Ford oil spec M2C913-D

[NZ XR6]

There's been a few threads on this, including ope126's excellent thread on Ecoboost oils. But the whole issue of the M2C913-x oil that Ford specify for our engines can not only be confusing for the owners, but also some Australian oil suppliers going by the oils that they recommend through the oil selectors on their websites.

Most of the following is based on the oilspecifications.com website, and also information provided by Lubrizol regarding ACEA oil specs. I've tried to keep it brief, but have failed badly! I've had to join the dots to some extent, so please let me know if I've got anything wrong.

M2C913-x (D is current) is Ford's oil specification for most of their European petrol and diesel engines. M2C913-A was published in the late 1990's, and has been updated about every 5 years. M2C913-C is specified for most MA - MC Mondeos, but was superseded by D during 2013. The upgraded specs are generally backwards compatible with the older, so if your handbook specifies M2C913-B or C, then you should use the latest M2C913-D oil.

So far, so good, and if you own a petrol Mondeo, there isn't really an issue other than finding a product in consumer packaging that meets the spec. The Ford factory fill and recommended oil is Castrol Magnatec Professional A5, but the smallest container is 20 l. There's much more info in the post by ope126 on Ecoboost oils. Be aware that just because the oil container states that it meets M2C913-D doesn't mean that it's actually been tested against the Ford spec, especially in the case of Australian oils. The oil company may have just bought an additive package from Lubrizol that is designed to produce a M2C913-D oil, so it might pay to check with the manufacturer whether it has been tested.

A little background here. ACEA oil specifications are developed in Europe by a group representing European carmakers. Usually, there will be an ACEA spec that aligns with a particular manufacturer’s OEM spec, e.g. C3 with Merc, VW, etc. The ACEA A/B oils are generally for gasoline and light diesel engines without DPFs. The C series also includes specifications to ensure that emission controls, particularly the DPF, aren't damaged by certain additives such as phosphorous. This is where the “low SAPS” marking that you will see on some oils comes from. (SAPS = sulphated ash, phosphorous and sulphur)

I don’t have a copy of M2C913-D, and I’m unsure how much it would all mean to me anyway. But it aligns with A5/B5-10, so it appears that it doesn’t include a SAPS limit. If it did, then you’d expect that it would align with one of the ACEA C specs. This is confirmed by the manufacturers’ specs, for example Castrol Magnatec A5 has 1.24% sulphated ash, which is much higher than the C2 and C3 limit of 0.8%.

Now this is where it becomes interesting. ACEA A5/B5 is a fuel economy oil, as are the C2 and C3 oils. However, in order to enable the oil manufacturers to meet the C specs, ACEA has relaxed some of the additive requirements. For example, A5/B5 oils must have a TBN greater then 8.0, whereas C3 specifies 6.0 and C2 doesn’t include a minimum. (TBN = Total Base Number, which is a measure of the total amount of certain anti-wear additives.) However, the maximum wear requirements are almost the same between A5/B5, and C2 and C3.

One final thing to note about M2C913-D is that it is required for a small subset of Ford diesel engines, specifically the 2.2 l engines fitted to some Transits. Also, the Motul data sheet for their 913-D oil states:

The “913 D” specification requires also an extra high oil film resistance for the lubricant to guarantee the viscosity capability over the whole oil drain interval. This characteristic is even more important in the current sustainability context and use of bio fuels such as biodiesel.

Make of this what you will. It may be that the Ford spec oil is intended to provide an additional degree of engine protection over C2 / C3 oils by not including a SAPS limit. This is why some oils that are recommended for Ford diesel engines also state that they should not be used where DPF’s are fitted! However, Ford specify the same oil for most of their Euro products, so maybe they just wanted to have a single oil that could be used in almost all of their engines, and feel that the DPF won’t be too affected by the higher SAPS levels.

Peugeot recommend C2 oils for their version of the Mondeo diesel engine, but also have an OEM spec that is met only by a Total oil. (I wouldn’t like to speculate why this is, except to say that both are French companies!) But having looked at the ACEA oil specs, I may just buy the best value C3 oil that I can find when Repco or Supercheap next have a 25% off sale.

