Intimidated by APIA

LOCO XP · 28-07-2008, 12:41 AM

To join in on the recent spate of car accident/legal advice threads, sorry, but anyway... I was talking to my sister who's '88 Laser Ghia received a nice little tap at 5am in the morning driving back from bar work in Melbourne, by a later model Commodore. After being verbally attacked by the driver who suffered a bit of front-end damage (1 headlight, bonnet and bumper) and her Laser getting tapped on the driver's side , she left her name and number and left it at that. Anyway, this late 30-something bloke who lives at home with his folks and was driving their car (hence APIA's involvement) is a multi-faceted individual, who continues to contact her, either to yell, demand payment of the excess, or....to quote "Well how about we call it square and you go out for drinks with me (she's 24). Anyway, after a few weeks of sleaze or attacks, APIA has contacted her demanding payment of $6500 in repairs. As she is currently working only p/t, she laughed and said she can't possibly cough up or source that kinda coin. Anyway they asked for any bank, tax or payment details. This is where I come in. I said dont give them anything, refuse to answer calls or comply with their requests. From what she understands, she isn't at fault, and her explaination of events fits that in my mind also. No police reports were filled hence it is her word vs his. At the time she had only NSW CTP, but has since taken full comprehensive. Anyway my thoughts are to contact the person but hope to seek some thoughts and clarification, before potentially seeking professional advice. My feeling is APIA and the man involved don't really have much to base a claim on, and its the old bluff and intimidation tactic.

billkara · 28-07-2008, 12:56 AM

yeah sounds suss, make sure she doesnt give them any of her details, and if the harrassement persists contact the police and get and avo against him.

Abacus · 28-07-2008, 01:00 AM

Also make sure she doesn't in any way accept or infer acceptance of liability for the accident.

deesun · 28-07-2008, 01:27 AM

Did they contact by phone or mail. If only by phone, back away, back away, sounds too suss. If by writing then seek legals and give no details.

28-07-2008, 01:28 AM

This isn't that complex. If she was at fault, she should get her insurer to pay for the damage. If she doesn't have insurance, she will get sucked into a costly payment plan and will regret the accident for a while.

The calls from the guy can very easily be stopped. Usually a cop will just phone the guy and tell him not to call. If he had full comp on the car, his insurer will cover the damage to his car and chase the payment up from her.

If she is 100% sure she can defend her not being at fault, this might end up in the courts. In which case she will be lucky to find a "no win, no fee" lawyer, but I doubt they'll accept a dubious case like this.

Quite simply, your sister is coming up against an insurance conglomerate. Ignoring them is not the best course of action. For sure.

edit: Also, there should be a lot of paperwork involved now. Including quotes etc. If not, there's something wrong and he's trying to jib you personally.

Abacus · 28-07-2008, 01:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shounak

This isn't that complex. If she was at fault, she should get her insurer to pay for the damage. If she doesn't have insurance, she will get sucked into a costly payment plan and will regret the accident for a while.

In the first post the OP says "At the time she had only NSW CTP".

deesun · 28-07-2008, 02:12 AM

Second one tonight NO insurance.

:

: Glad none of them hit my car.

Falcon_Crazy · 28-07-2008, 06:21 AM

I didn;t report an accident that wasn't my fault. It was only after accident investigator from the insurance company contacted me for details that he realised there was no way i was at fault.

i regret not contacting Police to report the incident.

Rodp · 28-07-2008, 06:58 AM

No matter how small, the accident should always be reported to the Police. It's 5 minutes worth of paperwork to jot down your version of events. It's possibly too late to do now, but I'd tell her to get her bum straight down the local cop shop and explain the situation, harassment and hopefully fill out an accident report.

Hunter · 28-07-2008, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

No matter how small, the accident should always be reported to the Police. It's 5 minutes worth of paperwork to jot down your version of events. It's possibly too late to do now, but I'd tell her to get her bum straight down the local cop shop and explain the situation, harassment and hopefully fill out an accident report.

Yeah this is good in theory but in QLD I have been told they WILL NOT TURN UP unless someone is seriously injured or killed.

And to prove this point many years ago I had an acco and well I suspected the damage may exceed $2500 (the point at which you're legally obligated to get the police involved). Both me and the other party waited around for 3 1/2 hours and they STILL DID NOT SHOW UP.

:

So yeah, I agree with your advice in principle but it doesn't seem to be reinforced by the cops. I can understand they have better things to do but having the cops present assists in resolving issues and preventing cases like this clogging the courts up...

As for the OP, well, I would seek legal advice - a lot of firms won't charge you for your initial consult because that is when they will tell you whether or not they think your chances of defending it are good.

Insurance companies are sneaky bastards - I had some woman run up the back of the Falcon a few months back while talking on her phone and her insurance company called me up, did not identify themselves (other than to say 'we're calling about your claim') and proceeded to try and get me to say things to incriminate myself (which I refused to answer). I asked her who she was and why she was calling me. Then I tore her a new one and told her to leave me alone and talk to my insurer directly. They tried this tactic AGAIN on me at which point I again asked them to talk to my insurer and that if they continued to call me that they would hear from my solicitor. Thankfully they left me alone after that.

