Rant: Dirty diesels

[Bossxr8]

I keep hearing from the manufacturers that modern diesels are now very clean and are environmentally friendly, but what happens after they get a few thousand k's under their belts. I have noticed recently that a number of these so called clean modern diesels still belt out a nice big puff of black smoke under moderate acceleration. I'm not talking about 5 year old Landcruisers with 100,000kms on them but near new Audis, BMW's and Mercs. A diesel X5 that couldn't have been more than a year old belted out the black smoke as did a diesel A4 and an near new E class Merc. None of them would have been more than 2 years old yet the black smoke from the exhaust was clearly visible and you could smell it while driving behind them.

Do diesels only stay clean when they are new and get dirty with age or what.
Diesels are also supposed to pump out heaps more NoX emissions than petrol engines as well. Are diesel engines really clean or is it just BS from the manufacturers. I'd hate to see what they were like after 10 years and 200,000 kms. Anyone else noticed this?

[Lukeyson]

they are good and cleaner for the 1st few years then make up for it from then on

[351ciofgrunt]

I've got a 4wd hilux diesel as a daily driver i love belching out black smoke into the cars behind me at the lights, and yeah i couldnt care less about the environment...thats why i've got a dirty big diesel as a daily driver and playing in the mud and a dirty big V8 for fun on the wknds/track days...love my toys :thebirds:

if i cared about pollution i'd be driving around in a little electrical shopping trolley... :

[vino3o2]

Originally Posted by 351ciofgrunt

I've got a 4wd hilux diesel as a daily driver i love belching out black smoke into the cars behind me at the lights, and yeah i couldnt care less about the environment...thats why i've got a dirty big diesel as a daily driver and playing in the mud and a dirty big V8 for fun on the wknds/track days...love my toys :thebirds:

if i cared about pollution i'd be driving around in a little electrical shopping trolley... :

Its great ti see that you care mate :togo:

It could be injector pump seals are on there way out, not metering the fuel properly, injectors need attention...a range of things, They shouldnt bellow black smoke if the services are kept up to scratch

[351ciofgrunt]

Originally Posted by vino3o2

Its great ti see that you care mate :togo:

It could be injector pump seals are on there way out, not metering the fuel properly, injectors need attention...a range of things, They shouldnt bellow black smoke if the services are kept up to scratch

if i'm belching out black smoke does that mean i'm using more fuel? damn maybe it is time to get it looked at....

[vino3o2]

Originally Posted by 351ciofgrunt

if i'm belching out black smoke does that mean i'm using more fuel? damn maybe it is time to get it looked at....

Before you were expressing how you didnt care bout the black smoke bellowing out all over everyone else and the environment, now you find out that its you that could be burning up more $$$ than you should, your concerns are raised? wtf every man for himself hey" :

[351ciofgrunt]

Thats right, dont care about pollution but do care about wasting my money...

[fiery]

Originally Posted by 351ciofgrunt

I've got a 4wd hilux diesel as a daily driver i love belching out black smoke into the cars behind me at the lights, and yeah i couldnt care less about the environment...thats why i've got a dirty big diesel as a daily driver and playing in the mud and a dirty big V8 for fun on the wknds/track days...love my toys :thebirds:

if i cared about pollution i'd be driving around in a little electrical shopping trolley... :

So your probably the horrible 4wd that I seem to end up behind at lights and nearly end up choking and heaving on that disgusting big black stream of smoke..... one word for ya bastad :the_finge : :evil_laug

[4.9 EF Futura]

I think diesel gas emissions are lower than petrol but its the fact that they spew out solid particles which make them so feeeelthy??

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

I think diesel gas emissions are lower than petrol but its the fact that they spew out solid particles which make them so feeeelthy??

In some areas yes, in others no. The main type of pollution they measure which is carbon monoxide I think, diesels are lower, but they are much higher in the level of nitrides of oxygen? or something like that. Either that or I don't know what the hell i'm talking about, which is quite possible. :

[Falcon Coupe]

My new diesel is very clean no smoke at all, the thing that surprised me was how dirty the diesel bowsers are at the service stations, you normally stand in a puddle of filth and use a greasy black pump.

