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The Pub For General Automotive Related Talk |
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14-10-2011, 09:13 AM | #1 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/v...011-1li2g.html
As much as people might not like it, they're pretty much right. With the power and economy of smaller engines (especially diesels) the days are probably numbered of big capacity big cylinder engines. Increasingly strong regulatory changes that are in the wind don't make it easy for Larger engines. There's also the fact that the old idea of "but...people need big engines in cars for towing caravans and horse floats!" Doesn't hold...if people are going to tow big stuff, they buy a four wheel drive, and even their engines are, mostly, getting smaller. Even the six cylinders are getting smaller in capacity now, and it would be foolish for car makers here to ignore reality and keep pouring hundreds of millions into developing and redeveloping huge V8's when the world is going the other direction...the Yanks got stung like that when the "huge SUV" craze died down sharply in the early 2000's, and the makers were stuck with dozens of acres of unsellable trucks while the public started demanding smaller more economical cars. It is hardly profitable to keep producing cars that are only bought by a vanishingly small minority of buyers...possibly you can raise tyhe prices of the rest of the range to subsidise the specialist models, but sooner or later reality bites. I'm very happy with the excellent 4.0 six cylinder h our G6E...I love the little 4.2 V8 in our old WB Ute...but I am also realistic enough to know that as uncomfortable as it may be, the days of engines like this are numbered... Last edited by 2011G6E; 14-10-2011 at 09:24 AM. |
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14-10-2011, 09:32 AM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
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Looking at the new range of 4 cylinder 4x4s
They make great power and torque But they usually are turboed and intercooled (Crank that boost baby) So you really have in effect perhaps unreliable power ??? The older larger engines,are reliable and do the job day in day out, without a fuss I have a 4.2 petrol GQ for towing, theres nothin it wont pull, yeah its thirsty ,but it does the job it was bought for Get me an old 4.2 diesel patrol motor run a big intercooler,heaps of boost like a new engine and then see why the larger engines are good for a reason I think in this day and age , cars getting 10L/100Ks or more just shouldnt happen |
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14-10-2011, 10:34 AM | #3 | ||
You dig, we stick!
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Nothing new; everyone's downsizing and to good effect.
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14-10-2011, 10:42 AM | #4 | ||
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Big 6 and 8 cylinder engines will always be around as long as there is a market for them, however small. I don't think Mercedes or any of the premium marques will be abandoning their V8s, V10s and V12s any time soon. That being said I think as the baby boomers and Generation X get older and die off, V8s will die with them.
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14-10-2011, 06:25 PM | #5 | |||
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Smaller sedans with smaller engines are a reflection of the times, case in point the Commodore downsize in the late 1970s and early 80s. The popular range of Mitsubishi and Nissan sedans and wagons of the same period. And of course, the rise of Japanese hatches and coupes to going along with it. It's history repeating itself. |
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14-10-2011, 06:30 PM | #6 | |||
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14-10-2011, 11:42 PM | #7 | |||
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Quote:
History ebbs and flows in cycles. Last edited by JG34JA; 14-10-2011 at 11:48 PM. |
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15-10-2011, 04:15 AM | #8 | ||
Boss for Go, L98 for Show
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Fact of the matter is this, small engines are getting cleverer and yes compared to bigger capacity engines of yester they are more powerful, more torquey more fuel efficient.
Put the same technology in a bigger cc engine and you will see the bigger engine will make more power, more torque and less stressed than a smaller engine. Its physics....
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14-10-2011, 10:58 AM | #9 | ||
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some of us do buy cars to tow with, i have no need to ride around in a truck like ute all year, and could`nt afford to run both anyway, but it would`nt surprise me if the time comes when it will become too much of a luxury to own a large vehicle of any sort for the average joe, hopefully that is some time off yet.
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14-10-2011, 12:13 PM | #10 | ||
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There is absolutely not a single argument against a smaller turbo charged engine, the benefits are just too big for manufacturers to pass:
• Much better fuel consumption and lower emissions, • Much better power curves, say 2000rpm – 5000rpm flat torque curve, • Much easier to deliver high peak power numbers, • Much smaller and more compact size, • Lighter smaller engines, • Easier to fit into a smaller engine bay, hence leavening more space for leg room, • Small turbo setup is actually cheaper these days than a larger N/A displacement … Back in the 90s turbocharged engines had a few drawbacks which made them not a viable options in a number of scenarios, however with the huge development of numerous engine and turbo technologies these drawbacks have been completely eliminated and now the advantages of turbo charging can be fully exploited to their max … |
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14-10-2011, 06:07 PM | #11 | |||
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re: fuel economy, a turbo driven hard with similar power levels to a similar output larger N/A engine can also drink like a sailor on leave, off boost yes it has an advantage. |
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14-10-2011, 06:23 PM | #12 | ||
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I'm with you on that one MIK and that applies to supercharged engine also.
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14-10-2011, 07:44 PM | #13 | |||
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He is running 15 PSI and returns 12L/100Ks Compared to the new breed it seems a tad on the dear side,but its over 20 odd years old , has quite a few Ks under its belt Although technology is great, i wouldnt put faith in the new breed to last 20 years , let alone handle 15 PSI As for the economy on boost, Years ago dad had 2 toys , an ET pulsar turbo (new) and an FC LTD 351 Both when the pedal was pushed drank like a fish I cant remember exactly what was faster at the time A four whistling its lungs out or a 351 4 barrell wide open I do remember 1 thing The four never pushed ya in the seat like the 8 |
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14-10-2011, 12:28 PM | #14 | ||
Flairs - Truckers Delight
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This will not happen anytime soon. Volvo is correct that turbo petrol 4's are excellent, but we all know what the public's acceptance of things like that is like, especially with draconian laws like P platers can't drive turbos. What's wrong with a ~20 year old girl with a couple of years driving experience driving her mum's Cruze 1.4L ITI?