Unfortunately since your sister did not have insurance at the time, she could be in a lot of trouble - the real benefit of fully comp is that they're basically like legal warriors who can go into bat for you (because the insurer's interests usually align with yours, i.e. you win the claim). But yeah as I said, if your sister receives letters of demand etc she should speak with a solicitor ASAP.

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconboy

Keep a written diary of any calls, letters, including details of what is said between the parties. It may help if it goes to court.

Yes definitely do this - written records should include times dates etc and what was said etc. Diagrams also help. Write down everything you can.

Quote:

Maybe she needs to write a letter, with the facts of how the incident occured, and deny she is in any way at fault, and send it to APIA. If they see she won't back down easily, it might help.

If I were the guy's sister I would NOT try and fight it myself - be extremely careful with what you send to them because they can quite easily twist what you say around and make it look like its your fault. Trying to fight it yourself could end very badly and be very very messy.

Rodp · 29-07-2008, 04:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hunter

Yeah this is good in theory but in QLD I have been told they WILL NOT TURN UP unless someone is seriously injured or killed.

And to prove this point many years ago I had an acco and well I suspected the damage may exceed $2500 (the point at which you're legally obligated to get the police involved). Both me and the other party waited around for 3 1/2 hours and they STILL DID NOT SHOW UP.

:

With an accident report form, you show up to the cop shop and fill out the paperwork. No need for them to come to the scene.

JAYMZ · 28-07-2008, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rodp

No matter how small, the accident should always be reported to the Police. It's 5 minutes worth of paperwork to jot down your version of events. It's possibly too late to do now, but I'd tell her to get her bum straight down the local cop shop and explain the situation, harassment and hopefully fill out an accident report.

If you want to involve the police and get them to sort it out then they have to charge someone. Either yourself or the other person. Sometimes not worth it.

The G6ET Spot · 28-07-2008, 06:18 PM

In NSW an accident should always be made to the police at a station within 24hrs of the accident.

If any car has to be towed the police HAVE to be called to the scene of the accident.

I do feel sorry for the harassment that your sister has been getting from the other deadbeat driver. But in saying that I cannot believe that she was driver around in a car uninsured.

I think it is about time that we took a leaf from the USA and made it law that all cars have third party property insurance.

steve.zissou · 28-07-2008, 06:26 PM

The reason I got insurance - not to cover my car but for dealing with the legals when someone is a d*ck.

First of all write a stat dec and if you can get someone with legal knowlege/exsperience to look over it even better (a solisitor is probably overboard in this case). Be smart in what you put down.

Confirm that it was APIA calling you - when this happened to me everthing was via snail mail so the calls are a bit sus.

If APIA are intimidating you go to your friendly ombudsman. (call the cops about the weirdo - to have it on record atleast)
http://www.insuranceombudsman.com.au/

In my case a nob pull out crossed three lanes (80kmh zone and infront of my car). I filled all the paper work and made a claim through their insurance (I had none) and then they decided to claim against me and basically said you have no chance if we take it to court (look at our legal dept) so pay up. After some argy bargy no one could prove anything and I think thats what they wanted.
message to all = Get insurance!!! (and a video camera thats on all the time)

Rodp · 29-07-2008, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JAYMZ

If you want to involve the police and get them to sort it out then they have to charge someone. Either yourself or the other person. Sometimes not worth it.

Maybe it's different in NSW. You just have to rock up to the cop shop within 24 hours and fill in an accident report form. In fact, I believe it's mandatory to do if you're going to involve an insurance company. No need to get the cops to turn up to the scene.

If it's not mandatory elsewhere, I'd still want it done. It's your version of events on an official document - if people want to start forcing the blame on you after the fact when you're not at fault, at least you've got something in defence. You also can't be booked if you're the at fault driver and you've filled in an accident report form.

XR Martin · 28-07-2008, 07:05 AM

Police only care if one or more of the vehicles were immobilised and or someone was injured. Otherwise its a civil matter. They've got better things to do than dealing with fender benders.
Get her to write a letter detailing the events of the accident including the harrassment by the other party, the insurance company wont be happy about his involvement, and due to his actions you should actually have the upper hand.

BlackLS · 28-07-2008, 07:36 AM

Yeah write a stat dec send to insurance company.

OLDFORDNUT · 28-07-2008, 08:25 AM

if her damage is to back of car and his is in front then id say he has ran into back of her car ,perfect case for her to claim from his insureance,which she should have done first thing day after accident

Racecraft · 28-07-2008, 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

if her damage is to back of car and his is in front then id say he has ran into back of her car ,perfect case for her to claim from his insureance,which she should have done first thing day after accident

Exactly, unless she was reversing the Commodore is at fault. She should be chasing him for money

J_Tank · 28-07-2008, 04:41 PM

she left only her name and number, no insurance details and the other party's insurance company has contacted her regarding the matter? How exactly is this intimidation on the part of APIA? The other guy for sure, but they're simply doing what insurance companies do.

