Vans!

[DFB FGXR6]

Guys, we need to buy a new work van at work.

First of all, geepers, Vans are expensive now!

Virtually the only brand who has stock is Renault, in particular the Traffic. Are these any good?

No, the Chinese stuff is off the table.

I can't convince them to look at a Transit because of past grievances.

We have a current model VW Crafter in the fleet and it's been very good, but any VW van is a 12+ month order proposition. We need one now!

And the HiAce just seems so antiquated to me.

Observation - why the local car companies didn't convert to making commercial vehicles rather than the fickle sedan market is beyond me. Virtually a constant, never ending demand for commercials.

[Franco Cozzo]

Current model HiAce that's bonneted is way better than the old cab over junk,

Renault Traffic is OK but only in manual, don't get the auto because it's a piece of ****.

I'd prioritise HiAce, then Renault Traffic then Hyundai Staria Load.

If you were willing to look at Chinese I'd suggest LDV Deliver 9

[Citroënbender]

What’s the business model?

(I realise the short answer is probably “highly reactive following protracted inertia” but mean, do they get run into the ground or traded?)

…the Chinese stuff is off the table.

Actually, IIRC, Vans are off the wall?

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

What’s the business model?

(I realise the short answer is probably “highly reactive following protracted inertia” but mean, do they get run into the ground or traded?)

Actually, IIRC, Vans are off the wall?

Generally ran into the ground, they are not "car people".

[XR Martin]

New Hiace is pretty damn good, stick your head underneath and its all heavy duty stuff.

Older ones were unkillable too.

Staria isn't bad, but expensive to repair and long wait times on parts

[Franco Cozzo]

Is something smaller on the cards? Renault Kangoo could be a good fit, comes in a LWB version too.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Is something smaller on the cards? Renault Kangoo could be a good fit, comes in a LWB version too.

I initially thought of those, but we sort of need the length.

[Citroënbender]

Maybe order one in black?

[au2000]

Hiace, new one was great, son also had a LDV which I gotta admit was bloody good tbh, Renaults, we have them at work, always breaking down or missing door handles ….

[kevino]

I d back up new Hiace
I work as a volunteer for a community transport org
We have about 13 of the old style Hiace
They are virtually bulletproof different driver every day but keep plodding along
The new Hiace are much better wide track better cubic load capacity
I ve spoken to a few owners re new Hiace / they rate them highly

The Transit is off your list but I doubt Ford would have stock as it comes from Europe and as we all know Ford Ute Aus are not able to satisfactorily source any Ford EUR vehicles which is a disgrace but another topic

Rip Focus Fiesta Escape

[Dr Smith]

Which model Transit did your company run....I'm guessing the large van and not the Custom?

I have a 2017 auto Transit Custom 340 LWB and no issue with buying a new one if they would take orders.
I've owned a 2018 Trafic Crew Lifestyle, had 6 seats and it drove very well, probably rode the most car-like. It was a manual. Only had it for 2 years as I needed something with a higher tow ball down limit of 80Kg. So now I have a 2021 Vito 119CD and MB have just kept increasing pricing.

We treat our vans very well as I'm paying for them and if they're off the road we can't make any money so I make sure others know the second they hear or feel something odd to call me.

HiAce was never an option as it never had rear barn doors (until recently) and a low tow rating as we need 2000Kg + towing ability.

While HiAce looks as large as the other euro med. size vans, the side step cut outs rob it of some space and the cabin area is larger taking away rear cargo area length.

If you're looking at the HiAce SLWB then that's Transit van, Sprinter/Crafter class size.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Dr Smith

Which model Transit did your company run....I'm guessing the large van and not the Custom?

I have a 2017 auto Transit Custom 340 LWB and no issue with buying a new one if they would take orders.
I've owned a 2018 Trafic Crew Lifestyle, had 6 seats and it drove very well, probably rode the most car-like. It was a manual. Only had it for 2 years as I needed something with a higher tow ball down limit of 80Kg. So now I have a 2021 Vito 119CD and MB have just kept increasing pricing.

We treat our vans very well as I'm paying for them and if they're off the road we can't make any money so I make sure others know the second they hear or feel something odd to call me.

HiAce was never an option as it never had rear barn doors (until recently) and a low tow rating as we need 2000Kg + towing ability.

While HiAce looks as large as the other euro med. size vans, the side step cut outs rob it of some space and the cabin area is larger taking away rear cargo area length.

If you're looking at the HiAce SLWB then that's Transit van, Sprinter/Crafter class size.

Lol, they have never ran one, rather they are going off the trouble a supplier had with his going back 20+ years ago. You know how it is..................

If it wasn't for the wait, I'd have no issue buying a Transit,

[prktkljokr]

Mitsubishi Express is a Renault Traffic in Mitsubishi clothing, its funny though that the replacement panels come in Mitsubishi boxes

The Mitsubishi do a Povo version thats quite cheap compared to the Renault, I think its like $10,000 cheaper for pretty much the same van.

