power prices and renewables

[Bushbasher]

Was just watching Sunrise and they were talking to some bloke who just relocated his solar business to the US because Uncle Tony and the libs are slowly kneecapping the solar industry or something, I wasn't paying that much attention. But I did catch that here in SA all our energy needs are now being met by renewable energy sources; by that I assume it's all wind and solar. So if that's the case, WTF is the justification for continuing to crank up the power prices considering they don't need to spend money on fossil fuels any more in this state.

[mechanic]

Renewable power is subsidised heavily. The big con is that renewable power is better for us consumers, no it isn't, it's better for the foreign owned companies who pick up government subsidies to build wind turbines, solar panels etc.

This week an Australian company has had to seriously downsize due to foreign made wind turbines being used to produce renewable power.
Check the history of wind generated power prices in countries when the governments stopped the subsidy.

As for solar power, the base load still has to be met by coal [ or nuclear if we ever get some politicians with the b---s to do it ].

[b0son]

Originally Posted by mechanic

As for solar power, the base load still has to be met by coal [ or nuclear if we ever get some politicians with the b---s to do it ].

Or hydro... ? The Snowy Hydro is only operating on a peak load basis currently, but would it have the capacity for base load (at least on a small scale)?

It was our greatest feat of engineering, I wonder why we have never sought to replicate it anywhere else. eg. FNQ has huge rainfall, but I guess its hard to get something like this through when everywhere useful for hydro is national park....

[Franco Cozzo]

^ That problem is the Government's fault, there is a potential to have a new industry here and research into green technology but the current mob isn't interested.

[mik]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

^ That problem is the Government's fault, there is a potential to have a new industry here and research into green technology but the current mob isn't interested.

Nah , all they are interested in is the green vote, the whole political system is flawed, as are all these party`s , their no 1. priority is getting power and lining their pockets, it would not matter if any party came up with the perfect plan to make this country great, ie better public transport/power/roads/schooling/infrastructure the other/s would quickly sabotage it, if they could not find something to shoot it down ..........something would be found/arranged ;), wink ,wink.

Most of the population are almost as guilty as these ******, majority of the population votes for who gives the most hand outs, not for whats best for the country.
no one even gives a toss our manufacturing has steadily declined for decades, "but hey baby i can buy a cheap import", made in Australia is almost non existent, the truth is majority don't really give a toss.
we could easily do something great with the power , we have masses of space and coastline to do stuff, but again , unless their is either money or power/votes to be had, no one wants to bother .

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by mik

Nah , all they are interested in is the green vote, the whole political system is flawed, as are all these party`s , their no 1. priority is getting power and lining their pockets, it would not matter if any party came up with the perfect plan to make this country great, ie better public transport/power/roads/schooling/infrastructure the other/s would quickly sabotage it, if they could not find something to shoot it down ..........something would be found/arranged ;), wink ,wink.

Most of the population are almost as guilty as these ******, majority of the population votes for who gives the most hand outs, not for whats best for the country.
no one even gives a toss our manufacturing has steadily declined for decades, "but hey baby i can buy a cheap import", made in Australia is almost non existent, the truth is majority don't really give a toss.
we could easily do something great with the power , we have masses of space and coastline to do stuff, but again , unless their is either money or power/votes to be had, no one wants to bother .

I think we're too far gone and heading for a big crash in the next 25 years unless we can find a new industry to bring in $$$, we can't just rely on China to buy our minerals for the rest of time, eventually they will also attempt to produce energy in a cleaner way than coal, they've already started looking into ways to clean up their country and thats included buying specific types of coal in the future.

We seem to be attracting many international students through TAFE and University to the country who are paying top $$$ to study here, maybe we put more effort into that area?

They were paying $20K a semester at my trade school when I was there and they're targeting that area specifically for more teachers at the moment, big growth area for their business.

[jaysway]

Originally Posted by mik

Nah , all they are interested in is the green vote, the whole political system is flawed, as are all these party`s , their no 1. priority is getting power and lining their pockets, it would not matter if any party came up with the perfect plan to make this country great, ie better public transport/power/roads/schooling/infrastructure the other/s would quickly sabotage it, if they could not find something to shoot it down ..........something would be found/arranged ;), wink ,wink.

