people still buying holdens/hsv?

RAPID_BA · 22-09-2011, 11:41 PM

We all know fords have delivered a pretty solid product with fg falcon.

Our i6 makes the holden 6 pretty limp wristed. The fpv cars pretty much fo the same with the holden/hsv v8s..

The rest of the car is pretty good too, more than a match for ve.

But everyone i speak to is buying a new holden ve, whether it be a sportswagon ssv or omega. Do people ignore the ford product?

Now that the dust has settled with miami fpv, have we even made a dent on the hsv sales? Are more miami cars being sold than the old 5.4s? Have we dug into hsv sales or just eaten f6 sales? i see a tonn of hsv e3 cars on our roads but ive seen one coyote fpv on the street?

Is the fg cars eating into ve omega sales? Or despite the older shape and feeble motors, are the holdens still enjoying sales pre fg?

Brazen · 22-09-2011, 11:46 PM

Love our VEII SV6 Sportwagon best car I have ever owned. First Holden after a lifetime of Fords. They are a great car as are the FG Falcons, nowadays you cant go wrong with either.

Ordering a Mark II FG Falcon ute when they are officially released for order, so I will have both a Falcon and Commodore. Best of both worlds.

I think XT sales should pick up when EcoLPI comes out. Omega sales might also gain once their dedicated LPG is released next year.

I think FG MkII will be a good chance to give the Falcon a good sales nudge, the styling improvements will make it a bit more fresh. Commodore will probably still outsell Falcon by at least double for the forseeable future.

Ryan · 23-09-2011, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Our i6 makes the holden 6 pretty limp wristed. The fpv cars pretty much fo the same with the holden/hsv v8s..

Honestly who buys a 6 cylinder Commodore or Falcon for their performance (Unless we're talking about the XR6T, or SV6 I guess)? Do people who buy Omega and XTs for example really care about which 6 cylinder is better? The Commodore V6 may not be the most powerful, or greatest performer in the market, but has come along way from the old Buick "rattleboxes" of the 1980s.

In regards to the V8s, Holden has one advantage. They offer a V8 in their Commodore range. If you want a V8 Ford you need to buy an FPV, but not everything is about power, or 1/4 mile times. Some people may simply prefer the way the VE looks.

Both are pretty solid products at the end of the day.

sexyxe · 23-09-2011, 07:44 AM

A lot of my mates (22 - 25) are very surprised when I tell them about the s'charged v8 Ford offers. They just dont know about it.

These blokes earn 75k of essentially disposable income, which Ford would love to get a hold of. When ever the talk of a ute comes up, its always, without fail about a commodore SS, and occasionally my old 3v might get a mention.

People are somewhat raised with a mentality of holden vs ford and stick by that as they are uneducated (nor care) about the subject. Its a hard egg to crack.

DBourne · 23-09-2011, 09:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexyxe

A lot of my mates (22 - 25) are very surprised when I tell them about the s'charged v8 Ford offers. They just dont know about it.

These blokes earn 75k of essentially disposable income, which Ford would love to get a hold of. When ever the talk of a ute comes up, its always, without fail about a commodore SS, and occasionally my old 3v might get a mention.

People are somewhat raised with a mentality of holden vs ford and stick by that as they are uneducated (nor care) about the subject. Its a hard egg to crack.

A fine example of ford's rubbish marketing.

Same is shown with the XR5 turbo. People are still only just learning about them now. They've been around since 2006 and stopped being made in late 2010.

kaniSS · 23-09-2011, 09:22 AM

People buy Holden's for their range IMO. They provide a wide range of vehicles for every taste with quality that gives you no migraines.
Sedans, sports wagons, compact vehicles, suv's, fast sporty HSV's.

I have owned a few cheapish Holden's in my life as well as fords and the only problem I have had with my Holden's where the replacement of a sensor.

I own a 42k 2010 FG XR6T and everyday its a new creak, clunk, interior deterioration or an odd sound. I am just waiting for the day when something major gives up, cause I know it will. I still love the car but it's a headache.

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 23-09-2011, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sexyxe

A lot of my mates (22 - 25) are very surprised when I tell them about the s'charged v8 Ford offers. They just dont know about it.

