MC Mondeo harsh shift

[dave0706]

Hi,

Just recently joined the forum after purchasing a 2012 Mondeo ecoboost with 82,000 on the odo and a full service history with ford, up until the Honda dealer that sold it to me ‘stamped the book’. I spoke with the Ford dealer who completed all the services and they confirmed the transmission was serviced at 60,000k

I have never driven a dual clutch type auto before, and so one thing that concerned me is that the change from 1st to 2nd seems a bit harsh. It feels like the clutch has been let out perhaps a little too suddenly, and so the car lurches slightly on that change.

It seems to happen even when I’m driving very conservatively, and only accelerating very gently, but it can be minimised by easing off the gas just as it tries to change from 1st to 2nd.

All the other gear changes seem fine. And I haven’t noticed any fluctuating RPM’s like some other owners have reported (though there are not many inclines in Perth)

I absolutely love the car, but I’m concerned it will cost me $10k to replace the transmission down the track if it all goes wrong.

I could be being completely paranoid, but it’s hard to know what’s normal. I didn’t pick it up on test drive, and (stupidly?) only test drove this one Mondeo.

I’ve only had the car 3 weeks, and apart from the niggling worry i have about that shift from 1st to 2nd, I absolutely adore the car. It’s easily the best car I have ever owned.

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

Dave

[383hq]

They are harsher than a slush box auto.
Think of it as a manual with a robot gear changer

I found driving gently resulted in a more noticeable gear change (particularly 1-2 or into R) .
Better to get up it and into third quickly. I had the tdci, not the ecoboost.

Sold it at 194,000 kms with no trans issues, and I used the gearbox to slow down more than the brakes (120K on same brake pads).

Windscreen wiper blades are a bit dear, and servicing costs can get up there in dollars,

But Overall a Great car.

If you are concerned, go test drive another for comparison before your stat warranty runs out

[Mondaveo]

I have to say that gear changes in my MC since it's been fixed are generally seamless in all gears. Mine also is the TDCi, so it's possible the characteristics are different with the Ecoboost. The gearbox is supposed to be continuously self-calibrating to make smooth shifts (to account for clutch wear etc), which might be part of the reason it's said that driving style can influence how it behaves. (If you get up it, it 'learns' to be more decisive, for example.)

When the sensor was going bad on mine I did get intermittent indecision in the first two gears, which included harsh shifting as well as hesitation and balking (felt like it was momentarily grabbing neutral in the middle of acceleration). It was generally okay in higher gears (I suppose the higher road speed made less discrepancy in the sensor readings).

If you're concerned, I would recommend you get an OBDII scanner and spend some time monitoring the car so you can hopefully pin it down before your statutory warranty runs out. (I used and recommend the Scantool OBDLink MX.) It turned out my car was throwing an error code for the sensor trouble, but it frequently cleared the code after the engine was turned off (so at first the dealer could identify nothing wrong). Your dealer won't agree to any warranty work without proof an issue exists, which it seems for most dealer technicians means only looking at a diagnostic code from the car itself anyway...

[dave0706]

That’s great advice. Thanks Mondaveo.

[rondeo]

I don't notice gear changes on mine unless I'm listening.

At roundabouts where brief acceleration is followed by 40km/h
I find it necessary to release the accelerator pedal before the second gear change.

In a manual transmission I wouldn't hold the pedal down between 1st and second.

Maybe the computer doesn't think I would either?

[ac17]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

I have to say that gear changes in my MC since it's been fixed are generally seamless in all gears. Mine also is the TDCi, so it's possible the characteristics are different with the Ecoboost. The gearbox is supposed to be continuously self-calibrating to make smooth shifts (to account for clutch wear etc), which might be part of the reason it's said that driving style can influence how it behaves. (If you get up it, it 'learns' to be more decisive, for example.)

When the sensor was going bad on mine I did get intermittent indecision in the first two gears, which included harsh shifting as well as hesitation and balking (felt like it was momentarily grabbing neutral in the middle of acceleration). It was generally okay in higher gears (I suppose the higher road speed made less discrepancy in the sensor readings).

