Holwoos bombed

[Bossxr8]

Just read the Wheels news article about a possible rebadged Torana based on GM's new compact RWD car, and noticed they talk about Holdens failure with its rebadged Daewoos and i'll take a quote from it-

In essence, Holdens strategy to supplement or replace its European sourced models with cut price Koreans has backfired. The el-cheapo Barina is being slaughtered by Toyota's premium priced Yaris, and even the Suzuki Swift, while Viva sales have fallen 35% in 07. Astra numbers have virtually halved. But crucially, its Epicas tragic 10th place performance in the booming mid size segment that is worrying Holden the most. Even BMW's expensive 3 series ands the Lexus IS250 have outsold Holdens rebadged Daewoo so far in 07.

Ouch.


Thats what happens why you try to sell cheap Korean garbage to the masses. Maybe Holden were wrong in assuming the general car buying public are morons.

[theunfairadvant]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Just read the Wheels news article about a possible rebadged Torana based on GM's new compact RWD car, and noticed they talk about Holdens failure with its rebadged Daewoos and i'll take a quote from it-

In essence, Holdens strategy to supplement or replace its European sourced models with cut price Koreans has backfired. The el-cheapo Barina is being slaughtered by Toyota's premium priced Yaris, and even the Suzuki Swift, while Viva sales have fallen 35% in 07. Astra numbers have virtually halved. But crucially, its Epicas tragic 10th place performance in the booming mid size segment that is worrying Holden the most. Even BMW's expensive 3 series ands the Lexus IS250 have outsold Holdens rebadged Daewoo so far in 07.

Ouch.


Thats what happens why you try to sell cheap Korean garbage to the masses. Maybe Holden were wrong in assuming the general car buying public are morons.

They should rebadged the Porsche, Ferrari & BMW as Holden,
this way they will win more sales.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by theunfairadvant

They should rebadged the Porsche, Ferrari & BMW as Holden,
this way they will win more sales.

I think people buy Porsche, Ferrari and BMW because of the badge (as well as other things)... but the badge alone has alot of buying power...

[pauljh74]

With Corolla, Mazda 3 and Focus, that leaves little room for buckets like the Viva. Even the Astra would get squeezed in those circumstances

[WASP]

While I think its better, Fords strategy of using better quality European models isn't going gun blazes either. The problem is consumer perception. With so many people turning to smaller cars they are also turning to the manufactures that they perceive have the better quality product and runs on the board in that area. These manufactures include Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Honda for example. Ford and Holden are generally perceived as a large car company i.e. Falcons, Territory’s and Commodores etc. To the masses their small cars do not lie within the target consumer’s frame of reference (familiar comfort zone). It's the same reason why Toyota and Mitsubishi have had so much trouble penetrating and dominating the large car market here in Australia.

If Ford or Holden what to beat the likes of Toyota and Mazda in this area they either have a work harder in a campaign fashion on the consumer education and quality perceptions of their smaller car range, or alternatively they need to sell smaller cars under a new or different brand that may have a better perception within the market place. At least Ford appears to have invested wisely with brands like Mazda which should be paying off for them now. I’m not so sure I can say the same GM Daewoo. I think Hyundai’s performing much better in that space.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by CDAA

While I think its better, Fords strategy of using better quality European models isn't going gun blazes either. The problem is consumer perception. With so many people turning to smaller cars they are also turning to the manufactures that they perceive have the better quality product and runs on the board in that area. These manufactures include Toyota, Mazda, Mitsubishi, Subaru and Honda for example. Ford and Holden are generally perceived as a large car company i.e. Falcons, Territory’s and Commodores etc. To the masses their small cars do not lie within the target consumer’s frame of reference (familiar comfort zone). It's the same reason why Toyota and Mitsubishi have had so much trouble penetrating and dominating the large car market here in Australia.

I disagree with that point, back in the 80's and 90's the Ford laser was the best selling small car and where a familiar comfort zone along with the best selling large car at the time (falcon). I know the japanese brands have come along way since then, but it shows that ford were not always just a large car company.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

I disagree with that point, back in the 80's and 90's the Ford laser was the best selling small car and where a familiar comfort zone along with the best selling large car at the time (falcon). I know the japanese brands have come along way since then, but it shows that ford were not always just a large car company.

Not to mention the Meteor and Telstar that lead in sales too. Ford owned the market back then.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not to mention the Meteor and Telstar that lead in sales too. Ford owned the market back then.

Remember the Laser was a Mazda 323 the Telstar a Mazda 626 and the Corsair a Nissan Pintara.

Mazda market research has shown that the Mazda 3 buyers are mostly former Laser buyers. People didn't identify with the Focus and always knew the Laser was a rebadged Mazda so they all started buying Mazda 3's.