Spot on! People don't know about it and it's Fords poor marketing of it that has resulted in this. When was the last time you saw a tv ad for the FG XR6T? It's close to 12 months to the day since the Coyote was "unleashed", and I could count on one finger the amount of times I have seen the Moffat/Coyote tv ad.
Holden will have the whole world knowing what they are up to, and this is the case even when the car is a proto that will never see the open road.
Ford have a great product and it's a great shame that "no-one" knows about it (can't argue with the fact that sales support this). Fuel prices have nothing to do with it either because Commodores are still selling aren't they

2011G6E · 23-09-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

We all know fords have delivered a pretty solid product with fg falcon.

Our i6 makes the holden 6 pretty limp wristed. The fpv cars pretty much fo the same with the holden/hsv v8s..

I often wonder if people who say this have ever driven a new Holden six cylinder...? Even the standard "small" motor has an inordinate amount of get up and go...to the point where a salesman said to us that he makes a point of avoiding if he can telling people (those vanishingly small few who actually ask nowadays how "big" it is beyond "is it a six cylinder?"...cubic capacity hardly comes into it now with most buyers) what capacity the engine is so they don't have a pre-concieved notion of it being "too small", rather letting them test drive it first and then reveal it.
I've driven quite a few...rentals they have got out here for us at work, test drives of both the "small" and "large" V6 at dealerships...and found them all to be a pleasant, spirited engine that puts out plenty of grunt. I'll admit I've always had a soft spot for straigth sixes, but I'm not about to ignore the plus's of any strong engine just because it is a V6 or has the "wrong badge" on it...
the Ford I6 is a great engine...more than adequately powerful, very efficient for it's size and the weight of car it has to lug around...but it could be a bit smoother. However, harshness when being revved is something I've put up with since my first Ford six, a worked 4.1 iron-head X-flow in a TE Cortina, and the iron-head X-flow in the XC-Update Fairmont GXL we owned. It's the nature of the beast, and something they surprisingly haven't engineered out yet to make a good motor a truly great motor.

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 10:56 AM

Since Coyote...

What are the sales of F6/GT/GS Miami

against F6/GT/GS 5.4

What about HSV for the same periods..

I think the Miami hasnt lifted any sales from the 5.4 days and the HSV are still selling the same..

Maybe just a slight shift from F6 to Miami

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 10:58 AM

Surely anyone who spends a certain amount on a car wants the best product in that category..

The FG XT is better than the VE omega.. But Id bet the Omega outsells it easily. How?? Would you go and pay the $32k and get a feeble little 3.0 litre V6 in the VE when the FG gets the full might of the I6 4.0 at similar fuel economy? rest of the car ford is better as well.

2011G6E · 23-09-2011, 11:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_BA

Surely anyone who spends a certain amount on a car wants the best product in that category..

The FG XT is better than the VE omega.. But Id bet the Omega outsells it easily. How?? Would you go and pay the $32k and get a feeble little 3.0 litre V6 in the VE when the FG gets the full might of the I6 4.0 at similar fuel economy? rest of the car ford is better as well.

Because of the economy. Facing facts, the 3 liter V6 isn't "feeble"...as I said, ever driven one?...and it gets astounding economy when driven the way the majority of buyers drive it. If you are after a romping stomping rip snorter and prefer to drive with your foot buried in the floor, people will buy a V8. The greater number of drivers don't care about cubic capacity, they want a pleasant car to drive that gets good economy.

Since the dawn of EFI in Australian cars, the game changed...no longer did "size equal might"...and a smaller engine, well designed, can easily see of a much larger engine especially when it comes to what matters to buyers...and today, that isn't brute horsepower or 0-100kph times.
When we were buying, it was honestly a flip of the coin as to whether we drive home a Falcon or an SV6 Commodore...they were both outstanding cars for the money, with some faults, but we were in a position where the trade-in deal was more importnat to us. We knew the Commodore could get potentially better fuel economy (and we considered that as well) but Ford gave us an amazing trade in offer, so we took home th G6E.

