FORD will never outshine Holden-no matter what they do?

GTP-03 · 30-07-2009, 09:47 PM

Im 37 years old, I was a Holden fan, my 2nd car was an EJ Holden, my third car was a HQ Holden. I loved Holdens I thought they were the greatest cars on the road, I honestly didnt give a stuff about Fords when I was younger, that was until I started reading about GTs and GTHOs in Street machine magazines.
I was amazed how they outgunned Holdens in the late 60s and early 70s and I was geniunly suprised that Holdens werent as quick as Fords in there respective models, I was a little confused and slightly mad that the brand I so closely followed werent the greatest and fastest cars off there time, althought they looked good, they were slower than Fords, this was suprising news!
I started reading more and more about Fords, mainly on GT Falcons, I started
going to GT days and then when I saw the cover of a Street Machine magazine in the 1993, the title said "KING COUPE". The car was the most menacing, toughest, imposing,threatning BEAST ever to grace the cover of Street Machine magazine ever in my opinion, It was a black XA GT coupe with a great big twin 4 barreled carbed engine sticking out the bonnet, I was hooked on Fords now, in particular modified GTs!
I now owned a Ford,(4.9 xc Fairmont), which I spent a lot of time and money modifying, I loved this car, I thought it was such a leap forward from my HQ and it now had a 351, 9 inch, lowered, GT bonnet, pearl blue paint, and the list goes on.
There was a problem though, the car was great to me, but every time I went on a cruise, there would always be more Holdens than Fords in the cruises. People would comment buy a Holden, time and time again! My mates were all into Commodores and modified Kingswoods, Premiers and Monaros! There was something wrong!
That feeling reoccured time after time, when the AU came out I thought I was the only Ford fan in the state, especially when we were getting cained in the V8s month after month, thankfully Ambrose came along and saved the next few years along with the new BA model, but now I have all those bad feelings all over again with Lowndes and the whole 888 team moving to Holden.
No matter what GM and Holden do, they never loose support, where as Ford never seem to have any, how the hell does Ford survive? Why the hell am I such a big Ford fan? The cars that attracted to me te Ford were a limited build which were made 30-40 years ago?
Why do Holden have so much support? We know our Fords are a better product but everyone seems to think they are superior? WHY?
Are we dilusional as Ford fans? Should we just give in and join the majority of people and just become Holden fans? Why do Holden outshine Ford nearly everytime? Somebody please tell me!!!

Mr X · 30-07-2009, 09:52 PM

Marketing........eg Brock,or "We're with you in the hard times" tv ads,or my grandad owned an FJ-simple as that.

Ford have a lot to learn re: marketing and their history is nothing to be ashamed of.

Ghiadude · 30-07-2009, 09:56 PM

clever marketing. thats all, nothing else.

DanielXR8 · 31-07-2009, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tx3dude

clever marketing. thats all, nothing else.

Not sure about that tx3dude. The dealer principal of the Ford dealer where I lived, did a fantastic job of showing me and others why we shouldnt own another Ford.

Holden got some free sales referrals from him I'm sure. Toyota and Mazda certainly did.

pks54 · 30-07-2009, 10:01 PM

Because we are football, meatpies, kangaroos and Holden cars..............

bathurst77 · 31-07-2009, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pks54

Because we are football, meatpies, kangaroos and Holden cars..............

Interestingly even that slogan isnt Australian.
It was originally
Baseball, Hot Dogs, Apple Pie and Chevrolet,

It was soo succesful in getting the idea that chev IS usa that they exported it all over the world.
I know South africa had a version too.

GT0132 · 31-07-2009, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pks54

Because we are football, meatpies, kangaroos and Holden cars..............

Agree with PKS54 there.

Holden is a brand synonomous with being Australian and there is a lot of history in the Holden brand associated with Australia and being Australian.

There is no such thing with the Ford brand, nor was there with Chrysler when Australia had that other big family car in its line up, the mighty Valiant.

I'm a blue oval man through and through but we gotta face reality and realise that Holden is a bit more than just a car manufacturer, it's symbolic of the Australian way of life whether we like it or not....Has been for decades

You can even ask a group of New Zealanders what make of car they associate most with Australians and 9 times out of 10 their answer will be Holden

jaydee · 30-07-2009, 10:05 PM

Yep GTP03, I'm a bit older but have a similar story. Grew up with Holdens, heard about this mighty legend called a GT, fastest 4 door production car in the world.
Brought an ex patrol car, an XC 351 in 1981, still got it and love driving it everyday.
Now days all you hear is HSV etc etc.
Ford have well and truly missed the boat capitalising on their great product.
Football, meat pies, kangaroos and Holden cars, Hey Charger.
You can have any colour you want as long as it's black, Henry Ford.