[GK]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Remember the Laser was a Mazda 323 the Telstar a Mazda 626 and the Corsair a Nissan Pintara.

Mazda market research has shown that the Mazda 3 buyers are mostly former Laser buyers. People didn't identify with the Focus and always knew the Laser was a rebadged Mazda so they all started buying Mazda 3's.

They should have sold the Focus as the Laser. Nissan also took a beating by dropping the Pulsar name for the.... ah.... um...what's it called?

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not to mention the Meteor and Telstar that lead in sales too. Ford owned the market back then.

They were the glory days alright.

GK

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Remember the Laser was a Mazda 323 the Telstar a Mazda 626 and the Corsair a Nissan Pintara.

Mazda market research has shown that the Mazda 3 buyers are mostly former Laser buyers. People didn't identify with the Focus and always knew the Laser was a rebadged Mazda so they all started buying Mazda 3's.

Don't forget the Festiva, first a Mazda 121, then a Kia Avella.

Was it true that Ford wanted the Rio as a replacement for the Laser, but Kia wouldn't give it to Ford?

Kia being Korean. But to be honest I believe that Kia and Hyundai were always above Daewoo in build quality and relaibility.

[Bossxr8]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Remember the Laser was a Mazda 323 the Telstar a Mazda 626 and the Corsair a Nissan Pintara.

Mazda market research has shown that the Mazda 3 buyers are mostly former Laser buyers. People didn't identify with the Focus and always knew the Laser was a rebadged Mazda so they all started buying Mazda 3's.

Also remember that the Focus shares the same platform and engines as the Mazda 3, so whats the difference.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Bossxr8

Not to mention the Meteor and Telstar that lead in sales too. Ford owned the market back then.

Hard to believe that 1 in 4 cars sold in the 1980s were Fords. Two decades of mis-management and poor product strategy have erroded that market dominance to what is 1 cars in 9 sold in 2007 will be Fords. But that no longer surprises me.

FF

[rodderz]

Ford need to do more marketing wise to get people to realise the quality of the European designed cars....they are all up there in quality, but the recognition of it isnt there for a lot of average people.

They really need to pound the image and perception thing into people minds

[RG]

At least Ford have a product that they can do something with and take on the segment leaders with due to the outstanding quality of the Euro Ford products. Holwoo don't so they are pretty much stuffed unless they sell theirs rediculously cheaper then their competition.

[Eaturbo]

If ford shrunk the falcon 25% and sold it as a small size car along side the full size falcon, people would identify it as its recognizable. BMW and Mercedes do this with there line up with the 3,5 and 7 series all looking like larger cars of the smaller series.
Imagine a mid size VE commodore and how well it would sell

[WASP]

The market environment was quite different back then. Consumers had different expectations than they do now. The consumer felt comfortable with the qulaity Ford was producing back then, but their expectations for reliabitly for one thing has changed. Ford aren't strong in this area regardless of if you believe this to be fact or fiction.The lasers where also assembled in Australia in the 80's and early 90's and if I reamember correctly sales dropped when that production line stopped. All the Fords you guys mentioned were commonly known as Mazda's by most people which possibly helped due to Mazda's good reputation.

My wifes and her family are a good example. They all had Ford Lasers & Meteors for years and now they all want Mazda 3's & 6's. I bought her (my wife) a LS Focus Zetec and in her opinion is nice, but just doesn't cut the mustard. She's aeked for to replace it in a few years time with the Mazda.

[TUF_302]

Always knew those crappy woo's would hurt holden!!!

[AUIII XR8 MAN]

Originally Posted by CDAA

The lasers where also assembled in Australia in the 80's and early 90's and if I reamember correctly sales dropped when that production line stopped.

I've got one of those Lasers with the little sticker on the right rear door quater window say, Build with pride by Ford Australia. Great little car. Wonder when the Focus is made in Australia whether the sales figures will go up.

I think the public can see through Holdens little cheap price car game. Lets face there was a reasons why Daewoo went belly up.

[AndyZH]

Remember the Ford Lazer Lynx?!?! Bug eyed looking thing was a rebadged Kia.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by AndyZH

Remember the Ford Lazer Lynx?!?! Bug eyed looking thing was a rebadged Kia.

The Laser Lynx was a 2 Door Laser, made in Japan.

The Festiva was a rebadged Kia.


As for the Built in Australia sticker, I think we may see that come back. Ford, Holden, MMAL and Toyota are starting to feel the pinch of imports. With Ford Australia making the only Australian small car, they will need to get that out to all and sundry. Why shouldn't car companies be proud that they are making a car in Australia?

