Help me settle argument (Holden based)

[RedHotGT]

Hey guys...

I've got a good mate of mine who is a Holden Nut ( : ) and we arguing about the origins of the Holden Commodore...

I was basically trying to explain to him that the original commodores (VB VC) were infact based entirely from a european car from Vauxhall... infact they are the same car...

The same was said about the VN version of the commodore, which was again based on Vauxhall cars...

He claims that the Euro's copied the Australian Designed and Built Commodore... and I'm saying that Holden basically just used the GM links thru Vauxhall and Opel and copied the whole car from something that was already made/designed...

See the following photos - there is no doubt that they are the same car (front and rear differences with lights and grill) but look at the doors, and shapes/sizes... they are the same...

Can anyone help me out??

Below: Opel Senator 1983/1984

Below: Vauxhall Carlton 1978

Below: Vauxhall Carlton Wagon 1979

Below: Holden VB Commodore 1979

Below: Vauxhall Carlton 1989

Below: Vauxhall Carlton 1990

Below: Holden VN Commodore 1990 (Vacationer - wicked!)

Below: Lotus Carlton 1991

Below: HSV VP Clubsport 1992


Hopefully you can see the link between the cars... and this kinda makes sense!!

Comments, Help me out??
Cheers - Loftie

[Fordman1]

Commodore was originally based on the Opel design.

Google the models and their release dates, that should give you some ammo !

[irlewy86]

Up until VE all commodores were based of the european large car platform. Your friend is mis-informed like most/all Holden owners.

If you look closely at James Bonds "tomorrow never dies" (the one with the remote control BMW) they blow a Statesman looking Opel up. Entertainment at its best.

[Mr Hardware]

Originally Posted by irlewy86

Up until VE all commodores were based of the european large car platform. Your friend is mis-informed like most/all Holden owners.

Correct.
The VE is the first not-heavily-influenced-by-opel design. And hence its the most falcon-like commodore i've ever driven.

[R-Design]

Aussie Aussie Aussie... No No No!

[uranium_death]

Well this thread is basically done...

As Stan said, every model until the VE was based on an Opel design.

So football, meat pies, kangaroos and Opel Cars to you!

[flappist]

You have come to AFF to SETTLE an arguement....????????

As stated above there is plenty of ammo about. I remember when the commos first came out how Holden actually pushed the european design theme being superior to Falcon etc.

[trippytaka]

Originally Posted by flappist

You have come to AFF to SETTLE an arguement....????????

As stated above there is plenty of ammo about. I remember when the commos first came out how Holden actually pushed the european design theme being superior to Falcon etc.

I was just about to mention the "Euro Styling" marketing push

[Polyal]

OMG get that poor Lotus away from the rest of that rubbish.

But as above, during the 80's both Ford and Holden drew inspiration from the euro's.

Difference is, and still to this day, Holden did it the cheap way and Ford made their own version. The Granda was slated around the XD timing but just didn't cut it.

[Airmon]

Originally Posted by Polyal

OMG get that poor Lotus away from the rest of that rubbish.

Agreed! The only car up there I'd consider owning.

[bernadette86]

Originally Posted by Airmon

Agreed! The only car up there I'd consider owning.

lotus carlton awesome car

[04redxr8]

VB was really an Opel Rekord as has already been said. But to add to it, Holdens then MD Peter Hanenberger (who was actually an engeineer) was responsible for bringing the car to Australia. He was also responsible for bringing in RTS (radial tuned suspension). Another European first.

Dunno any more about the other models, but I guess this where it all began. Guess one Holden has been around for awhile.

Also Holden even admitted that VE was based on a 2000 model BMW 528i. A 10 year old car!

[Road_Warrior]

I got an idea the Kingswoods were based on some sort of Opel as well...

[Fev]

Love the Lotus Carlton, it's got awesome specs on the sheet and that 5th Gear chick likes it just as much as me(but she gets to drive one :()

[zetec]

I've got very bad news for him....

Give him a Warm Beer, show him this link and watch his heart stop beating.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opel_Commodore

[zetec]

Also - VE isn't entirely original either.