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14-10-2011, 12:34 PM | #15 | |||
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14-10-2011, 12:38 PM | #16 | |||
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14-10-2011, 09:28 PM | #17 | |||
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15-10-2011, 08:44 AM | #18 | ||
Back in black
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The big engined car days are not numbered they are just getting pushed into a more exclusive market. Those that want to buy one still will. Exclusivity comes at a larger price tag but that's why Mercs and other luxury brands make big engined cars still because there's still a market for those who want to pay. The XR8 is gone but the FPV GS has replaced it. All good if you have the passion to pay for one. I'll always have at least one V8 in the garage.
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15-10-2011, 09:13 AM | #19 | ||
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I disagree to a point, people today are not as interested in buying a performance engine as an option,
they instead want a basic engine to encompass both good performance and good fuel economy. The way most manufacturers are approaching this is by offering LPG, diesel, hybrid or DI turbo petrol engines, The key is increased efficiency and no better example exists than SZ Territory where 80% of I-6 sales have now been displaced by the new V6 diesel, could you imagine the impact of a combined V6 diesel and Ecoboost 2.0 on I-6 Falcon sales? Ford would most likely close down the I-6 engine plant, so not a good idea at the moment...... |
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14-10-2011, 12:49 PM | #20 | ||
The 'Stihl' Man
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: TAS
Posts: 27,586
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Obviously we have come a fair way since the 80's when it comes to downsizing and forced induction. The only thing that gets me is the maintenance costs. I dont have nay evidence of for or against but are these cars going to cost us more to keep on the road?
XR6T's seem to be doing ok, I think most would be well on there way to 200,000k's by now perhaps? Doesnt seem to be anything drastically wrong that you wouldnt expect from any other car with the same kms. Thats my only gripe, other than that who cars how many cylinders, or what fuel it runs on. If it performs as well and costs the same if not less to run than its predecessor then bring it on. |
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14-10-2011, 01:02 PM | #21 | ||
Rob
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Woodcroft S.A.
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last time i checked, ford offer many 4cyl engines, some turbo, some diesel, some both.
thankfully they offer choice and those of us who still like larger cars with larger engines still have an option in the ford stable. for those who want a large car but don't want the stigma that is attached to larger engines, then from early next year, falcon will be offered with a 4cyl. this technology that makes smaller engines more powerful, can also be used on larger engines. its not unique to smaller engines. have a look at the economy and power of some of the 6cyl and v8 and even v10 engines around the globe. some have economy figures that wouldn't have been out of place on a 6cyl only 10yrs ago, whilst achieving probably well over double the power. big engines aren't done with yet. |
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14-10-2011, 02:48 PM | #22 | ||
Peter Car
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Hence why Ford are covering those bases with the Ecoboost Falcon, lower capacity with good power and torque and better economy.
But IMO Volvo switching to a sole 4 cylinder line up is just dumb. They have nothing to compete with big engined Audi's, BMW's, Mercedes, Lexus etc. Although they are all intorducing smaller engined entry models they are keeping bigger engined versions higher up the line up for people who want them, and people who are cashed up enough to buy big luxury cars couldn't care less if the cost more to run in terms of fuel use. They would think small engines are for the poor or tightarses. |
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14-10-2011, 03:03 PM | #23 | |||
The 'Stihl' Man
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If you wanted a big cube luxury car would you buy a Volvo? I wouldnt no matter the spec. Not because its bad but just because thats not the image/car I would want. If they focus on their strengths then they become "leaders" in that field. |
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14-10-2011, 03:36 PM | #24 | ||
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Exactly! Volvo is not trying to compete at the high end luxury and performance market segments with the likes of AMG or M Division. Volvo is actually a bit like Ford - they simply make an average man's car (i.e. shopping trolley) and for that a turbo 4 cylinder is more than enough ...
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14-10-2011, 06:28 PM | #25 | |||
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but has slipped down the ranks due to lack of exciting product. IMO, Volvo should have done more with I-5T, I-6T and 4.4V8. Their failure to press home a clear advantage with those engines is why they fell into disrepair under Ford and now Geely holding group |
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14-10-2011, 06:35 PM | #26 | ||
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Look at Jaguar XF, 2.2 TD, 3.0TD. V6 and 5.0 S/C.
If Ford were to emulate XF Jaguar in the next gen Falcon, I think they would capture much more market share, having the whole gamut of engines from 5.5 l/100 km economy through to 500 hp V8 is an astonishing feat, nearly all of those types of engines are potentially available to FoA. The more I think about Flappist's idea regarding increasing the quality of Falcon, the more I see Jaguar products like XF and XJ, maybe even an XK ... all for Lincoln? |
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14-10-2011, 04:00 PM | #27 | |||
Peter Car
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They are direct competitors, moreso than MB, BMW, Audi, Lexus etc. |
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14-10-2011, 07:47 PM | #28 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
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14-10-2011, 02:53 PM | #29 | ||
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Theres one exception i know of- toyota landcruisers. No longer available as a 6cyl its either single or twin turbo v8 woohooo
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14-10-2011, 04:04 PM | #30 | ||
The 'Stihl' Man
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But if the turbo 4 gives comparative performance then what does it matter?
I think their biggest issue was not continuing to have a "hero" wagon. Everyone knows Volvo building good wagons and they have dropped the ball a bit on that. Just because you compete with the other euros doesnt mean you have to be in every segment, just like the falcon it can only demand so much investment. It also means they will save a HEAP of cash with multiple engines, which works in theory as long as you nail the one solution you choose. Its not as crazy as it sounds if they execute it correctly. |
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