|
|
30-08-2005, 12:56 PM | #1 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: S.A.
Posts: 4,611
|
it's probably been done before, but it seems to be a passionate subject to most of us. So I created this thread to stop poluting another thread http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...7&page=2&pp=25
I have used LPG, I have a fitters licence and have had something to do with it for the past 15 years. My feelings are mixed though, from what I have seen a well maintained LPG engine for the average user will last as long as a petrol engine, but most don't get the correct servicing & end up with oil leaks, mechanical noise & excess emissions. Quote:
Quote:
|
||||
30-08-2005, 01:00 PM | #2 | ||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
As I've stated many times, LPG all the way. It's a hell of alot cheaper then petrol (118.9 cpl regular, 127.9cpl premium, 38.9cpl LPG), and IMO, a much better fuel.
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
||
30-08-2005, 01:29 PM | #3 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Not suffering Fools Gladly!!
Posts: 2,864
|
Quote:
|
|||
30-08-2005, 01:30 PM | #4 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
Quote:
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
|||
30-08-2005, 01:31 PM | #5 | |||
Grinder+Welder = Race car
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Briz-Vegas
Posts: 3,937
|
Quote:
__________________
"No, it will never have enough power until I can spin the wheels at the end of the straightaway in high gear" - Too much power is never enough....Mark Donohue on the Can Am Porsche 917. |
|||
30-08-2005, 01:33 PM | #6 | |||
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide SA
Posts: 5,584
|
Quote:
__________________
1965 XP Falcon Deluxe Sedan 1978 XC Falcon Wagon Rallypack 2003 BA Fairlane G220 Windsor Powah!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7hT9dxD2hM |
|||
30-08-2005, 02:00 PM | #7 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 195
|
Both of my cars are LPG, one dedicated and one duel fuel.
Yes, LPG requires a bit more care, but the price difference on a weekly basis ($26 versus $78 per tank of gas) more than makes up for the cost of higher grade oil when changing, or higher spec spark plugs, etc. LPG is a non-imported product, is less polluting than petrol, and allows me to spend more money on goods and services which benefit the domestic economy. If you've never run a car on gas, then you're not qualified to comment. |
||
30-08-2005, 01:01 PM | #8 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Utah
Posts: 3,479
|
i know LPG isnt 100% propane , i think its got a mix of Butane? But it's a lot more than 5% more in consumption, burns hotter, smells aweful, isnt much cheaper than petrol when you remove the big tax component from both and take in to consideration its 25% increase in consumption, non lubricating for the engine, and despite all the theories in the world, less power is usually achieved in reality. So i cant see a lot of advantage to it, other than its taxed a lot less at the moment
|
||
30-08-2005, 01:04 PM | #9 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
Quote:
And petrol fumes are alot worse to smell then LPG fumes... petrol fumes give me a headache... LPG fumes just stink like rotten egg, but no associated issues from smelling them. They're far less toxic.
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
|||
30-08-2005, 01:22 PM | #10 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,083
|
Quote:
__________________
Older, wiser, poorer. Now in Euro-Trash. VW Coupe V6 4motion.
|
|||
30-08-2005, 01:23 PM | #11 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
Quote:
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
|||
30-08-2005, 01:02 PM | #12 | ||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
I'll also post this up from that other thread.
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
||
30-08-2005, 01:03 PM | #13 | ||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
|
lol @ when you remove the big tax component, when is that going to happen.
given excise on LPG will still have LPG costing around 1/2 what ULP does.. and when u consider its currently almost 1/3 the cost of ULP.. LPG rocks.
__________________
FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating EL GT - Supercharged NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo OFFROADER - Ford Explorer |
||
30-08-2005, 01:09 PM | #14 | ||
X-Series Club Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 1,952
|
Cost effectiveness of LPG is the number 1 argument for LPG, not matter which way you look at it. $0.50 vs $1.30 is an amazing difference, and even with the so called 28% difference as stated above, it's still a cost effective fuel compared to petrol!
