman because they've trained their brain to only being able to get an erection watching porn. As if that's not bad enough, then they have to look at increasingly extreme material to get aroused as they've desensitised themselves.

I have always been happy being me, I don't want to project myself as a person who is better or more special than others, we are just human, not GenX or GenY or Rainbow children, or Millenials and the newest Alpha children!

Okay great, you love being you, that's wonderful. But now we've got a bunch of people speaking up saying that they don't love being them because they've been hiding and they want to be the real them, and have society hopefully treat them so. And your response is basically "**** you, you can't tell me what to do, men are men, women are women and that's all there is to it"? You can't be inclusive and wilfully ignorant at the same time.

We are male or female, you get the oddity of a hermaphrodite occasionally but basically we are designed to procreate, just like plants and animals!
We are designed to reproduce offspring, nothing else, two women can't produce a child nor can two men

I'd like to hope you're more than just an animal. Not that I'm speaking on behalf of all women but I think you'll find most women expect men to have evolved a little bit beyond being nothing more than just an animal with base reproductive instincts. There's so much more to life and I hope you get to experience it.

Humans are complex creatures with complex social structures and unfortunately a tendency to condition young boys and girls into their expected gender roles as adults. Most men have been conditioned into not being able to express any emotion other than anger as that's the only socially-acceptable one but it doesn't fly anymore. All these new gender changes will go hand in hand with also dismantling the rigid character roles that men are basically forced to act out and I'd think that a lot of men will be happy about that?

If you're too set in your ways to adapt to new cultural changes in society well that's up to you, noone can do it for for you and tbh noone wants to. If you have people in your life that you argue with over this sort of stuff then they'll probably just stop talking to you instead.

[tweeked]

Originally Posted by leesa

Most men have been conditioned into not being able to express any emotion other than anger as that's the only socially-acceptable one but it doesn't fly anymore.

Wow..........You need to talk to more men. You will be surprised if you go in with an open mind.

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by leesa

Most men have been conditioned into not being able to express any emotion other than anger as that's the only socially-acceptable one but it doesn't fly anymore.

Yeah, but it all pretty much started with most men. And it's quite possible that was because you were excluding the ones that identify differently.

My IT computer geek mates (over the past 40 years, with more and more students being interested in that area over the years, where I was very early) would look at your original argument and think you're clearly off this planet. Sure, at school in the 80's, there were a few males as you describe them, hmm, they left school at year 10 though where most continued. Year 11, there was only one or two and they didn't last. That's more than 30 years ago.

Some people do bring out the worst in others though. Like someone making the comment in the quote above. It's complete garbage.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by leesa

I think you'll find most women expect men to have evolved a little bit beyond being nothing more than just an animal with base reproductive instincts. There's so much more to life and I hope you get to experience it.

What women 'expect' of men?? Shouldnt we free each other from expectation, and instead accept people as they choose to be? Yet men are increasingly subjected to what some feminists have decided men should be like, which conveniently, is to be more like women.

[Feathers]

Originally Posted by slowsnake

Got to disagree with you, we were always happy being male or female, boy and girl, man and woman!....it was never an issue until they invented this thing called Internet, or iphone!

Now you push a button and suddenly you are looking into someone's bedroom, its just boredom with being a "normal human" these wannabe "stars" or influencers are being fooled by their own self importance and lack of self esteem.


I have always been happy being me, I don't want to project myself as a person who is better or more special than others, we are just human, not GenX or GenY or Rainbow children, or Millenials and the newest Alpha children!
We are male or female, you get the oddity of a hermaphrodite occasionally but basically we are designed to procreate, just like plants and animals!
We are designed to reproduce offspring, nothing else, two women can't produce a child nor can two men


Chilly Beers

That's not quite what Leesa was saying though.

As an example; if a woman walks into a doctor's surgery tomorrow, and asks about getting her tubes tied, the doctor will most likely deny her request, especially if she's under 45 and has not had a child already.

The doctor will refuse the request, not because it's unreasonable, or unethical, but because at some time in the future, she may find herself a husband who wants kids.
That's far more important than the woman's quality of life though, right? The possibility that someone else might want to breed with them at an unspecified time in the future.

Meanwhile, her same aged, hypothetical, future husband could request a vasectomy right now, and his doctor would allow it, with very little fuss.

Yet, (depending on the type of procedure), both surgeries can be reversed if the patient changes their mind down the track...so why do women have to fight for their bodily autonomy, and doctor shop until they find someone willing to even consider it, but men don't?

I've experienced similar, asking a specialist to treat me for a condition (let's call it A), while making it very clear that I'm not interested in anything to do with this other related condition (Condition B).
They disregard all of that, and want to start me on treatments to fix Condition B anyway, and if it also happens to do something to ease Condition A, then that's a bonus, but not something they're concerned about.

The treatment that would likely fix Condition A causes birth defects, and though there isn't a snowflakes chance in hell of me becoming pregnant, they STILL won't allow me to have it.

But they WILL give it to men, despite the fact that they could get someone pregnant while on it.

[slowsnake]

Having trouble doing partial Quotes, so I cut and pasted what I wanted.

You state and I quote--"that is not quite what Leesa was saying though" unquote.
What are you a mind reader?....or is Leesa sitting next to you discussing all of this!