FPV+fteT3 · 30-07-2009, 10:20 PM

I have never owned a holden, never will cant even remember ever driving one funny but I feel as you do no matter what I will always have a ford, mind you it has to be the right one not some euro, econo model it has to be a falcon cant explain it but thru thick and thin ford is best. Yes we are always out numbered at the pub even camry owners love holden. Why?
Holden are the best at spin and brainwashing but not the best product.
Holden marketing is amazing to sell some of the crap they make in the numbers they do must be a lot of bogans out there.

GTP-03 · 30-07-2009, 10:08 PM

Ford AUS invented the ute!!!! WE made them here and shipped em overseas!! How many people know that fact?

XAJKX · 30-07-2009, 10:09 PM

20 years of Ford Australia Management Mistakes doesn't help.

Dropping the V8 engine in the 80s
Dropping sponsorship to the V8 series
The EA Falcon
The AU Falcon
Not giving people a product they can be proud to own for years and years.

Dont blame marketing altogether, the bad decisions are plenty and come from the top.

Ford only recently started getting it right thanks to Geoff Polites.

uranium_death · 30-07-2009, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XAJKX

20 years of Ford Australia Management Mistakes doesn't help.

The AU Falcon
Not giving people a product they can be proud to own for years and years.

Dont blame marketing altogether, the bad decisions are plenty and come from the top.

Ford only recently started getting it right thanks to Geoff Polites.

I do not think the AU was a mistake.
The AUII and III were quite reliable and solid.
I just came back from a tennis committee meeting. I drive a VTII, while a fellow member, 'Ian' drives an AU. I think the AU looks far, far better and fresher than the VT, and far more sleek. The VTII looks comparatively tired.

When I asked him 'how is he AU' a long time ago, he replied, 'it's the best car I've ever had. Never broken down, and drives beautifully'.

The initial styling was questionable, but I think the AUII and III looked fantastic, and to this day still look far, far more fresh than the VT, VTII or VX.

XAJKX · 01-08-2009, 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uranium_death

I do not think the AU was a mistake.
The AUII and III were quite reliable and solid.
I just came back from a tennis committee meeting. I drive a VTII, while a fellow member, 'Ian' drives an AU. I think the AU looks far, far better and fresher than the VT, and far more sleek. The VTII looks comparatively tired.

When I asked him 'how is he AU' a long time ago, he replied, 'it's the best car I've ever had. Never broken down, and drives beautifully'.

The initial styling was questionable, but I think the AUII and III looked fantastic, and to this day still look far, far more fresh than the VT, VTII or VX.

OK OK, so 10 years later after the release of the car people think the AU looks OK , perhaps "Fresher" or more reliable than the VT Commodore, I happen to agree, but the public walked away from Ford in droves, NO-ONE Wanted an AU (except Ute)

Is anyone old enough to remember their first impressions of seeing the VT and AU?

I am, It was Pride that Australia could build a car world class car like the VT and disgust / horror / shock / disbelief that ford had released "That thing" as a "Falcon".

At the time 99% of people thought the same, look at the sales figures (VFACTS) from back then. The EF / EL had MASSIVE Sales by comparison.

The car nearly sank Ford Australia - the "Fresh" design of AU Was a HUGE Mistake at the time.

Ask any dealer about the pain they went through with AU, the Commodore sold 2 to 1 or perhaps 3 to 1 AU Falcon.

It was however perhaps a timely "Wake-up" to FMC to LISTEN to what people want.

Then bring on Geoff Polites (An ex Ford Dealer and in touch with the public) and things like Turbos, 5.4 Litre BOSS v8s and money for Motorsport etc.

God bless Geoff.

No sales = No Ford - AU was a MISTAKE a HUGE Mistake.

Wally · 01-08-2009, 09:21 AM

I don't know if 99% of people thought badly of the AU, but I do know a few of my Ford stalwart mates got into Holdens when their leases were up, rather than migrate to the new shape.

Mr X · 01-08-2009, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wally

I don't know if 99% of people thought badly of the AU, but I do know a few of my Ford stalwart mates got into Holdens when their leases were up, rather than migrate to the new shape.

The poor old AU.They seem to look better to me as they get older though.Tough as old nails too.We had a cab at work -AU2 which did 780,00 km on the original short motor.In its life it had one new head,one new trans,some ball joints,tie rod ends periodically and of course brakes.Not bad hey.