I think the biggest problem with LPG that gives it a bad name is people run dual fuel and leave their engine setup for petrol.... obviously you litres consumption for every 100km's and power output will be better on petrol in this situation. If instead you change your setup for LPG, economy and performance figures will tell a very different story. The other point I'd like to make is LPG will be around for the same length of time as Petrol, and is likely to always be cheaper! Plus LPG produces less emmisions and is therefore given exemptions to restrictions on certain laws to govern emmisions released into the environment. The point above about oil and LPG causing it to go acidic is a crucial point, and some oils don't even tolerate this well and will breakdown VERY quickly. regular maintenance with special attention to oil and ignition system is crucial to a good LPG powered vehicle. I don't think I could ever drive a petrol powered car, simply on the basis of cost! that's my 2c
__________________
PROJECT - '77 XC Falcon 351C - Click Here DAILY - '05 Ford Territory BIKE - '12 Suzuki GS 500 |
||
30-08-2005, 01:16 PM | #15 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
Quote:
http://www.caltex.com.au/products_oil_detail.asp?id=316 Plus don't forget the higher octane rating for LPG, making it able to utilise higher compression and higher boost without knock. That's a great thing in a performance orientated engine. I'm still of the opinion that LPG is going to become the next big thing in Australia, until we all move to hydrogen fuel cell cars...
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
|||
30-08-2005, 01:24 PM | #16 | |||
Moderator
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Adelaide SA
Posts: 5,584
|
Quote:
__________________
1965 XP Falcon Deluxe Sedan 1978 XC Falcon Wagon Rallypack 2003 BA Fairlane G220 Windsor Powah!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m7hT9dxD2hM |
|||
30-08-2005, 02:17 PM | #17 | ||||
X-Series Club Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 1,952
|
Quote:
I stated that changing your setup to suit LPG is necessary to achieve realistically comparable performance and economy figures, if I was to elaborate I would say what you said.... plus a recurved dizzy or aftermarket ECU. The only thing I don't agree on is LPG becoming big in Australia. It won't happen because so many people believe the myths that surround the fuel. Quote:
A petrol powered car simply can't compete with a well setup LPG car with todays prices!!! :voldar02:
__________________
PROJECT - '77 XC Falcon 351C - Click Here DAILY - '05 Ford Territory BIKE - '12 Suzuki GS 500 |
||||
30-08-2005, 02:32 PM | #18 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Canberra
Posts: 13,427
|
Quote:
|
|||
30-08-2005, 03:02 PM | #19 | |||
X-Series Club Moderator
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne, VIC
Posts: 1,952
|
Quote:
The point i'm making here is that when setup right, a full size V8 sedan would have to be compared to a small to medium sized basic vehicle to return the similar cost effectiveness. NO, it's no scientific conclusion Red, but it's damned hard to argue with!!! I genuinely believe I can achieve that same fuel economy and be making upwards of 180rwkw too :
__________________
PROJECT - '77 XC Falcon 351C - Click Here DAILY - '05 Ford Territory BIKE - '12 Suzuki GS 500 |
|||
30-08-2005, 08:18 PM | #20 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
|
Having had two almost identical cars in the household, namely
1. 2004 BA XT (petrol) (July build) 2. 2004 BA Xt (E-Gas) (Oct Build) Both were 'Sales Reps' Cars covering 500 - 700kms per week, 50/50 Highway/City Driving. A) E-Gas obviously cheaper to run, even considering (slightly) higher maint. costs. B) At Highway speeds and overtaking, both cars performed almost identically. C) At city speeds E-Gas was noticebly slower of the mark and engine not as willing. D) E-Gas engine 'rougher' at upper end of Rev Scale. E) Noticeable idle roughness in E-Gas when A/C on. F) Time taken to fill up with gas (about twice the time of petrol) G) Lack of boot space with rear wheel mounted in Boot for E-Gas!!! As a driver who (Luckily!) does not pay for petrol I would choose the petrol version everyday. If I was paying for fuel in a private car....... different story!! Have Subaru XT now as work car which only takes Pulp.......!!!!
__________________
Work Car : 2006 XR8 Her Car : 2007 VE SSV Project Car : 1996 EFII Fairmont V8 - No Mods Yet.........!!!!! |
||
09-09-2005, 04:23 PM | #21 | ||
Starter Motor
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 11
|
Wifes BA XT EGAS, after 2 weeks of back & fro to dealer with numerous problems, has finally bit the dust.
8 months old 47500kms, serviced at log book intervals, and requires complete rebuild / new engine. Ford denies there is any inherent problems with the system .......her fleet controller has 2 cars already with new engines and 3 more "playing" up, all E-Gas. Interesting....