[XR Martin]

Mitsubishi have stopped selling them, over a year ago in fact.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Mitsubishi have stopped selling them, over a year ago in fact.

From memory, because it came to market much later than the Traffic, the Mitsubishi ended up being crash tested to a newer ANCAP protocol and subsequently scored quite low, even though it was the same vehicle. Fleets then ignored the Express because it wasn't 5-Star ANCAP rated and sales collapsed. Mitsubishi then dropped it.

Yet another example of the stupid NCAP/ANCAP system.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

Mitsubishi have stopped selling them, over a year ago in fact.

Well that counts them out then, never been in the market for a van myself, see plenty of bent ones come through work, thought they were still selling them 🤔

[smoo]

I do note Iveco always seem to have stock whenever I drive past their dealers, consider an Iveco Daily?
I have no experience or opinion of them, but their engines have been around for 20 years so one would think any issues have been sorted.
I can remember when I was an apprentice we were a service agent for Iveco, I had to move a 160hp Daily cab/chassis converted into a camper van 50km or so down the motorway, I backed off at 140kmh but it was still pulling.

[lamborghinifan]

I’m 2 weeks into a brand new hiace, waited 18 months for it.
I’ve been in iloads for the last 12 years, very horrible box hiace before that, and Volkswagens before that.
We picked hiace over the others for a few reasons.
Size good,
Tech good. Interior is acceptable, seating position is a little high.
Had to turn off a bit of the annoying stuff, but drives pretty well.
Doesn’t handle as well as an iload, but better suspension rides better under weight. Runs slightly wider track and tyre profile.
Not quite as punchy as the iload, but close.
Transmission is spot on, leaves the iload for dead.
It’s a novelty having reverse cameras and sensors.
Leather steering wheel is a very nice touch.
Height is a bit too high, maybe 100mm higher than iload with racks ladders on etc.
Staria is just so ugly. Skinny, and a super low window line. We couldn’t come at it. Why stop the iload, best selling van for years….
Cab is much bigger than the Renault or the ford. We custom fitted aftermarket third seat, which is much roomier that the Hyundai ever was.
Renault auto DCT or whatever it is was a big turn off, and reliability (perceived or otherwise) seems to be good in the Toyota comparably.
Towing capacity is a little low, although the bars have 1900kg stamped all over them
Very easy to kit out being boxy and square, kids think the designers went for the Lego set to get the profile.
Fuel economy this early in the piece, same driving and load, seems to be a bit high, somewhere round 12l/100 for mixed driving.
Hope that helps, but gone are the days of an a grade van on the road for 35k for sure!

[Franco Cozzo]

What about an Isuzu van pack?

https://www.isuzu.com.au/our-range/r...-work/vanpack/

Can be driven on car licence, is a bit bigger than a typical van and a lot more robust, just stick to the manual instead of the AMT.



Or Hyundai Mighty EX4 Pantech

https://hyundaitrucks.com.au/our-range/pantech

Hyundai has a smaller body and shorter wheelbase that might be more appropriate

3,600L x 2,100W x 1900H or 4,200L x 2,390W x 1900H

Stock availability is good on these little Jap/Korean trucks

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

What about an Isuzu van pack?

https://www.isuzu.com.au/our-range/r...-work/vanpack/

Can be driven on car licence, is a bit bigger than a typical van and a lot more robust, just stick to the manual instead of the AMT.

image

Or Hyundai Mighty EX4 Pantech

https://hyundaitrucks.com.au/our-range/pantech

Hyundai has a smaller body and shorter wheelbase that might be more appropriate



Stock availability is good on these little Jap/Korean trucks

Would be good to have that on the fleet, but the vehicle must double as a daily driver, so just too big.

They were originally looking at another dual cab Thailux, but they are virtually useless for our industry. Having a second van on the fleet would be far more useful.

[prktkljokr]

I have driven a Mighty, bit of a slug compared to a Canter, Hino or Isuzu, and only attractive because the of the included Pantech for $79,000 makes it a instant buy over the $66,000 Isuzu cab chassis.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I have driven a Mighty, bit of a slug compared to a Canter, Hino or Isuzu, and only attractive because the of the included Pantech for $79,000 makes it a instant buy over the $66,000 Isuzu cab chassis.

Auto has significantly more torque (600nm vs 392nm) and about 30hp more (170hp vs 140hp) than the manual Mighty EX4, it's also an Allison torque converter auto.

SWB with short Pantech could be a goer because it'll be practical without being too unwieldy to drive

[kevino]

Forgot about Iveco
Worth a look must be a manual though

[kevino]

That’s a good point
A lot of car parks are 2.5 m max height

[Dr Smith]

Originally Posted by kevino

That’s a good point
A lot of car parks are 2.5 m max height

and a lot are even 1.95-2.05m

[kevino]

Falcon panel van?
Oh wait
Rip Falcon Fiesta Focus Escape

Lwb Vw Caddy?

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by kevino

Falcon panel van?
Oh wait
Rip Falcon Fiesta Focus Escape

Lwb Vw Caddy?

