Holden, Ford at bottom of car survey

[DanielXR8]

Or you can say, Holden and Ford put spin on dire survey results and say secret poll they do is a better result. So why don't they release the better results? Why keep something that is suppose to be better secret, unless....umm next question...




HOLDEN and Ford have been ranked at the bottom of a national survey of car buyer satisfaction.
The first Australian car survey, by the JD Power Group, used an international standard questionnaire to poll thousands of buyers with cars up to three years old.

Owners were asked to mark their cars on factors including quality, design, performance and reliability, The Weekend Australian reports.

Japanese importers Mazda, Honda and Toyota led the list of makes, with Holden and Ford coming in ninth and tenth, behind Kia and Hyundai.

Buyers marked them down on quality, reliability and service.

Holden and Ford played down the results of the survey, saying they relied on a secret poll of the whole industry which used a larger sample size.

"We have our own detailed surveys that are much more comprehensive and we use them to continually improve what we do," Holden spokesman John Lindsay told the newspaper.

"We get lots of varied feedback; when you sell thousands of cars some people will have issues.

This is about 3000 buyers out of one million. A survey of this size doesn't allow us to make judgments."

The JD Power survey focuses on private buyers rather than fleets and is weighted to reflect the sales of each model.

[RSgerry]

continuing to hide behind spin and denial will not improve things for Ford and Holden. accepting that buyers of other brands are more satisfied with their cars is the first step, finding out why their own buyers are not happy is the next, and then, the big one, DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

I am one of the many people on here who have left Ford for greener pastures. We now have a Mazda 3 as our main car and it is streets ahead of our previous Falcon in terms of build quality and finish.

Finally, to be beaten by Kia and Hyundai is not something to be proud of.

[cycle myth]

Yes - it would be good to see Ford and Holden release this other survey result..

The TGW result may not make them feel any happier - and might be one of the reasons (other than it being secret) that it won't be released.

The Koreans have made big gains in quality and are embarrassing many.

[Nikked]

LOL at KIA and Hyundai beating ford and holden, they must of asked idiots...KIA's and Hyundai are absolute rubbish, and are no way better in any area then a Ford or Holden...

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Nikked

LOL at KIA and Hyundai beating ford and holden, they must of asked idiots...KIA's and Hyundai are absolute rubbish, and are no way better in any area then a Ford or Holden...

Its JD Power. About as believable as a psychiatric patient who's convinced they're living in 1542.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its JD Power. About as believable as a psychiatric patient who's convinced they're living in 1542.

Not as bas as the crap that comes out of Monash.... Now that is just absolute trollop on almost every level. But they tell governments what they want to hear so they can get the next commission on the next multi million dollar studies... Bastids have turned it into a niche industry for themselves.

[Homer1]

Originally Posted by Steffo

Its JD Power. About as believable as a psychiatric patient who's convinced they're living in 1542.

Only when it doesn't go hand in hand with you point of view right? : Maybe look up the word "denial".

[Steffo]

Originally Posted by Homer1

Only when it doesn't go hand in hand with you point of view right? : Maybe look up the word "denial".

No mate. I know you're insanely in-love with Jap crap and will attack anyone who disagrees. You can retreat into your dark corner and stroke your JD Power result booklet and believe it as the word of God.

The JD Power surveys and their results clash with the results of almost every other, and with the happenings in real life. Its almost as if JD stands for Japanese Domestic or something.

Also as should be noted, with JD Power, often a bad experience with a salesmen or something along those lines will change the score of a car. Very factual statistics there... :

[GT0132]

I don't agree with the results of that survey at except for service...Ford service is appaling at best.

Out of the 7 Falcons I've owned apart from the cost of regular servicing and parts I've only spent money on mechanical repairs on the replacement of one diff (on the XC) one reco trans (on the XD) ...alternator (EB), 2 Brake master cylinders (XA and EB). Not too bad over 27 years.

Alright so build quality ain't perfect but then they don't have a BMW price tag do they?

The BMW equivalent to a Fairmont Ghia 3V would the the 5 series 540iL which costs twice as much as the Ghia and 4 x the parts price if it needs major work. so on value for $ the Ford is a much better proposition..The 5 series would depreciate at a quicker rate too.