[ltd]

Yeah diesel exhaust is much lower in carbon monoxide, benzine, and a few other nasties however there is a lot of particulate (soot) when they run rich (accelerating). In a normal petrol engine under enrichment conditions some of the fuel is unburnt and is later burnt in the catalytic convertor, only to come out with a slight colouration from particulate generated from less than optimum combustion temperatures and pressures in the exhaust. We've all seen newish falcons and commodores blowing a little black smoke when someone is in a hurry.

Diesels on the other hand have no cat, and as such they burn the rich mixture but not quite fully. As there is less particles of oxygen in the mix compared to the greater amount of fuel, less than normal optimum combustion (air/fuel/emmissions) conditions occur. The resultant combustion is not as efficient meaning the diesel has not burnt at a set desired mixture and one of the side effects is particulate, also called soot. This is one of the reasons for little puffs of black smoke when accelerating.

This condition is not unusual in Diesels; much the same as prime movers always tending to blow huge amounts of particulate on acceleration, and when not under excessive load they have a very low particulate, almost clear exhaust.

For diesels that blow smoke under all conditions, typically they are non turbo ie Mazda E series, and are also running a highly rich mixture. In most cases, the injectors and/or the pump are in such poor condition that this rich mixture is occurring in 1 or 2 of the cylinders, whilst the others run lean. A good tell tale sign of this condition in diesels is a slightly elevated engine temperature; as the leaner you go, the higher the temp.

[rodderz]

It could also come down to the servicing schedule of the owner too

The diesel we get here is not as clean as over in Europe, one guy even suggested that it is like comparing dam water to drinking water. Maybe over the next few years when we get the better quality stuff the diesel cars will seem a lot better than they already are in all aspects

[ltd]

We did I think in 1998-99 try and get better/more european formulated diesels and as such we lowered the amount of sulpher in diesel from 500ppm to 50ppm; the result was diesel pump seals leaking on many pre 1995 diesels. The move was legislated by the government to reduce diesel particulate/visible pollution.
Some Euro companies wouldn't even sell their diesel models here until this change either.

[kryzak260]

Originally Posted by ltd

We did I think in 1998-99 try and get better/more european formulated diesels and as such we lowered the amount of sulpher in diesel from 500ppm to 50ppm; the result was diesel pump seals leaking on many pre 1995 diesels. The move was legislated by the government to reduce diesel particulate/visible pollution.
Some Euro companies wouldn't even sell their diesel models here until this change either.

Ive heard this, and ive also heard that we are supposed to be getting legislation to further reduce the sulpher content to <10ppm from the end of 2007 or 2008. This will bring us in line with or pretty close to the low sulpher diesel in europe and we should start seeing more european diesels here.

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

I'd hate to see what they were like after 10 years and 200,000 kms. Anyone else noticed this?

Our ol' Merc 240D did 450,000 km in 25 years and was serviced accordingly throughout the life of the motor and never did put out any black smoke under acceleration throughout all points of throttle application.

ltd has pretty much nailed on the head so there isn't much more I can say lol.

Its often sad to see, when a nice X5/other top end euro diesels puff out clouds of black smoke. Ruins the classiness of the car.

[Shonky]

I drove a Volkswagen T4 Transporter Ambulance the other day that was 2 years old and had 25 000 kms on the clock... Blew more smoke than the Malboro Man...

"Theoretically" being an emergency vehicle it (should) be up to date with its services.

Oh well... It started running a lot cleaner after about 20 mins. Gotta love the sound of a 5 cylinder Turbo Diesel though!

[pandaman]

Originally Posted by Young 'un

I drove a Volkswagen T4 Transporter Ambulance the other day that was 2 years old and had 25 000 kms on the clock... Blew more smoke than the Malboro Man...

"Theoretically" being an emergency vehicle it (should) be up to date with its services.

Oh well... It started running a lot cleaner after about 20 mins. Gotta love the sound of a 5 cylinder Turbo Diesel though!