[rondeo]

Thanks NZ XR6! A good read! I have been in touch with two Australian oil companies about this seeming paradox, and have been told twice to shut up and eat my weeties.

I'm awaiting a return call from Fuchs who I hope will answer the question "what is it about TITAN Supersyn F eco - DT SAE 5W-30 that makes it, as your website claims,
"especially suitable for Ford DuraTorq-Diesel engines" ? The Peugot diesel is apparently happy with a different oil (C2), according to Fuchs.

Valvoline oils at Supercheap are also labelled "suits Mondeo".

In my limited uderstanding, that's the question, what's the real difference?
I will not eat my weeties.

[rondeo]

Fuchs person called and would not answer the question, saying it was 'intellectual property of Ford Australia'. I think it's a secret.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Fuchs person called and would not answer the question, saying it was 'intellectual property of Ford Australia'. I think it's a secret.

Rubbish, you can buy a copy of M2C913-D from Standards Australia!

Most of the European oil companies make oils specifically designed to meet OEM specs. That Fuchs oil is their M2C913-D oil, Motul also make one. The Fuchs oil has "approval" to the Ford spec, which I assume means that it's been tested to M2C913-D.

There are only 3 oils listed on the Opie Oils website (UK online store) that meet M2C913-D:

• the Fuchs oil
• Castrol Magnatec Professional A5
• Motul SPECIFIC 913D

I really wish we could get the Motul oil in this part of the world.

[rondeo]

Thanks NZ XR6. I can get Australian Standards. Will look into it. My suspicion atm is that there's a balance between fuel efficiency, wear charateristics and DPF longevity.
I was at the local Ford dealer the other day and the service rep said they use Castrol proffessional whatever it was but he advised against it!!!! Saying use DPF friendly oil instead. What a laugh. Another laugh was the latest Falcon parked next to an MD Mondeo. I think they call it weaning.

[olfella]

Originally Posted by rondeo

I was at the local Ford dealer the other day and the service rep said they use Castrol proffessional whatever it was but he advised against it!!!! Saying use DPF friendly oil instead. What a laugh. Another laugh was the latest Falcon parked next to an MD Mondeo. I think they call it weaning.

And that raises another question of what are they (dealers) putting in my car?

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by olfella

And that raises another question of what are they (dealers) putting in my car?

A good question to ask them when you take the car in for servicing. At the first service on the BA XR6, they used a Caltex 15W-40 when the filler cap said 10W-30! I did the oil changes myself after that.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by olfella

And that raises another question of what are they (dealers) putting in my car?

Can't answer that exactly, but from personal experience one of my Modeos was given a Ford service which reported the wrong oil had been used. The service manager said they would change it to the correct oil as a gesture of good will. I declined and changed it myself.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by rondeo

Thanks NZ XR6. I can get Australian Standards. Will look into it. My suspicion atm is that there's a balance between fuel efficiency, wear charateristics and DPF longevity.

Exactly. it looks to me that Ford has compromised on emissions, Peugeot on wear protection (sort of), and VW, Merc, etc. on fuel efficiency.

[LordFordNZ]

Using oil thread here, as its oil related...have just changed the oil on my MC TDCi, took it for a drive, and its going black already..yes, did change the filter too...question is, as this is my first diesel car, does oil go blacker quicker than in a petrol engine?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by LordFordNZ

Using oil thread here, as its oil related...have just changed the oil on my MC TDCi, took it for a drive, and its going black already..yes, did change the filter too...question is, as this is my first diesel car, does oil go blacker quicker than in a petrol engine?

Spot on.

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by LordFordNZ

question is, as this is my first diesel car, does oil go blacker quicker than in a petrol engine?

yes it'll go black in a short time, nearly instantly. This is normal and shouldn't worry you. That's the beauty about diesel oils and soot, they have good detergents, antifoam and suspending/holding properties so when you do change the oil the crap is drained with it. (not forgetting long life 15K service life)

[Paulg05]

While we are on the topic of Oils, can somebody please tell me the Motocraft Part Number for a MD 2.0 Diesel ? I believe it's different from previous models.