Looking at the Commodore and the Falcon as a "non-brand-dedicated" consumer, as buyers today increasingly are, they are both good cars with thier own pluses and minuses.

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Because of the economy. Facing facts, the 3 liter V6 isn't "feeble"...as I said, ever driven one?...and it gets astounding economy when driven the way the majority of buyers drive it. If you are after a romping stomping rip snorter and prefer to drive with your foot buried in the floor, people will buy a V8. The greater number of drivers don't care about cubic capacity, they want a pleasant car to drive that gets good economy.

Since the dawn of EFI in Australian cars, the game changed...no longer did "size equal might"...and a smaller engine, well designed, can easily see of a much larger engine especially when it comes to what matters to buyers...and today, that isn't brute horsepower or 0-100kph times.
When we were buying, it was honestly a flip of the coin as to whether we drive home a Falcon or an SV6 Commodore...they were both outstanding cars for the money, with some faults, but we were in a position where the trade-in deal was more importnat to us. We knew the Commodore could get potentially better fuel economy (and we considered that as well) but Ford gave us an amazing trade in offer, so we took home th G6E.

Looking at the Commodore and the Falcon as a "non-brand-dedicated" consumer, as buyers today increasingly are, they are both good cars with thier own pluses and minuses.

have you compared the 3.0L and even 3.6L holden VE against the ford I6 4.0?? Its feeble in that company, costs the same too.

Anyone who drives the ford i6 against the Holden 3.0 or 3.6 just cant ignore the torque and power of the I6. For the same money I stress.

Same goes for the FPV offering, drive them back to back against the HSV and its another no brainer. The Miami/Turbo i6 murders the HSV engine and yet its ignored by the public?

**TUF_302** · 23-09-2011, 11:08 AM

Another wonderful Hulk BA thread, wonder how long till it gets closed

XR Martin · 23-09-2011, 11:21 AM

HSVs are a more complete car than the FPVs....
With FPV youve got a great motor in a average chassis. HSV have got a good motor in a great chassis.

**Polyal** · 23-09-2011, 11:32 AM

Whats wrong with the chassis? Just tyre width?

It took VE for GMH to catch up, they spent the money (perhaps more of it on marketing) and they got what they deserved.

The better product is not always the better seller.

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 23-09-2011, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

The better product is not always the better seller.

Spot on! We live in a country that voted in a dead set drip of a prime minister at the last election, so in my opinion, I could not care less what the majority decide is "better" or not.

Stazza_Brendan · 23-09-2011, 11:42 AM

Whats wrong with chassis?
How about those troublesome diff bushes

**DJM83** · 23-09-2011, 11:42 AM

When are you gonna join the HSV owners group HULK?
IMO it's the marketing or lack there of and as posted before the HSV is a more complete car FPV have a brilliant motor that's it.

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DJM83

When are you gonna join the HSV owners group HULK?
.

IF a HSV 6.2 litre popped up with an attractive price tag, id grab one, but not for the same money as a Coyote Supercharged GT.. No chance.

**Polyal** · 23-09-2011, 11:47 AM

HSV have also stuck to their guns alot longer than Ford/Fte/FPV..they have built what you might call a dynasty and they creates its own roll on effect.

I think HSV's look like back side, but, what they have done is create their own look and culture for the brand. We bag them for importing their engines for all these years but the reality is that it free's up funds for important things like unique styling, that rear end etc etc.

Bag the gimmicks all you want, but they sell cars. They have done well with what they have to move it away from looking like a SS. This gives some perception of value over a Holden V8.

Ford/FPV engineer great cars, but its the over all package and finer detail thats missing. But Im pretty sure most of that will be rectified come the "FG2 FPV".

edit: as for Holden, well Ford might be content with profitability (which is responsible) but being number 1 also IMO gives you the power of attracting people to a winning brand, so your product mightnt be technically as good but its perceived to be and if the price is right then your home.

davenl5l · 23-09-2011, 12:55 PM

holden has better advertising and have brainwashed people into thinking they are australian owned and therefore the only car made in aus.(sad but true)

Chopped · 23-09-2011, 01:23 PM

Sourced from inside this forum (wheels comparo)>

0-100 = SV6 6.46 / XR6 6.76

400m = SV6 14.62 / XR6 14.87

Despite what many on AFF think, The Falcon 6 is not the messiah, it's a very naughty engine (when fitted with a turbo!!!).