[Dave_au]

Originally Posted by Steffo

with JD Power, often a bad experience with a salesmen or something along those lines will change the score of a car. Very factual statistics there... :

But a bad experience with a salesman "or something along those lines" is enough to change a repeat customer to a brand XYZ customer.

There's no point living in denial and building a wall against these results amd discounting them. Ford and Holden both need to take a long hard look at the process in how J.D. Power came to these results, why they received the ranking that they did receive, and how these results can be improved in future surveys.

I bet the bottom dollar that it came down to after sales service and warranty issues.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by Nikked

LOL at KIA and Hyundai beating ford and holden, they must of asked idiots...KIA's and Hyundai are absolute rubbish, and are no way better in any area then a Ford or Holden...

Driven one lately...? I sometimes end up with a low rent hire car like a Getz and I tell you what, for 13k or whatever they go for on special they are not too bad. Shocks have zero damping but the rest isn't too diabolical and they cover them with a better warranty than we get.

[mik]

i don`t trust polls to much , its like shaking hands with a politician in my book..... after woods you check see you still have your valueables

[cycle myth]

I've seen results of these surveys of real customers... the Koreans are making a better case in quality.... we have some work to do locally.

[Director]

The company I work for was "polled" by Choice magazine and it was a very poor result. We were emphatically told by management that the results were incorrect and that their "own customer surveys" showed a very high customer satisfaction rating.
Believe who you want, but I dont believe either of them, one has to sell magazines and the other has to protect the product

[Lightning Strike GT]

I got one of these AG Neilson Quality surveys when my BF was 12 mths old
The car was good but the local FORD dealer I took it for a warranty job totally buggered the car - did not put it back together correctly , missing screws and wires not tucked away correctly.
Gave the dealership an absolute schlacking and FORD gave me a free complimentery service at the same dealership : as a soother
Car is A1 local dealership is at the bottom of my food chain

[Electric]

If they include customers rating of Ford service its little wonder they came last.

[cupic]

Nothing new there its been obvious for yrs

Ford got gr8 design ideas as noted by the worldwide head of ford as he wants a GSE6T

But the build quality will never match or close to whats enjoyed by overseas car builders

[Pedro]

I have an F6 and my wife has a Mazda SP23.
The Ford is so far behind the Mazda in build quality and service ... there's just no comparison. It's as though the two manufacturers and their dealers are from two different planets.

[AusM]

Originally Posted by Pedro

I have an F6 and my wife has a Mazda SP23. The Ford is so far behind the Mazda in build quality and service ... there's just no comparison. It's as though the two manufacturers and their dealers are from two different planets.

Which is even stranger when you consider Ford owns a controlling majority share of Mazda at around 30%... Japanese build quality still rates high on the world scale with a recent US study putting Ford at around 13th, GMC at 28th, with the top 9 all being imported brands. "Thirty-four of 39 models on the "most reliable" list are Asian."

But Ford (US) is on the improve: "Of domestic models rated, 93 percent of Ford, 49 percent of GM and 67 percent of Chrysler models had average or better predicted reliability."

[Bent8]

Boohoo...as long as Ford continue to offer 400hp+ muscle cars for around $40k, I'll keep buying their cars...

I'm sure they have an impact on car sales but let's face it, you're average Falcon will never have the build quality of a Merc or even a Toyota, but I think Ford should really lift their game in after sales service.

[Deadman]

Originally Posted by Nikked

LOL at KIA and Hyundai beating ford and holden, they must of asked idiots...KIA's and Hyundai are absolute rubbish, and are no way better in any area then a Ford or Holden...

That comment speaks volumes about how your knowledge must be far superior to these "idiots" they asked...

Hyundai are absolute rubbish and are no way better in any area than a Ford or Holden huh? Ok...

Back to the results of the survey - I'm not surprised. Out of all the cars I've owned (Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Nissan and Ford), the Ford has by far been the worse. It was also the newest with the lowest kms, but still had way more issues, faults and dramas than all the other three put together.

Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons I'm not looking at the FG, I don't think I'll buy another Ford again. I know one experience is never something to go by, but when a car costs you so much over such a short period of time, it's hard to get over...

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by Deadman

That comment speaks volumes about how your knowledge must be far superior to these "idiots" they asked...

Hyundai are absolute rubbish and are no way better in any area than a Ford or Holden huh? Ok...