The owners son now uses it as a daily driver.

uranium_death · 30-07-2009, 11:59 PM

repost (delete please)

KW XRT · 01-08-2009, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XAJKX

20 years of Ford Australia Management Mistakes doesn't help.

Dropping the V8 engine in the 80s
.

We get that alot how ford ended the V8 and Holdeb didb't but the truth is Holden canned the V8 also the only difference between ford and holden was Street Machine campain that went along the lines of V8 till 98.Probably showing my age a bit but the holden V8 was gone for all money.Just marginally better timing that's all as Street Machine got a chance to save it as the ford V8 was already gone.

More on the holden thing not that I drove them much but I always hated how holdens drove they were so bad compared to anything but there owners always thought they were awesome.More so the HQ'S on, then SM did a story RE: the front end geometry of the HQ holden and why it was as bad as it was a few years ago.They expalained why it understeered so bad and how holden held australia to ransome with antiquated tyres and stuff.Then and explained the BULL S HIT radial tuned suspension and I final had confirmed how I felt all along that they were pieces of sh it.Not only that they were designed like that.
I have alwys maintained that holden has saved so much money selling the crap they did that they put that money into racing rightly or wrongly.

XR8putts · 30-07-2009, 10:10 PM

It all goes in circles.

Ford is doing better than Holden financially; Holden can't afford a VF so will deliver a cheap VE2 update soon, which will be outdated as soon as it comes out, the money will dry up and the new GM will demand actions - they will cut V8SC spending and 888 will go mental when they lose their promised millions. You do know Holden havn't turned a proffit in years. Holden have lost market share and exports, Ford have gained market share and are looking very good. Holden will soon announce the cancellation of the new model line they announced only to take the shine of the noww canned Ford Focus line in Aus.

I look forward to resurecting this thread in a few years when Holden are in the crap and all the media-spin and advertising in the world can't save them.

DOC · 30-07-2009, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP-03

Im 37 years old, Why do Holden outshine Ford nearly everytime? Somebody please tell me!!!

?? at 37 you should be old enough to know you cant polish sheite

GTP-03 · 30-07-2009, 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

?? at 37 you should be old enough to know you cant polish sheite

your car looks pretty shiny on the avatar though? hehe

YOOT · 31-07-2009, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DOC

?? at 37 you should be old enough to know you cant polish sheite

No you can't polish a ttuurd, but you can roll it in glitter...

4Vman · 30-07-2009, 10:23 PM

Simple: a man named P.BROCK.. and the domination of the A9X/Early commodores in Group C... The blind holden faithfull are devout Holden/Brock fans or spin-offs....

Motorsport was relevant to young men in the 70's and 80's, it no longer is...

Windsor220 · 30-07-2009, 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Simple: a man named P.BROCK.. and the domination of the A9X/Early commodores in Group C... The blind holden faithfull are devout Holden/Brock fans or spin-offs....

Motorsport was relevant to young men in the 70's and 80's, it no longer is...

This doesnt explain the gen-y love affair with Holden. A lot of the younger guys probably dont even know who Brock was.

4Vman · 30-07-2009, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

This doesnt explain the gen-y love affair with Holden. A lot of the younger guys probably dont even know who Brock was.

I dont believe that for a second.... Its hereditary....

schnoods · 30-07-2009, 11:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I dont believe that for a second.... Its hereditary....

hehe its so true.

Had mates that bought Camiras and Geminis purely on the basis of the Badge.

Then you see their old man and they're like "whats this ford doing on my driveway", when there is a $300 gemini in front of it...

Brainwashing starts young and for no apparent reason...

Powdered Toast Man · 31-07-2009, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

I dont believe that for a second.... Its hereditary....

Exactly what I think.

It's actually the true reason that I'm a Ford fan. It was hereditary, my dad is a Ford man. It's not that he hates Holdens or other makes he just always had a Falcon when I was growing up. That was passed onto me and one of my older brothers who is a devout Ford nut (the only other cars he likes are the Italian and European supercars since he works on them all day).

Odly enough one of my other brothers favours Holdens because of the marketing hype and supposed reputation they have. He for some reason thinks Fords are unreliable bits of rusty crap and Holdens are like swiss watches when it's normally the other way around. When I mentioned some of the interior rattles I have in my BA he says thats because it's a Ford and that I should have bought a VE since they are built so great lol. I should mention he doesn't actually own a car and hasn't for many years. He's a temporary Australian (ie bike rider).