[Gammaboy]

Originally Posted by Paxton

With Ford Australia making the only Australian small car

I'd hardly call a Falcon a small car....

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

I'd hardly call a Falcon a small car....

.......? He is talking about the Focus being built here in 2010......

[vztrt]

Originally Posted by Gammaboy

I'd hardly call a Falcon a small car....

I think he's talking about when the Focus starts getting built here in 2010.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by vztrt

I think he's talking about when the Focus starts getting built here in 2010.

Originally Posted by XplosiveR6

.......? He is talking about the Focus being built here in 2010......

That I was. :

Mondeo has already proven itself. It hasn't been on sale two months, and is already Australia's best Midsized car, in Diesel form from the (non-biased) NRMA/RACV group. Mondeo is also in the running for Wheels COTY, whereas the Epica isn't. It was eliminated A) Because it doesn't have ESP, and B) Because it is crap compared to the rest of the field.

Edit: I just thought I would add this quote from the Wheels site regarding Mondeo:

Ford Mondeo
A brilliant mid-sizer with first-rate steering, ride and handling.

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by AndyZH

Remember the Ford Lazer Lynx?!?! Bug eyed looking thing was a rebadged Kia.

WTF..those cars are actually pretty damn nice, and handle well through a sorted suspension setup thats great in factory spec.

What annoys me is the supply line, I mean seriously how many times have we heard it! Happened with the Fiesta and Focus initially.

[sleekism]

Originally Posted by Polyal

WTF..those cars are actually pretty damn nice, and handle well through a sorted suspension setup thats great in factory spec.

What annoys me is the supply line, I mean seriously how many times have we heard it! Happened with the Fiesta and Focus initially.

Yeah what the hell is wrong with Ford.

It took them 18months from scratch to create the Mustang and they were expecting to sell around 100,000 a year but were quite able to up production to meet the ONE MILLION SALES in the first year of sale.

They keep bloody doing this. They close down factories and lay off a lot of people so they can have full capacity but of demand takes off they can't meet it. Or if that fails they will finally make a good product that sells really well and then the next model update they will completely butcher it or change the name to confuse buyers ie. The Taurus.

Ford and Holden really need to lift their game and put some engineers on the board of directors instead of the corporate raiders they currently have.

[XplosiveR6]

Originally Posted by sleekism

Yeah what the hell is wrong with Ford.

It took them 18months from scratch to create the Mustang and they were expecting to sell around 100,000 a year but were quite able to up production to meet the ONE MILLION SALES in the first year of sale.

They keep bloody doing this. They close down factories and lay off a lot of people so they can have full capacity but of demand takes off they can't meet it. Or if that fails they will finally make a good product that sells really well and then the next model update they will completely butcher it or change the name to confuse buyers ie. The Taurus.

Ford and Holden really need to lift their game and put some engineers on the board of directors instead of the corporate raiders they currently have.

I think you will find that its not really a problem with ford due to supply, Austrlia is such a small market and so remote compared to most other western countrys, we will always be last in the supply of everything, not just cars, we are always last to get latest technology too.
Its not really a problem with manufacturing the required numbers, when a product is very popular the companies will simply cater for the market which purchases the most and will give the company the most profit first, then other markets will follow, its simple economics.
Wouldn't you sell to the client that orders the most products before a client that orders only a faction too?

[Hunter]

Perception perception perception!

What's that? P-E-R-C-E-P-T-I-O-N.

Come on Ford, lift the game, try and beat that stupid public perception.

IMO Holden was dumb to think that people wouldn't figure out that the rebadged Daewoos were pieces of junk.

My sister bought a Corolla last year but initially she was going to buy the Hol-woo until I told her what a bucket it was and how it was one the least safest new cars around. As mentioned, she eventually got a Corolla but only because she didn't want a 'bogan' Ford. :

[AU-MUSTD]

Thats what happens why you try to sell cheap Korean garbage to the masses. Maybe Holden were wrong in assuming the general car buying public are morons.[/QUOTE]


But the epica is still outselling the mondeo so ford will be hurting even more considering the price difference in building the two. Ford needs to improve there after sales service by at least ten fold before they will ever take sales away from the likes of mazda, subaru, honda ect... They have great product but back it up with crap service which doesnt cut it with me and most buyers in all but the large car segments.

[Paxton]

Originally Posted by AU-MUSTD

But the epica is still outselling the mondeo so ford will be hurting even more considering the price difference in building the two.

Only due to a supply stuff-up, and having the Mondeo produced in a factory that is selling more than they can produce. If they could have received the number they wanted, and if the factory had some some capacity, they would have sold more. Wait until early next year before we get an idea of how the Mondeo is selling.