HSVs look very different to SS commodores, this makes them appear to be more "exclusive" or "special".

Both FPV and HSV are Aussie products that can challenge international brands that are far more expensive, we should be proud of both.

Wretched · 23-09-2011, 01:10 PM

In terms of the Ford vs Holden battle (if it is still going)
Ford/FPV have a good engine....that is all.
The chassis cannot handle the power, simple.

As for why people by Holden/HSV over Ford/FPV.
They deem it to be the better product at the time of purchase. Same goes for the people who buy FPV/Ford products over Holden/HSV.
You may question they're judgement but everyone has their own preferences.

Really a pointless thread.

xisled · 23-09-2011, 01:40 PM

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

**Polyal** · 23-09-2011, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

1. The new XT, FG2 is a great looking car

2. I think you will find even Holden people struggle to accept the E3

3. I guess we are all entitled to our opinion.

It would be interesting, if anyone could be bothered, to put Holden vs Ford Pics next to each other. At the end of the day beauty is in the eye of the beholder but the Fords are much more classier.

Ryan · 23-09-2011, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Polyal

2. I think you will find even Holden people struggle to accept the E3
.

I'm actually kind of mixed with them. When they were first released I didn't know what to think, but seeing one in the flesh offers a fresh perspective IMO. I would get a Clubport/R8, or GTS in black, but that's really the only colour I would get an E3 in. Still prefer the E1s though.

**Polyal** · 23-09-2011, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ryan

I'm actually kind of mixed with them. When they were first released I didn't know what to think, but seeing one in the flesh offers a fresh perspective IMO. I would get a Clubport/R8, or GTS in black, but that's really the only colour I would get an E3 in. Still prefer the E1s though.

I like the tail lights, but mainly because they are different. The lower section of the rear and the front end is just a mess. E1 kills them for sure.

RAPID_BA · 23-09-2011, 02:22 PM

HSV has added every p-plater go fast stick on mod possible, day time lights, nostril air scoops, flared guards, massive front air dam.

Park it next to a FPV which is considerably more subtle, you would swear the HSV is quicker by the look of it.. But its the Sheep in wolfs clothes where the FPV is the wolf in sheeps clothing.

The SV6 is not bad for a family man sort of a car, a pretend SS, but no torque under about 5000rpm. In 95% of driving the I6 will kick the SV6 into touch, the other 5% above 5500rpm its about even.

I would think even a EF I6 with its 357nm and 157kw would give the current crop of VE commodore 3.0L the hurry up.

StrikeTwiceXR6 · 23-09-2011, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xisled

IMO the FG is an ugly car, It looks like ford have gone half way between a European Car and an Aussie car. It looks like they could not decide which way to go, so they stopped in the middle. If you have a look at a brand new HSV they look 10 times better than any thing Ford can offer.

Also with the Ford range at the moment, if you buy a base model XT, it looks similar to a FPV GT, but with Holden the Omega looks nothing like a R8.

(1) The VE looks like a bulldozer front on with the pumped guards.
(2) HSV's styling consists of copying the latest BMW front quarter panel flutes, and Audi with the "angel eyes" (Nothing European there?), which makes the latest HSV a dogs breakfast when it comes to exterior styling.
(3) And the HSV ute rear end!

Each to their own.

BLUEYBA · 23-09-2011, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StrikeTwiceXR6

(1) The VE looks like a bulldozer front on with the pumped guards.
(2) HSV's styling consists of copying the latest BMW front quarter panel flutes, and Audi with the "angel eyes" (Nothing European there?), which makes the latest HSV a dogs breakfast when it comes to exterior styling.
(3) And the HSV ute rear end!

Each to their own.

Have to agree. With point 2 its like they weren't sure which way to go so they decided to mix and it hasn't worked (my opinion)
Definitely agree with the rear of the ute. yuk