My Mum works for Holden and there is no way she will ever buy one! She's not a Ford fan though just anti Holden. But it's not the cars she hates so that's probably another story......

GT69 · 30-07-2009, 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

This doesnt explain the gen-y love affair with Holden. A lot of the younger guys probably dont even know who Brock was.

This could explain it

THE New South Wales Government has unilaterally declared the whole of Generation Y a "disadvantaged group" in an attempt to meet its own jobs targets.

The declaration, in a government circular headed "Designation of Youth as a disadvantage group", means that heads of public service departments can show favouritism towards job applicants aged under 25.

It is designed to help NSW Premier Nathan Rees fulfil a promise he made earlier this year to create 4000 new government apprenticeships and 2000 cadetships.

However, the boost in employment for the under-25s would appear to be largely cosmetic, since it will come at the expense of older workers.

"Youth, being defined as persons under the age of 25, has been designated as a disadvantaged group," the official circular begins.

"The inclusion of youth as a disadvantaged group is one of a number of strategies designed to increase their representation in the NSW public sector.

"In addition to this designation, the authority to recommend the appointment of persons belonging to the disadvantage group - youth - has been delegated to department heads to streamline the process of appointment."

News that it is a downtrodden minority will come as a surprise to Generation Y.

Among the advantages enjoyed since early childhood by members of Generation Y - usually defined as those born since 1985 - are the unstinting adoration of their baby boomer parents, an avalanche of prizes and trophies (for participation, rather than actually winning) and new technologies such as the internet and mobile phones.

"I'm slightly offended, to be honest," was the reaction of aspiring Sydney lawyer Jessica Krull, 24, to her newfound status as disadvantaged.

"There's enough jobs out there that people my age can go and get, if they're willing to go and look for work. People who find that they can't find employment might need to acquire more skills, or they're just not looking hard enough."

source - http://www.news.com.au/business/stor...37-462,00.html

onfire · 30-07-2009, 11:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Windsor220

This doesnt explain the gen-y love affair with Holden. A lot of the younger guys probably dont even know who Brock was.

Being Gen-Y.. looking for my first car in 2001, Commodores always seemed cheaper, but not only that, just coming from an average working class area the most we could afford as 18 year old kids were cars 10-20 years old. The Commodore's from 1980s were smaller compared to say, an XE/F, still able to carry 5 adults, rear wheel drive and 6/8 cylinder.

The natural progression would be updating to a Commodore from the mid-90s, and so on.

I think things will change now with laws put in place to stop P-Platers modifying V6s. I dare say a stock AU straight 6 falcon, would out gun a stock VT V6.

snappy · 30-07-2009, 10:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Simple: a man named P.BROCK.. and the domination of the A9X/Early commodores in Group C... The blind holden faithfull are devout Holden/Brock fans or spin-offs....

Motorsport was relevant to young men in the 70's and 80's, it no longer is...

Your probly right there , before i even new what holden and ford were i remember being at my gran's wacthing what i assumed to be bathurst and i was going for peter brock 05 . Thats all i remember it wasn't till my step sister meet this fella that had a xa gt and he took me for a spin . An i have been ford this ford that ever since .

i allthough it really bugs me that everything holden does allways gets praise an ford can do the exact same thing and get hung for it. Hell the very last survey i read was that holden owners were the least happy with there vehicle purchases but hey holdens go better.

One thing for ford though is these turbos of ours seem to have a bit of a cult like following . The street im working on at the moment there are 4 other houses being built just up the road and out of the 6 cars park out the front every morning of these building sites 3 are fg xr6t utes .

Mark s · 31-07-2009, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snappy84

One thing for ford though is these turbos of ours seem to have a bit of a cult like following . The street im working on at the moment there are 4 other houses being built just up the road and out of the 6 cars park out the front every morning of these building sites 3 are fg xr6t utes .

Mate I think your are spot on here. Look at the following the Turbo Jap cars have had with the younger folk. There was also a cult following with the VL turbo as well.

I think the XR6 Turbo is the car to lure many of the younger guys back to Ford.

Sorry to say but I really think this crap about winning on the race track, converts to car sales with rubbish nowdays. It was true back in the 60's and 70's and I guess early 80's when there was a much smaller range of cars out there. Today with the different brands on the road, the average family looks at economy, comfort, etc over a growling V8.

Really the majority of V8 owners are guys around my age group mid - late 30's and older, older V8 commodores tend to be the Bogan car. Seems to me the younger guys are into Jap cars with turbos and this is where I think the XR6T has become a winner.

Just look how easy they are to get power from.