:

falconboy · 28-07-2008, 05:00 PM

Keep a written diary of any calls, letters, including details of what is said between the parties. It may help if it goes to court.

Maybe she needs to write a letter, with the facts of how the incident occured, and deny she is in any way at fault, and send it to APIA. If they see she won't back down easily, it might help.

atec77 · 28-07-2008, 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOCO XP

To join in on the recent spate of car accident/legal advice threads, sorry, but anyway... I was talking to my sister who's '88 Laser Ghia received a nice little tap at 5am in the morning driving back from bar work in Melbourne, by a later model Commodore. After being verbally attacked by the driver who suffered a bit of front-end damage (1 headlight, bonnet and bumper) and her Laser getting tapped on the driver's side , she left her name and number and left it at that. Anyway, this late 30-something bloke who lives at home with his folks and was driving their car (hence APIA's involvement) is a multi-faceted individual, who continues to contact her, either to yell, demand payment of the excess, or....to quote "Well how about we call it square and you go out for drinks with me (she's 24). Anyway, after a few weeks of sleaze or attacks, APIA has contacted her demanding payment of $6500 in repairs. As she is currently working only p/t, she laughed and said she can't possibly cough up or source that kinda coin. Anyway they asked for any bank, tax or payment details. This is where I come in. I said dont give them anything, refuse to answer calls or comply with their requests. From what she understands, she isn't at fault, and her explaination of events fits that in my mind also. No police reports were filled hence it is her word vs his. At the time she had only NSW CTP, but has since taken full comprehensive. Anyway my thoughts are to contact the person but hope to seek some thoughts and clarification, before potentially seeking professional advice. My feeling is APIA and the man involved don't really have much to base a claim on, and its the old bluff and intimidation tactic.

She needs to write a complete net of notes dated that day , a diary entry is acceptable in court , do you have photo's? , now get someone /legal to write a letter detailing very little apart from an open denial and statement of who is actually at fault and wait .... in the mean time go have a chat to your local station Srgt and she can express her concerns about the intimidation and threats.. dress accordingly to illicit the maximum response because of her youth and inexperience . Get back to us if you cant sort it out .

LOCO XP · 28-07-2008, 11:04 PM

Thanks for the tips, plenty of food for thought. Police have been contacted twice since the incident (firstly to detail the incident, secondly regarding the harrassment) however to little avail. Interesting that somebody who gets hit by another driver, regardless of insurance status has all this hassle, yet another incident which springs to mind was my friend having an accident in his AU 4 years ago. He was well over the limit, writing off his car and the two in front of him!, and being held overnight as a result....other than writing off his car and paying the premium and being able to obtain first option on the wreck ($1200 from wreckers) and losing license for 18 months, he hasn't been pursued by the other individuals insurers whatsoever....I'm convinced that it will happen, but who knows.

Hunter · 28-07-2008, 11:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LOCO XP

Thanks for the tips, plenty of food for thought. Police have been contacted twice since the incident (firstly to detail the incident, secondly regarding the harrassment) however to little avail. Interesting that somebody who gets hit by another driver, regardless of insurance status has all this hassle, yet another incident which springs to mind was my friend having an accident in his AU 4 years ago. He was well over the limit, writing off his car and the two in front of him!, and being held overnight as a result....other than writing off his car and paying the premium and being able to obtain first option on the wreck ($1200 from wreckers) and losing license for 18 months, he hasn't been pursued by the other individuals insurers whatsoever....I'm convinced that it will happen, but who knows.

As I said, this is why insurance is good - its not just good for getting things fixed but also dealing with a-holes like the guy who hit your sister.

FGII-XR6 · 28-07-2008, 11:37 PM

anyone who drives witout at least 3rd party property damage insurance is an idiot and deserves all they get.

Falcon_Phill · 28-07-2008, 11:46 PM

1. Get her to go out to dinner or 'drinks' with him.

2. Go with her

:

HOEBAG · 29-07-2008, 02:14 AM

i'm with falcon phil on this one.
take a cam too. could be worth a laugh.

GreenMachine · 29-07-2008, 04:47 PM

Yeah, same thing happened to me when some silly old cow collected me in her VN wagon while I was test driving a car yard's EA Ghia for a mate (both written off - society won). Cops came out, told her she was a fool and to bugger off, told me I was sweet. Which was good, because the call to the car yard was along the lines of "Crashed it? Bugger! Nah, we don't insure them. Let me know when it's being towed back. Bye"

Next thing I know I've got letters of demand from AAMI (VN woman's insurer) saying all sorts of nasty things.

Wrote them a very stern letter outlining the facts and ending with "In light of the above, I assert again that I was not at fault in this incident. I suggest that in lieu of further correspondence, your client either withdraw the complaint or file an action in the appropriate court"

P.s., go die in a fire.

Never heard from them again.