__________________
Work Car : 2006 XR8 Her Car : 2007 VE SSV Project Car : 1996 EFII Fairmont V8 - No Mods Yet.........!!!!! |
||
30-08-2005, 09:37 PM | #22 | |||
proud xd owner
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: penriff (penrith), sydney
Posts: 973
|
Quote:
as i have said in other threads i am a LPG man and as soon as i can afford a gas covertion i will. Even though my own car doesnt have one my dad's, and bro's is on it and i have drivin them in both gas and petrol and there is minimal difference in performance but a hell of a difference at the gas station. also if you havnt realised petrol has went up 30 to 40% in recent years but gas has went up 10% mabey but the fuel hasnt changed. wots this tell you, well it tells you that even if gas went up another 20 to 30% you are still in compared to fuel not that bad off. atm basicly gas is way cheaper and will contiune to be cheaper even if the price goes up 20 or 30 % and petrol stays the same which buy the way is very unlikely. At the end of the day you can either be a sucker (petrol consumer) or a winner (LPG consumer) and all i can do is inform ppl. As the saying goes you can lead a horse to water but you carnt make it drink
__________________
Falcon-Tickford-FPV car club of nsw My XD's progress http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=20847 |
|||
30-08-2005, 04:32 PM | #23 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 14,654
|
Quote:
Can i ask a favour?! is it remotely possible you can base at least some of your opinions or arguments around PERSONAL FIRST HAND EXPERIENCE occasionally?? please?! The "Cut n paste" and "mag quote" stuff is interesting but you didnt experience this stuff yourself, someone else might have but it hardly helps to give solid basis for a position when you take third hand info and recite it like you experienced it yourself. Give us some meat with our vegies mate!!! :
__________________
335 S/C GT: The new KING of Australian made performance cars.. |
|||
30-08-2005, 04:39 PM | #24 | |||
LPG > You
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Posts: 4,277
|
Quote:
__________________
LPG Lovers Association President & Member #1. : |
|||
30-08-2005, 01:16 PM | #25 | ||
Guest
Posts: n/a
|
I use LPG...... on LPG 20 bucks for 2 days..... on petrol 60 bucks for 2 days
|
||
30-08-2005, 01:25 PM | #26 | ||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
|
how many people out there are running aftermarket ECU's and thus are getting perfect AFR's on Petrol? not many, therefore they're getting $hitful AFR's and the theoretical 'difference' doens't apply.
LPG consumption is closer then 20% due to the AFR's being far closer then that of a factory ULP car. sure, if you have an aftermarket ECU then your petrol consumption will be better, but your LPG performance will be better too (ignition curves)
__________________
FALCN6 - Turbo, Air Bag Suspension - Hibernating EL GT - Supercharged NASCAR - 83 Thunderbird , Bagged DAILY - BA Fairlane Ghia, Boss 260 Turbo OFFROADER - Ford Explorer |
||
30-08-2005, 02:24 PM | #27 | ||
likes falcon's
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 6,091
|
as a student on virtually no income gas is the answer for me
__________________
www.carhubsales.com.au |
||
30-08-2005, 02:24 PM | #28 | ||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 195
|
RED EL, I don't understand what you're trying to criticise.
My so-called "scientific claims" are baed on primary school mathematics: 65l x $1.20 = $78 65l x $0.40 = $26 I'm not pulling crap out about reduced air flow, blah, blah. Yes, the car does use gas more than petrol, I'm not disputing that. But at 1/3 the cost of petrol...even a primary school kid can see the difference |
||
30-08-2005, 02:31 PM | #29 | |||
Banned
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Not suffering Fools Gladly!!
Posts: 2,864
|
Quote:
Most fleet managers have done a lot more sums than the high school math you quote. |
|||
30-08-2005, 02:48 PM | #30 | |||
Regular Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 195
|
Quote:
If you are arguing against the conversion of an existing car to LPG, there are a number of valid points against doing so. No of cylinders of car, no of kms driven and in what conditions, etc, etc. If in my case, I had the choice between spending money on a car only on petrol, and on the same model car with LPG. It was a no brainer. LPG wins hands down. Do I drive my duel fuel car on petrol because of theoretical efficiency advantages and x kw difference at the wheel? NO |
|||