Most of the population are almost as guilty as these ******, majority of the population votes for who gives the most hand outs, not for whats best for the country.
no one even gives a toss our manufacturing has steadily declined for decades, "but hey baby i can buy a cheap import", made in Australia is almost non existent, the truth is majority don't really give a toss.
we could easily do something great with the power , we have masses of space and coastline to do stuff, but again , unless their is either money or power/votes to be had, no one wants to bother .

'She'll be right' ...

[Streets]

with all the people going solar, there are less people to pay the power companies, so the individual has to pay more

soon the solar battery technology will be good enough and affordable enough for people to run their homes 100% on solar and disconnect from the grid completely

less people on the grid means less people to pay the power companies, meaning bills will get bigger for those still on the grid, which will drive them to get off the grid as well; they call this the energy death spiral

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Was just watching Sunrise and they were talking to some bloke who just relocated his solar business to the US because Uncle Tony and the libs are slowly kneecapping the solar industry or something, I wasn't paying that much attention. But I did catch that here in SA all our energy needs are now being met by renewable energy sources; by that I assume it's all wind and solar. So if that's the case, WTF is the justification for continuing to crank up the power prices considering they don't need to spend money on fossil fuels any more in this state.

we are about to lose Tindo, a local manufacturer of quality solar panels and, of course, the technology, employment and manufacturing base will be gone.

as long as Govco follow the wishes of big business and not serve the community we will continue to place our hands into our ever dwindling pocket of resources.

Australia is seen by the rest of the world as nothing more than a mine to be ripped up and sold off like spongecake.......that's "globalisation" and of course the heavily subsidised "level playing field" which see's us as a nation getting very little out of the resources that we give away.

every other first world nation is going renewable while we are going backward in shutting this sector down' instead of seeing this as an opportunity to export our technology and intellectual knowhow we are shoving our heads up our **** and going the other way.......madness.

our gas is being given away at a rapid rate of knots, our farms are being sold off as fast as we can sign the contract and out employment is being sent overseas as fast as the companies can close.

the question of subsidised power to the consumers gets really sickening and has been answered many times before so I won't comment again on that.

we are going "off grid" as quick as we can but govco and the multinationals have their sites on other money making opportunities to the detriment of the consumer once again, gas is one.

Florida has legislation in place making it illegal to generate your own power......

whilst we let the multinational investors rule our country the common man is in the poop.......I see nothing but poverty in the future for those who do not take the steps now to insulate themselves against the money focussed thieves masquerading as our government and the investment sector.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Bushbasher

Was just watching Sunrise and they were talking to some bloke who just relocated his solar business to the US because Uncle Tony and the libs are slowly kneecapping the solar industry or something, I wasn't paying that much attention. But I did catch that here in SA all our energy needs are now being met by renewable energy sources; by that I assume it's all wind and solar. So if that's the case, WTF is the justification for continuing to crank up the power prices considering they don't need to spend money on fossil fuels any more in this state.

Don't know how every one can blame federal government, state governments have more control on power companies in their own states.

[buggerlugs]

Federal, State, Local, does it matter ? We are the most over governed country in the world and we still can't get it right.....

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Federal, State, Local, does it matter ? We are the most over governed country in the world and we still can't get it right.....

Which is what I find interesting is that one of the major political parties preach less government intervention, less "red tape" but they still want to dictate your life to you in ways such as marriage and they back big business in deals where we lose out.

Unfortunately if you keep putting a 1 in the box for either of the big two you can expect the same result from both parties consistently, as they have no reason to change because what they do is still getting both of them into power when their turn comes around.

The wake up call needs to come from us and we have the power to do it, people don't realise that.

[damo76]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Which is what I find interesting is that one of the major political parties preach less government intervention, less "red tape" but they still want to dictate your life to you in ways such as marriage and they back big business in deals where we lose out.

Unfortunately if you keep putting a 1 in the box for either of the big two you can expect the same result from both parties consistently, as they have no reason to change because what they do is still getting both of them into power when their turn comes around.

The wake up call needs to come from us and we have the power to do it, people don't realise that.

This is why i haven't voted in the last 2 federal elections. I don't like the choice they give me.
I haven't been fined either, i wonder why.

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by damo76

This is why i haven't voted in the last 2 federal elections. I don't like the choice they give me.
I haven't been fined either, i wonder why.