Ahahhahaha, up to date, ahahahaha, oohh dear. Even if it has been serviced by the manufacturers servicing schedule (unlikely, although in recent years it has improved) emergency services vehicles dont tend to follow the manufacturerers intended usage cycle. For example, out here at the Bungendore RFS, we have a 1988/1989 Izusu CAT1 tanker, it has less than 60,0000 klicks on the dial (good for the resale value ey?). However we should be thankful it doesn't have an hour meter on it, because that thing has spent literally thousands of hours sitting at idle in the middle of nowhere sucking in fine particles from smoke (Hate to think what it's doing to my lungs, but I doubt I'll live long enough for that to be a problem). So the bores glaze, the injectors clag up and the damn thing runs rich because of the amount of crap clogging the air filter. The amount of smoke that thing used to blow was insane, on a maintenance run last year, I was in the truck behind and I thought the damn thing had caught fire! However, after someone cleaned the airfilter, chucked two bottles of injector cleaner in and gave it a good flogging to clean the bores off it's back to a reasonable working order.

If a diesel is blowing smoke, it means it's not working optimally, except in the case of prime movers/really old diesels where it may just be a setup thing. But if a brand new beamer or even a landcruiser is smokin, it means it isn't being looked after properly. Solution: Slap the owner and tell 'em to take it to their authorised service provider for rectification.

[Des]

Can't remember where I read it, but, doesn't the hi levels of UV in Australia compound the problem of diesel pollution? Something to do with the UV reacting with the exhaust fumes to "cook" more of it into solid particulates or somesuch....There's gotta be someone out there who would know....

*edit*
check out this link I found, dates from 2003 but does have info about 2006 and onwards....Dirty Diesel

[pandaman]

Originally Posted by Des

Can't remember where I read it, but, doesn't the hi levels of UV in Australia compound the problem of diesel pollution? Something to do with the UV reacting with the exhaust fumes to "cook" more of it into solid particulates or somesuch....There's gotta be someone out there who would know....

Hmm, it's a possibility, but I can't see that kind of a reaction having such an immediate reaction, ie. straight from the exhaust pipe. I have no troube believing that such a reaction could be responsible for creating smog over a large area and timescale.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by Des

Can't remember where I read it, but, doesn't the hi levels of UV in Australia compound the problem of diesel pollution? Something to do with the UV reacting with the exhaust fumes to "cook" more of it into solid particulates or somesuch....There's gotta be someone out there who would know....

*edit*
check out this link I found, dates from 2003 but does have info about 2006 and onwards....Dirty Diesel

I remember reading something about that too. The higher levels of sunlight and UV make diesel pollution more dangerous here than in dark, wet Europe.

[Shonky]

Originally Posted by pandaman

Ahahhahaha, up to date, ahahahaha, oohh dear. Even if it has been serviced by the manufacturers servicing schedule (unlikely, although in recent years it has improved) emergency services vehicles dont tend to follow the manufacturerers intended usage cycle.

Hence the inverted commas... :togo:

[Dazza XLT]

I drive a Rodeo Turbo Diesel for work. It has done 100,000. Regular services completed, and not a puff of smoke.
I see some trucks at the intersection at work, it is like a bloody smoke screen, and not just on initial acceleration either, still sooting half way down the bloody road! (And No, I am not labelling all truckies here)
Mostly older trucks, V8 Macks etc are the worse offenders. Not a puff from all the newer trucks.

[Electric]

Diesels also put out about 25% less CO2 (greenhouse gas) than petrol engines..

[jonk]

It's the injectors.

[flathead 276]

Fella's & ladies, I've driven both lpg & diesel forklifts, whilst loading shipping containers. Lpg fumes are quicker to dissipate than diesel fumes. Point I am trying to make is even with regular services diesel is still not as clean. But it helps, I now drive diesel locomotives, I do realise this is off topic, but as someone who has spent nearly twenty years around diesels, I myself would like a better alternative. By all means the technology for diesels is better now than then, the engines then did not reach speeds of 190 kmh or race at Le mans as BMW did a little while ago, whatever it takes to keep the internal combustion engine will help whilst work goes on for a viable altrenative.

[5L]

my dads got a 96' 2.8 dielsel hilux and its done close to 250,000km's and it doesnt blow out any smoke. i guess it comes down to how you treat your cars, my dad is a tightar$e so he drives like a granny round town, but only gets serious bout his driving once he is out 4x4ing.

[Pieoter]

They are blowing smoke becuase the drivers are running WOT and near WOT and havn't been servicing it properly.