Thanks

[GTLEGEND]

Originally Posted by Paulg05

While we are on the topic of Oils, can somebody please tell me the Motocraft Part Number for a MD 2.0 Diesel ? I believe it's different from previous models.

Thanks

Yes correct MD diesel oil is different to MC diesel.

Motorcraft part number for this oil to suit MD Diesel is WSSM2C950A20L.

The correct specification for MD Mondeo Diesel is WSS-M2C950-A

[ope126]

Originally Posted by GTLEGEND

Yes correct MD diesel oil is different to MC diesel.

Motorcraft part number for this oil to suit MD Diesel is WSSM2C950A20L.

The correct specification for MD Mondeo Diesel is WSS-M2C950-A

Yes the MD uses WSS-M2C950-A for Diesel; http://www.fordpartsuk.com/shop/ford...210_c_1044.htm

It is a 0W/30 oil.

[bundybear75]

Oils aint oils......

I'm almost due to do an intermediate service on my MC TDCi wagon and have hit this quandary of oils. Up till now I've always used Penrite oils in my diesels (usually HPR Diesel 5) and my chosen mechanic uses only Penrite oils as well.

The Penrite lube selector points me to HPR D5 but also says its not suitable for DPF's. That would then suggest the ENVIRO+ oil at much $$$ and no M2C913-D rating.

I'm considering Nulon 5W-30 http://www.nulon.com.au/images/files...B-SYND5W30.pdf as it seems to tick all the boxes and is readily available (and on sale this weekend at Supercheap). Doesnt have M2C913-D rating though...

As I plan to do an oil and filter change every 7,500km (or about every 2 months), does anyone think this will be an issue?

The wagon is a 2012 approaching 142,500km so not in any warranty period.


By the way, the Nulon recommended oil (Full Synthetic 5W-30 Fuel Efficient Engine Oil) has the M2C913-D rating but a warning not to use with DPF's

[ope126]

Nulon and Penrite are both great products. Auto One in Brisbane are offering 30% off Nulon this weekend along with the Supercheap promo!
Ring both the tech lines, I am sure they will mention that the Mondeo has a "High Flow" DPF and although it is mentioned not to use in a DPF equipped vehicle, it will be safe as it is Ford Spec - WSS-M2913-D.
I have been using Penrite HPR5 in the past 3 MC Mondeos that I have owned - will continue to do so!

[rondeo]

The observant consumer finds contradictory statements on retail oil containers regarding the suitability of various diesel oils for their DPF equipped vehicle.
I have made inqiries with various oil companies about this issue to no avail.

I suspect Ford's main concern is to achieve long service intervals and to keep emissions/fuel consumption figures as advertised at the possible expense of slightly reduced DPF life.

DIY I have always used Nulon long life DPF suitable oil at 15000km interval. No oil seal leaks, no perceptible oil consumption, fuel efficiency has recently gone from 6.4 to 6.0 and 5.9.
That's over 100,000km per car.

In the absence of any credible information I'd suggest use only a Ford approved oil (even though the container states it's not suitable for DPFs!!!), or take your chances.

[cobrin]

Yeah I've skipped Penrite because convinced they had a suitable oil back when I was looking. I settled on Nulon's as you've listed. The label has changed a few times as has the spec sheet. All I need to remember, is as long as it's the yellow 30 and low saps then I'm good to go. That other 5W30 oil (blue 30) is ok for those wanting the lower 5W30 fuel saving oil for either fuel types. Nothing wrong with that, I'd use it in an old jalopy. I'd say they've made the wrong link to that product for the diesel drop down list, it's full synth. but not specifically for Diesel DPFs as you've noticed nor in the Diesel section.

this is the old label (and there were others before that)



and new



I've used that oil from the first change with the car 120K to what it currently is 175K. M2C913-D has been superseded but simply making sure it's suitable for DPF's in the correct grade is acceptable. You'll see my review on stupidcheap if you look. lol

[ope126]

Ford oil spec M2C913-D search on the Nulon website; http://www.nulon.com.au/products/by-...ils/?specs=348#

Nothing else on the Nulon site meets the spec of M2C913-D, doesn't meant you cant use something else though! Just means it does not meet the spec as given by Ford...