If you're concerned, I would recommend you get an OBDII scanner and spend some time monitoring the car so you can hopefully pin it down before your statutory warranty runs out. (I used and recommend the Scantool OBDLink MX.) It turned out my car was throwing an error code for the sensor trouble, but it frequently cleared the code after the engine was turned off (so at first the dealer could identify nothing wrong). Your dealer won't agree to any warranty work without proof an issue exists, which it seems for most dealer technicians means only looking at a diagnostic code from the car itself anyway...

What sensor are you talking about ?
My MC Mondeo is shuddering in 1st gear on slow take off or slow reversing and some of the earlier gear shifts are a bit jerky - I thought it was my clutch?

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by ac17

What sensor are you talking about ?
My MC Mondeo is shuddering in 1st gear on slow take off or slow reversing and some of the earlier gear shifts are a bit jerky - I thought it was my clutch?

Gearbox Input Shaft Speed sensor, GISS. Actually an engine speed sensor on the clutch drum housing, reading the RPM before the clutches (as we on the forum understand).

https://fordforums.com.au/showthread...47#post5688747

That's my thread where I data-logged my way to confirming a defective sensor. It causes balking/jerking and loss of drive because the computer can't work out what gear it should be in. There was no shuddering in my case, so hard to say if it's indicated by the symptoms you're describing.

[rxj]

Originally Posted by Mondaveo

I have to say that gear changes in my MC since it's been fixed are generally seamless in all gears. Mine also is the TDCi, so it's possible the characteristics are different with the Ecoboost. The gearbox is supposed to be continuously self-calibrating to make smooth shifts (to account for clutch wear etc), which might be part of the reason it's said that driving style can influence how it behaves. (If you get up it, it 'learns' to be more decisive, for example.)

When the sensor was going bad on mine I did get intermittent indecision in the first two gears, which included harsh shifting as well as hesitation and balking (felt like it was momentarily grabbing neutral in the middle of acceleration). It was generally okay in higher gears (I suppose the higher road speed made less discrepancy in the sensor readings).

If you're concerned, I would recommend you get an OBDII scanner and spend some time monitoring the car so you can hopefully pin it down before your statutory warranty runs out. (I used and recommend the Scantool OBDLink MX.) It turned out my car was throwing an error code for the sensor trouble, but it frequently cleared the code after the engine was turned off (so at first the dealer could identify nothing wrong). Your dealer won't agree to any warranty work without proof an issue exists, which it seems for most dealer technicians means only looking at a diagnostic code from the car itself anyway...

I have the exact same symptoms with my Ecoboost, maybe the sensor is on the way out as well. Trading in the car shortly so I’m not going to worry about investigating the issue further.

[rob270]

Hi guys

We've also joined the Mondeo family and picked up an MC Titanium wagon over Xmas for a steal and are super stoked with it so far.

As I'm not super familiar with the Powershift trans, I notice a couple of quirks of the trans that maybe normal but am open to opinion / thoughts.

Firstly when starting the car and leaving my foot on the brake, it goes into gear with a bit of a thump. Not a loud noise but certainly a noticeable shift shock.

Secondly, with all the millions of roundabouts here in Canberra, if I dawdle through and feather the throttle it seems to be a bit slow to make a shift then powers on through just fine.

Would these be considered normal traits ? Otherwise it drives like a dream, I had the dealer do a trans oil and filter change before we collected it so we're good there.

Cheers and thanks in advance.

[rondeo]

"Firstly when starting the car and leaving my foot on the brake, it goes into gear with a bit of a thump."

In park with foot on brake clutches should not engage.

Same applies in drive or reverse at 0km/h and brake pedal pressed,
ie clutches disengage.

Not sure how PARK works but assume transmission is locked somehow?

As usual with Ford not much technical information available.

[Mondaveo]

Originally Posted by rob270

Firstly when starting the car and leaving my foot on the brake, it goes into gear with a bit of a thump. Not a loud noise but certainly a noticeable shift shock.