They might not be long enough even in LWB guise, was suggested earlier about the Peugeot/Citroen jobs

The daily driver aspect makes this a pain in the ***, just buy a truck and a $5000 ****box for commuter duty

[tbro4123]

So if the VW has been good and you can't get them then why aren't you looking at the Sprinter, same same as made in the same factory, not sure about motors but if the ambos use the Sprinter then they need to be reliable.


I've had 4 sprinters,all basically ambo spec with the first 2 manuals, first one was a 2008 315, retired to spare at 850,000kms 2019, next one was a 2012 316 same sort of mileage annually, pensioned to out west depot in 2018 and as far as I know still running all over the place.
Purchased 2 more in 2018,were stripped out and sold separately when we sold the business, all fitted with alloy bull bars, safety cage behind seats and rubber mats on the cargo area and rear step/tow bar. We then fitted them out as service units with all the lights and whistles needed, only issue was we needed to keep an eye on weights when loaded to do a country service run, oils parts and usually 2 or more condenser units 100kgs each plus gas and equip.


Only repairs was a set of turbos at 600,ooo kms, clutch and flywheel and shocks.

Fuel when running normal between 9 to 10/100kms, big load same sort of mileage, mostly highway mileage.


Always serviced at 10,000 kms, always used Cost Effective fuel products and genuine filters (we ran 99% Merc products and got a very good price on parts Tyres ( Continentals) every 90,000 to 100,000 kms


My only bitch with the 2008 the lousy radio and uncomfortable drivers seat after 6 hrs of driving.


Expensive??? maybe compared to Jap/asian stuff, but in the long run you get what you pay for and breakdowns are very expensive if it cost you a customer.


The first one




Good luck choosing one.


Terry aka Tbro

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by tbro4123

So if the VW has been good and you can't get them then why aren't you looking at the Sprinter, same same as made in the same factory, not sure about motors but if the ambos use the Sprinter then they need to be reliable.


I've had 4 sprinters,all basically ambo spec with the first 2 manuals, first one was a 2008 315, retired to spare at 850,000kms 2019, next one was a 2012 316 same sort of mileage annually, pensioned to out west depot in 2018 and as far as I know still running all over the place.
Purchased 2 more in 2018,were stripped out and sold separately when we sold the business, all fitted with alloy bull bars, safety cage behind seats and rubber mats on the cargo area and rear step/tow bar. We then fitted them out as service units with all the lights and whistles needed, only issue was we needed to keep an eye on weights when loaded to do a country service run, oils parts and usually 2 or more condenser units 100kgs each plus gas and equip.


Only repairs was a set of turbos at 600,ooo kms, clutch and flywheel and shocks.

Fuel when running normal between 9 to 10/100kms, big load same sort of mileage, mostly highway mileage.


Always serviced at 10,000 kms, always used Cost Effective fuel products and genuine filters (we ran 99% Merc products and got a very good price on parts Tyres ( Continentals) every 90,000 to 100,000 kms


My only bitch with the 2008 the lousy radio and uncomfortable drivers seat after 6 hrs of driving.


Expensive??? maybe compared to Jap/asian stuff, but in the long run you get what you pay for and breakdowns are very expensive if it cost you a customer.


The first one

image


Good luck choosing one.


Terry aka Tbro

Ambo spec one is good, its the medium wheel base and medium roof model, its not too long or tall.

I've worked on one or two in my time:





I reckon the 1990s/early 00s old boxy banger prior to the 2006 NCV3 model redesign drove better than the 4 cylinder spec of the Melbourne metro ambulances, more throttle response, but you hardly ever see one of the old bangers around anymore.

6 cylinder one is a good though, not sure if its still made.

Because they're used by our ambulance services nationwide spare parts availability is pretty good for aftermarket and genuine.

Used to maintain NPT's fleet of ****box patient transporters, those guys would be running these things into the ground, have them come in with 700,000km on the clock.

https://www.nptgroup.com.au/

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by tbro4123

So if the VW has been good and you can't get them then why aren't you looking at the Sprinter, same as made in the same factory, not sure about motors but if the ambos use the Sprinter then they need to be reliable.

Fuel when running normal between 9 to 10/100kms, big load same sort of mileage, mostly highway mileage.

Expensive??? maybe compared to Jap/asian stuff, but in the long run you get what you pay for and breakdowns are very expensive if it cost you a customer.

Terry aka Tbro

Last night, I went looking around on Carsales in relation to both Transporter and Mercedes Benz Vito (Sprinter is too big). I found both Transporter and Vito's in stock with anywhere between 400 to 1200 km on the clock. Both seem priced about the same, slightly more for the Vito.

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...22534477/?Cr=5
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2535766/?Cr=32

https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...21519125/?Cr=4
https://www.carsales.com.au/cars/det...2226081/?Cr=10

A Transporter is now my recommendation after hearing too many bad stories (here and otherwhere) about the Traffic. I like that it will match the Crafter. The Traffic is in stock and ready to go at the local dealer, which would make the process easy, but I think its better hunting down the better vehicle.