Another link to Ford Oil Specs; http://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php

Not sure that 913-D has been superseded yet though?

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by ope126

Ford oil spec M2C913-D search on the Nulon website; http://www.nulon.com.au/products/by-...ils/?specs=348#

Nothing else on the Nulon site meets the spec of M2C913-D, doesn't meant you cant use something else though! Just means it does not meet the spec as given by Ford...

Another link to Ford Oil Specs; http://www.oilspecifications.org/ford.php

Not sure that 913-D has been superseded yet though?

My concern is the one Nulon oil listed that meets the Ford spec has a caution against use with DPF's. I'm leaning towards the oil that Cobrin has pictured, (1) because it is available in 10L from supercheap locally, and (2) it is on sale at the moment. I will use a fair amount of this in the next couple of years so availability and price is important

[rondeo]

My understanding so far is the following:

Fuel efficient oils form thinner lower viscosity films. Lower viscosity means less energy is required to turn the lubricated parts. ACEA C3 oils such as the Nulon long life diesel form thicker more viscous films, so use more energy.

With thinner lower viscosity films there is potentially greater wear. Additives wich work best to prevent such wear produce more ash, and are said to be unsuitable for DPFs.

There are many other qualities such as seal compatibility, detergent properties, soot suspension ability, acid neutralising power etc etc, but the core issue might be as I have outlined above.

Personally I'm just interested in the 'facts', not too bothered about using the 'wrong' oil.

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Oils aint oils......

I'm almost due to do an intermediate service on my MC TDCi wagon and have hit this quandary of oils. Up till now I've always used Penrite oils in my diesels (usually HPR Diesel 5) and my chosen mechanic uses only Penrite oils as well.

The Penrite lube selector points me to HPR D5 but also says its not suitable for DPF's. That would then suggest the ENVIRO+ oil at much $$$ and no M2C913-D rating.

I'm considering Nulon 5W-30 http://www.nulon.com.au/images/files...B-SYND5W30.pdf as it seems to tick all the boxes and is readily available (and on sale this weekend at Supercheap). Doesnt have M2C913-D rating though...

As I plan to do an oil and filter change every 7,500km (or about every 2 months), does anyone think this will be an issue?

The wagon is a 2012 approaching 142,500km so not in any warranty period.


By the way, the Nulon recommended oil (Full Synthetic 5W-30 Fuel Efficient Engine Oil) has the M2C913-D rating but a warning not to use with DPF's

Welcome to the wacky world of oils for Mondeo diesels. Firstly, I'd suggest saving your money and sticking with 15,000 km oil change intervals. You're obviously doing a high mileage, so there is no reason to change it more frequently. The service interval in Europe is 20,000 km - Ford AU decided in their wisdom to make it the same as the Falcon.

As the Mondeo diesel has a Peugeot engine, I follow their recommendation and use a Total oil - Quartz Ineo ECS, which meets Peugeot requirements. It's a mid-SAPS oil meeting ACEA C2.

The Nulon oil is a C3 oil, which may provide better engine protection but will increase fuel consumption slightly compared to C2 or the Ford spec oil.

I doubt that it really matters which oil you use, but safest to use a C2 oil if you're concerned about DPF failure. Penrite make one, but I'm not sure about Nulon.

30% off Penrite at Repco in NZ this weekend.

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Welcome to the wacky world of oils for Mondeo diesels. Firstly, I'd suggest saving your money and sticking with 15,000 km oil change intervals. You're obviously doing a high mileage, so there is no reason to change it more frequently. The service interval in Europe is 20,000 km - Ford AU decided in their wisdom to make it the same as the Falcon.

As the Mondeo diesel has a Peugeot engine, I follow their recommendation and use a Total oil - Quartz Ineo ECS, which meets Peugeot requirements. It's a mid-SAPS oil meeting ACEA C2.