Back to the results of the survey - I'm not surprised. Out of all the cars I've owned (Mitsubishi, Hyundai, Nissan and Ford), the Ford has by far been the worse. It was also the newest with the lowest kms, but still had way more issues, faults and dramas than all the other three put together.

Unfortunately, this is one of the reasons I'm not looking at the FG, I don't think I'll buy another Ford again. I know one experience is never something to go by, but when a car costs you so much over such a short period of time, it's hard to get over...

Well I wont carry on, but the interior in both brands has got carpet thats a joke, plastics that are boring and unimaginitive. I may have been a bit extream...I know that makes such as Mazda are great, and mitsubishi (untill you take one apart...) there is areas that ford can improve on, but they are coming close IMO. they just need to improve dealership service!

[Paull]

I can only go on the experience that I have with my Kia Sorento. Having had it for 2 years now, it has had no faults, issues or concerns. It has only been back to the dealer for the standard 15000 K services (plus the initial 1000 K service). The car has good build quality (as compared to the BA series Falcon) and I would buy another one.

A friend also bought a new Adventura about 1 year before me. His car has been back to the dealer 19 times for ongoing warranty issues (still not resolved). Sorry, but I strongly believe that Aus cars are built to a price, not to a quality level.

[jimmy_c]

Originally Posted by Paull

A friend also bought a new Adventura about 1 year before me. His car has been back to the dealer 19 times for ongoing warranty issues (still not resolved). Sorry, but I strongly believe that Aus cars are built to a price, not to a quality level.

Getting away from the one eyed ford and holden fans. Its not so much the cars that are a let down. It is dealing with the clowns who sell and service them.

Apart from the few good ones. They suck !! Full stop. If they want to know why people are not buying ford and holdens. then look no further than the dealers.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by jimmy_c

Getting away from the one eyed ford and holden fans. Its not so much the cars that are a let down. It is dealing with the clowns who sell and service them.

Apart from the few good ones. They suck !! Full stop. If they want to know why people are not buying ford and holdens. then look no further than the dealers.

Very much true!

I think the Ford Falcon is the best built vehicle around! Want to know why?

How many vehicles can survive so long without being serviced?

That is the cold hard fact. I have a few mates who were apprentices in Ford dealerships and they DON'T service their vehicles. Most of the time you will book in for your $300 service and it will sit in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices. On top of that they might make up a few problems and charge you for that and book up 2 hours to change the spark plugs which of course they don't do.

The difference over at the Japanese dealerships are stark. I have a mate who is an apprentice at a Toyota dealership and while the vehicles are not built any better the difference is that they replace EVERYTHING (often expensively). Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

If you service your Ford yourself or get it done by an independant mechanic then it will last forever. My parents have an XE with 800,000+ kays still original engine and transmission and this thing has done towing all over Australia.

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon) and these things spend their lives at the limit of mechanical tolerances and despite my best efforts my mrs still puts her foot down every morning while the cars are cold and these things don't miss a beat. The oil in my XE is IMMACULATE, my mate has a 96 Daihatsu and despite regular oil changes his oil is always black.

I don't look through rose coloured glasses I am very pedantic with regard to quality.
I will never buy a Sony Playstation because I bought one once and it didn't work so I took it straight back to the shop and have been an XBOX person since. The same for motorbikes I only buy Suzukis because they are the most reliable.

I guarantee you any Ford problems are human related and can be fixed by cleaning up the dealer network.

[fmc351]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon)

Nah, that would be EA.


We need to build a big trebuchet and launch them into the sun.

[DirtyHarry]

Sleekism, you really do come up with a lot of crap.

Originally Posted by sleekism

That is the cold hard fact. I have a few mates who were apprentices in Ford dealerships and they DON'T service their vehicles. Most of the time you will book in for your $300 service and it will sit in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices. On top of that they might make up a few problems and charge you for that and book up 2 hours to change the spark plugs which of course they don't do.

Yeah riiiiight....We all know that most Ford dealers aren't real good, but as for "most" cars "sitting in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices", geesh, give us a break.

Originally Posted by sleekism

Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

Not even worth commenting on.

Originally Posted by sleekism

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon)

Coming from a taxi industry perspective, I can tell you that the AUs are generally regarded in the industry as one of the best built Falcons, be they Series I, II, or III.