QUOTE
I've experienced similar, asking a specialist to treat me for a condition (let's call it A), while making it very clear that I'm not interested in anything to do with this other related condition (Condition B).
They disregard all of that, and want to start me on treatments to fix Condition B anyway, and if it also happens to do something to ease Condition A, then that's a bonus, but not something they're concerned about.


The treatment that would likely fix Condition A causes birth defects, and though there isn't a snowflakes chance in hell of me becoming pregnant, they STILL won't allow me to have it.

But they WILL give it to men, despite the fact that they could get someone pregnant while on it...UNQUOTE



I have no idea what you have written above means, its just a hotchpotch of letters and numbers.?...I really don't get what it is that Leesa is not saying but you are saying it for her!...I know what she posted I read it!


Cheers Billy

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Feathers

That's not quite what Leesa was saying though.

As an example; if a woman walks into a doctor's surgery tomorrow, and asks about getting her tubes tied, the doctor will most likely deny her request, especially if she's under 45 and has not had a child already.

The doctor will refuse the request, not because it's unreasonable, or unethical, but because at some time in the future, she may find herself a husband who wants kids.
That's far more important than the woman's quality of life though, right? The possibility that someone else might want to breed with them at an unspecified time in the future.

Meanwhile, her same aged, hypothetical, future husband could request a vasectomy right now, and his doctor would allow it, with very little fuss.

..

Are you sure about this?

I had a work colleague who wanted to get a vasectomy and the doctor refused for the same reasons that you stated against women.

In my experiences also, which I acknowledge are not exactly the same, but if a couple want to have a more permanent form of contraception within their relationship I have found that doctors are advocating that the male get a vasectomy and not the female having her tubes cut and tied.

[JC]

Originally Posted by leesa

It would be simple if people were treated the same regardless of what their plumbing is. Gender stereotypes are a problem and plenty of people are tired of being conditioned and told they cant do a/b/c because they're male or x/y/z because theyre female.
I really don't blame people for trying to assign themselves new genders, but really I think what would be a better solution is to dismantle the stereotypes and roles associated with genders rather than invent new genders to shoehorn themselves into.

There are 2 genders. Male and female. If you are moving from one to the other, you are in transition, which is part of a process of moving from M to F or vice versa. It is not a gender.

If you are queer, gay, lesbian, whatever, that is not gender, that is sexual preference. And who cares what your preference is.

[Adamz Ghia]

Originally Posted by JC

There are 2 genders. Male and female. If you are moving from one to the other, you are in transition, which is part of a process of moving from M to F or vice versa. It is not a gender.

If you are queer, gay, lesbian, whatever, that is not gender, that is sexual preference. And who cares what your preference is.

Gender is a man made construct, there can be as many as we want there to be (Personally I stick with male and female, but I don’t care what you want to call yourself). Sex however, there is two. And you’re born what you’re born and will forever be that way. You can change your gender, but you can never change your sex.

On what Leesa was saying about how most men will try and rip people off, the women at the jewellery shop and florist shaft me good and propper every time I go in, what does that say about women??

[roKWiz]

I think this needs to be placed here........

[shedcoupe]

Not if he / she / it / they / other is XXY. ;-)

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

In my personal opinion, if you were born with an X chromosome, you are a Man. That's my opinion, and nobody has any right to demand that I change.

'nuff said really.

[Cav]

I hear ya.

I am continually corrected when I tell people I is good lookin'

Bastards!

[Citroënbender]

I may not own his reality, but I’m shorting the derivatives.

[DoubleTrouble]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

In the world in general, and even in this forum, I am getting sick and tried of the Thought Police.

Much of life is based on opinions, or at best theories. Even where there are immutable laws of Maths, Physics, and Logic, a person's ability to perceive them can be limited. Meaning that they remain limited to their opinion.

And that's fine. Opinions are like Farts. Everyone has one, and it's only other peoples' that stink.

And yet it seems that so much effort today is dedicated to trying to control what other people think.
In my personal opinion, if you were born with an X chromosome, you are a Man. That's my opinion, and nobody has any right to demand that I change. If somebody else chooses to think differently, that too is their opinion, and they are similarly entitled.
If I were to advertise for say a house-mate, and I refused to consider a trans-person, that is my right.
If I were able to bake (edible) cakes, I reserve the right to bake or not bake any cake I so choose.

When I'm hiring somebody, on behalf of my Employer, then I'm bound to comply with their policies (and if I can't tolerate them I can quit) so I might hire such a person, and behave in a totally friendly and professional manner, because my personal opinion is not at issue. But as long as my personal opinions don't interfere, nobody has the right to demand I change.

Similarly, you don't own my language. If I choose to say "Mary likes her new car", as opposed to "their", that is not your "pronoun", that is my language.
as to whether or not you find that offensive, IMHO that's situational. If I had a friend or colleague that asked me to use "they", I would make the effort.
But if some celebrity-twat chooses to take offence at people's use of language, then I really don't give a ****.

People also need to understand that having a right to an opinion, does not include "protection" from the right of somebody else to have a contrary opinion.

You do know the WOKE crowd will not like your opinion!

[ford71V8]

The first generation to give a crap about what a pronoun is.

Gotta look at the positives