It's still heavily based on a European Car...

[Mansal]

Originally Posted by zetec

Also - VE isn't entirely original either.

It's still heavily based on a European Car...

[MickyB]

That's gold zetec

[Jim Goose]

The orginal VB Commiedore was also available as a 4cyclinder which quickly disappeared from the aussie market. This (virtually) same engine was the one fitted to the Opel product in Europe.

Last year I spoke to a car dealer in Brissy who was a car nut (holden one too) and he told me of a rumoured story that the orginal prototype Commodores were still around somewhere up until the 1990s.

These cars were imported to Australia and then had the front sheet metal replaced, interiors, suspensions etc. done here in Australia.

They never carried compliance plates and eventually were sold off, instead of being scrapped.


The Torana and even the Gemini were all based on European designs...
Opel CADET I think was the Gemini...

[castellan]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

The orginal VB Commiedore was also available as a 4cyclinder which quickly disappeared from the aussie market. This (virtually) same engine was the one fitted to the Opel product in Europe.

Last year I spoke to a car dealer in Brissy who was a car nut (holden one too) and he told me of a rumoured story that the orginal prototype Commodores were still around somewhere up until the 1990s.

These cars were imported to Australia and then had the front sheet metal replaced, interiors, suspensions etc. done here in Australia.

They never carried compliance plates and eventually were sold off, instead of being scrapped.


The Torana and even the Gemini were all based on European designs...
Opel CADET I think was the Gemini...

No 4 cyl VB commo. only the VC and VH in AUS.
I think in the 1975 opel that looked like our VB with a 4 cyl was the same sh-t 1.9L we got in the torana.

South Africa made VB commos to. with the big 250 chev 6 cyl in them.

[Jim Goose]

Opel KADETT oops.... The gemini was based on this.

All versions of the ASTRA are also based on the OPEL KADETT.

Holden Calibra... an OPEL

Torana.. an OPEL

Vectra... a Vauxhall

The Barina... an OPEL

The 2 door Brock Mobile..... an OPEL

The list is endless..

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Opel KADETT oops.... The gemini was based on this.

All versions of the ASTRA are also based on the OPEL KADETT.

Holden Calibra... an OPEL

Torana.. an OPEL

Vectra... a Vauxhall

The Barina... an OPEL

The 2 door Brock Mobile..... an OPEL

The list is endless..

The first Barina was the Swift, up until the end of the Mk3 Swift, Then they changed to the Opel platform...

[Ghiadude]

Holden fans never cease to amaze me with how little they actually KNOW as opposed to the rubish that theyve heard from other red sheep. I am a biased ford fan but will not argue a ford fact without researching a little bit about it first. shhhhheeeeeeesh!

[Road_Warrior]

There were 2 4 cylinder engines available in the Commodore as I recall. The Opel motor (the horrible one) was in the early Commodores and later they used a version of the 202 with 2 cylinders cut off. Which one of these was the Misfire, err, Starfire?

[351@GT]

short 202 was the starfire

[Saraco]

Originally Posted by 351@GT

short 202 was the starfire

Short 173 actually

[dannyxm]

Urghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

many a time i have tried to simply inform Holden idiots about such things.

then they reply by saying

"arghhhhhh but 'olden is 'stralian, not like yanky crap ford'' - insert vasts amounts of bogan voice / accent here.

[jpd80]

Loftie,
Telll your mate that the Aussie commodore was a combination of two different European cars.
Holden took the Opel Rekord and added the Opel Senator's longer nose to it to get sufficient length
for the Inline 6. They then did a lot of work upgrading and strengthening the front end to take a V8.
After that, the V-car platform was adopted in Europe and Australia, even Cadillac had the Catera for a while too but the VE proves Holden should have kept to V-Car proportions and kept the weight down..

[Spitfire 6.2]

Look familiar........ its the Opel Ascona, better known as the infamous Holden Camira/Gemini.

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by GT-Mark

Look familiar........ its the Opel Ascona, better known as the infamous Holden Camira/Gemini.

........................... :
........ its the Opel Ascona,


That's just plain nasty......