Originally Posted by sleekism

The same for motorbikes I only buy Suzukis because they are the most reliable.

ROFLMAO

But the quotable quotes have to be this pair:

Originally Posted by sleekism

I don't look through rose coloured glasses

and

Originally Posted by sleekism

I guarantee you any Ford problems are human related and can be fixed by cleaning up the dealer network.

[RATT]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Very much true!

I think the Ford Falcon is the best built vehicle around! Want to know why?

How many vehicles can survive so long without being serviced?

That is the cold hard fact. I have a few mates who were apprentices in Ford dealerships and they DON'T service their vehicles. Most of the time you will book in for your $300 service and it will sit in the workshop all day only occasionally taken out for a few burnouts by the apprentices. On top of that they might make up a few problems and charge you for that and book up 2 hours to change the spark plugs which of course they don't do.

The difference over at the Japanese dealerships are stark. I have a mate who is an apprentice at a Toyota dealership and while the vehicles are not built any better the difference is that they replace EVERYTHING (often expensively). Toyotas reputation is that after 3 years of owning your Corolla and with expensive regular servicing they have practically replaced every component in your car.

If you service your Ford yourself or get it done by an independant mechanic then it will last forever. My parents have an XE with 800,000+ kays still original engine and transmission and this thing has done towing all over Australia.

I have an XE and an AU1 (supposedly the worst built Falcon) and these things spend their lives at the limit of mechanical tolerances and despite my best efforts my mrs still puts her foot down every morning while the cars are cold and these things don't miss a beat. The oil in my XE is IMMACULATE, my mate has a 96 Daihatsu and despite regular oil changes his oil is always black.

I guarantee you any Ford problems are human related and can be fixed by cleaning up the dealer network.

Can't believe I missed this post!

I usually try not to bite, but that is the biggest load of hogwash I have ever read on this forum re cars sitting around not being serviced! :

Let me invite you to Peter Warren Smithfield and the soon to be opened Phil McCarroll Ford Narellan NSW where you can observe, through a large window most of the workshop. You can watch mechanics/apprentices working on a variety of Falcons, Focus, Territory etc. But we successfull hid the burnout pad out the back......

What did the XE really need done for a service? Really, tell us! No computer, no abs, probably no a/c, airbags, DSC etc. Need I go on?

Take this garbage elsewhere please.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by RATT

Can't believe I missed this post!

I usually try not to bite, but that is the biggest load of hogwash I have ever read on this forum re cars sitting around not being serviced! :

Let me invite you to Peter Warren Smithfield and the soon to be opened Phil McCarroll Ford Narellan NSW where you can observe, through a large window most of the workshop. You can watch mechanics/apprentices working on a variety of Falcons, Focus, Territory etc. But we successfull hid the burnout pad out the back......

What did the XE really need done for a service? Really, tell us! No computer, no abs, probably no a/c, airbags, DSC etc. Need I go on?

Take this garbage elsewhere please.

I invite you to inspect Grant Macaroll Ford Armidale, Mighty River Ford Grafton or Mike Blewitt Ford Coffs Harbour where me and my family have been burnt. The sales departments are good but the service departments are shocking.

BTW I was talking about the AU being serviced and at the very least from a $300 service I would expect the oil to be changed (which it wasn't), the light bulbs that were booked up to be replaced actually replaced and picking up my car in the afternoon I don't expect to be down a quarter of a tank, have dirty feet mark everywhere and for my car not to smell like burnt tyres.

There are many, many, many, many stories like mine so don't either saying I'm full of it.

[DanielXR8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

I invite you to inspect Grant Macaroll Ford Armidale, Mighty River Ford Grafton or Mike Blewitt Ford Coffs Harbour where me and my family have been burnt. The sales departments are good but the service departments are shocking.

BTW I was talking about the AU being serviced and at the very least from a $300 service I would expect the oil to be changed (which it wasn't), the light bulbs that were booked up to be replaced actually replaced and picking up my car in the afternoon I don't expect to be down a quarter of a tank, have dirty feet mark everywhere and for my car not to smell like burnt tyres.

There are many, many, many, many stories like mine so don't either saying I'm full of it.

I'll add my name for Grant McCarroll. The Dealer Principal single handly convinced me to never buy a Ford again, after a lifetime of buying them.

Dan