The Nulon oil is a C3 oil, which may provide better engine protection but will increase fuel consumption slightly compared to C2 or the Ford spec oil.

I doubt that it really matters which oil you use, but safest to use a C2 oil if you're concerned about DPF failure. Penrite make one, but I'm not sure about Nulon.

30% off Penrite at Repco in NZ this weekend.

Total Oils not readily available in Australia unless you're in Victoria (according to their distributor list) so they are off the list.

I'm going to start with the 7,500km service intervals until I know the car well. I've always done an intermediate service on all my cars, simply for piece of mind. $60 or so for oil and filter every couple of months and an hour of my time I think is worth it. I hope to do 400,000km or more in this car. ( I got 333,000km out of the old VP Commodore it replaces and then only retired it due to an electrical gremlin)

[NZ XR6]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Total Oils not readily available in Australia unless you're in Victoria (according to their distributor list) so they are off the list.

I'm going to start with the 7,500km service intervals until I know the car well. I've always done an intermediate service on all my cars, simply for piece of mind. $60 or so for oil and filter every couple of months and an hour of my time I think is worth it. I hope to do 400,000km or more in this car. ( I got 333,000km out of the old VP Commodore it replaces and then only retired it due to an electrical gremlin)

Seems strange that you can't buy Total oil - Elf and Total (same company) are readily available in NZ. I think another member here has used Total oil, but am unsure where he lives. I can buy it here for quite a reasonable price; about $60 for 5 litres. Then I buy a 1 litre pack every 2nd oil change to get the extra 0.5 l.

It appears that Penrite and Nulon don't make a C2 oil. Most of the Euro oil manufacturers would make a Peugeot oil, for example Fuchs make a C2 oil that is PSA approved.

Also, watch the quality of filter that you buy. I was sold a Fram that probably had half of the filter material compared to the previous Ford filter. When I looked at the box, it said suitable for conventional oils and change intervals of 8,000 km! I found a Ryco at the local SCA that looked much better, but it cost over $30!

[bundybear75]

Originally Posted by NZ XR6

Seems strange that you can't buy Total oil - Elf and Total (same company) are readily available in NZ. I think another member here has used Total oil, but am unsure where he lives. I can buy it here for quite a reasonable price; about $60 for 5 litres. Then I buy a 1 litre pack every 2nd oil change to get the extra 0.5 l.

It appears that Penrite and Nulon don't make a C2 oil. Most of the Euro oil manufacturers would make a Peugeot oil, for example Fuchs make a C2 oil that is PSA approved.

Also, watch the quality of filter that you buy. I was sold a Fram that probably had half of the filter material compared to the previous Ford filter. When I looked at the box, it said suitable for conventional oils and change intervals of 8,000 km! I found a Ryco at the local SCA that looked much better, but it cost over $30!

I plan on using these.

http://www.sydneyfilters.com.au/genu...-mini-peugeot/

I've been buying various filters from these guys for years with no issues.

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

I plan on using these.

http://www.sydneyfilters.com.au/genu...-mini-peugeot/

I've been buying various filters from these guys for years with no issues.

Interesting when I changed my filter for the first time it had a mann filter. I've always liked the quality of it over fords own. I might chase a few down. Thanks for the reminder.

[cobrin]

Geez I wish I could edit lol, M2C913-D is the latest I'm stuck on M2C913-C my bad I got it confused, and you're talking about the MD sorry bundy and others, disregard my comments.

[NZ XR6]

Mann make a lot of OE filters for Euro car manufacturers. That's a good price too.

[ope126]

I was using Total Oil when I had my EcoBoost and got it locally in Brisbane from Onshore Oils; http://www.onshoreoils.com.au/

For me the issue was (at the time) they could not source 1L bottles so could only get the 5L and needed more for the oil change. And I believe the EcoBoost needed 5.4L on a change and now my TDCi needs 5.5L on an oil change.

That is the only real reason I went with Penrite HPR5 which is readily available in a 6L bottle; http://www.penriteoil.com.au/product...&id_products=1