I don't experience shift shock in my car going from Park to Drive with foot on brake unless I'm also on the accelerator, but I take it you're not doing that?

Originally Posted by rob270

Secondly, with all the millions of roundabouts here in Canberra, if I dawdle through and feather the throttle it seems to be a bit slow to make a shift then powers on through just fine.

Yep, mine is always sluggish and frequently feels like there's briefly no power/drive when I want it to slip through roundabouts or grab a gap at intersections. To my mind it seems to be a combination of things:

1. Delay in the turbo spooling back up after letting off the gas;
2. Delay in getting into gear - even though the DCT makes shifts quickly, the computer seems to take a moment to actually enact it (I notice this when driving in manual mode);
3. cobrin talks about a torque-limiting protection feature of the drivetrain, I suppose that could be a factor too.

I've now taken to switching to manual mode for busy roundabouts as suggested on this forum, it seems to make a big difference if I lock in 2nd gear on approach, as opposed to waiting for the computers to react in auto mode.

[cobrin]

Originally Posted by rob270

Hi guys


Firstly when starting the car and leaving my foot on the brake, it goes into gear with a bit of a thump. Not a loud noise but certainly a noticeable shift shock.


Would these be considered normal traits ?

Cheers and thanks in advance.

When parking the vehicle put it in neutral first then use the handbrake, then in one motion shift into park making sure you're not pausing in any other position on the way.

I think (anecdotally) what is currently happening, because you're in gear and foot on the brake there's some load on the trans when you put it in P, then pulling the handbrake keeps that tension/load. Then you go to leave the next time and shifting from park to R you're unloading it and it feels like a harsh shudder/shunt.

give it a try and see what the result is.

Another point to remember is weight on the parking pawl. This is similar to above but in a different area in the trans. If when you put it in P and the vehicle rolls back or forward against the parking pawl (which essentially holds it on the incline/decline) that will create a lot of load on it and when shifting out of P it shudders/shunts.

Change of behaviour will prevent it:
hold the vehicle by the brake pedal and shift into N
apply the handbrake so it holds the vehicle and won't roll
release the brake pedal
then shift into P

This will ensure there's no load on the trans at all and the brakes are holding the vehicle, so when you next go to shift it's all butter and cream smooth.

[rob270]

Thanks guys, I thought as much about the delayed throttle response, has been quite a while since driving diesels daily so that's just something to get used to.

As for the thump on start up it feels like its engaging drive but when I move the lever into D its perfectly fine. Maybe I'm overthinking it !!

Hopefully the OBD II dongle I ordered arrives this week so it would be good to see if there are any issues while it's still in statutory warranty. Fingers crossed we're all good !

[bundybear75]

Somebody step in here if I'm wrong but doesn't disconnecting the battery for a period reset the transmission computer? I found that mine was a different car to drive after having the battery disconnected. It started again and re-learned how I drive. Nice smooth changes for a while at least.

The major issues with the transmission that myself and others like Mondaveo had were very noticeable, and included issues such as neutralising between gear changes and logging of permanent DTC's. Mine even stopped completely (but reset after an engine restart and continued to drive). That being said, after the speed sensor replacement I have been very happy with mine and wouldn't hesitate to buy another in the future.

[rondeo]

Originally Posted by bundybear75

Somebody step in here if I'm wrong but doesn't disconnecting the battery for a period reset the transmission computer? I found that mine was a different car to drive after having the battery disconnected. It started again and re-learned how I drive. Nice smooth changes for a while at least.

I suppose the transmission learned adaptive values are stored in flash memory (like a usb memory stick) so disconnecting the battery won't do it. Could be wrong.

It's a bit like owning a bicycle in the stone age, parts are expensive and no-one knows. But up there in the sky somewhere is an authorised agent.(got that off my chest)

As for learning driving habits I'm absolutely sure it's a myth. What the TCM learns is only to do with the mechanical working of the machine. Adjustments are made to compensate for clutch wear, hydraulic pressure etc etc.
So you can thrash it as much as you like, the TCM is not listening.

for the dry clutch Foci:

http://forscan.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1672