Big Damo makes a good point in his comment, try to understand your politics & understand the different ways you can vote instead of the big tick in No 1 box only

Abstaining from voting is not good, you are allowing others to make decisions for you, no use crying when things go against your ideals.

[pottery beige]

SH-Y needs to go live in a cave

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by damo76

This is why i haven't voted in the last 2 federal elections. I don't like the choice they give me.
I haven't been fined either, i wonder why.

Plenty of smaller parties who would be keen for your vote, don't have to do one of the big boys, if enough people think that way the big boys might not be too big anymore.

Look at how everyone used to laugh at the Greens, all of a sudden come 2010 they picked up seats in Melbourne.

They're now a legitimate threat to the big boys in the inner Melbourne suburbs and the big boys even recognise that fact.

Remember don't vote above the line.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by Big Damo

Plenty of smaller parties who would be keen for your vote, don't have to do one of the big boys, if enough people think that way the big boys might not be too big anymore.

Look at how everyone used to laugh at the Greens, all of a sudden come 2010 they picked up seats in Melbourne.

They're now a legitimate threat to the big boys in the inner Melbourne suburbs and the big boys even recognise that fact.

Remember don't vote above the line.

If you ask me we have had our fair share of small parties, past and present, each and everyone has been a disaster subjecting the majority to the whims of an elist minority. Federation needs to be fixed, and fat chance of that happening e.g. why is there a huge Federal Health dept which runs zero hospitals?

The amount of waste is mind blowing ... but what does this have to do with renewables?

[cheap]

Solar, wind, wave are not cheap, they are heavily subsidised my the consumer (direct and indirect taxes and huge rebates for producing power back into the grid).

At to the mix the hysteria of global warming, co2, sea level rises, dying penguins and a whole lot more (which IMO have been used as a smoke screen to hide the heavy subsidised).

Put it another way, imaging a scheme where people were paid a lot of money to walk instead of using a car, more and more people think this a great dea, but business which use cars now find there are fewer cars and their costs are higher too, car manufacturers can't understand this either and are forced to increase their prices, lay off staff and eventually move off shore where cars are still used. Soon everyone is walking and getting paid a lot of money. It is a simple concept, for the life of me I can not see a single issue...

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by buggerlugs

Federal, State, Local, does it matter ? We are the most over governed country in the world and we still can't get it right.....

Are we? don't think so.
Have a look at other countries government structures & politics & compare before you make silly comments.

[buggerlugs]

Originally Posted by trublu

Are we? don't think so.
Have a look at other countries government structures & politics & compare before you make silly comments.

You obviously work for the Government.......

[Ms_Jam]

the solar battery technology will be good enough and affordable enough for people to run their homes 100% on solar and disconnect from the grid completely

You don't happen to have a source for that statement do you? I would just be interested.

I ask because, from what I hear, the problem in going off-grid is the cost of batteries -- which I understand is typically underestimated and underestimated a lot.

[GASWAGON]

Thers new battery technology that has just been realised in Singapore that drastically cuts recharge times and the batteries apparently can last up to 20 yrs cycle life.

Give it a couple more years and we should see some big changes in solar power set ups and electric vehicles also.

I personally cannot wait for this new battery tech to come around.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by EF_6

Thers new battery technology that has just been realised in Singapore that drastically cuts recharge times and the batteries apparently can last up to 20 yrs cycle life.

Give it a couple more years and we should see some big changes in solar power set ups and electric vehicles also.

I personally cannot wait for this new battery tech to come around.

It seems like everything else has advanced greatly but bigger batteries are still the same old stuff, we're only recently seeing some changes.

[CoupeKing]

If that new battery technology is ever implemented (I read similar claims about 3 years ago), how would that change the mobile carrier contracts, considering the battery starts failing 3-6 months before your contract runs out. I`ve re-signed previously, not because I needed a new phone so much, but new battery. Been on pre-paid for a while now, just use hand-me-downs... 5,10, 20 year contract maybe?

As for us selling off 'assets', its not just the current Government, its been happening for decades. Even Peter Garret approved Uranium Mining.

[mik]

I dont know what the answer is , maybe we have had it too good here and have become spoilt, if im still kicking in 20 years...... we might still be talking having a winge about the same stuff because nothing has changed .

[superyob]

You state renewables are subsidised... but the fact is that so are fossil fuels... massively, to the tune of billions of dollars each year. (from Karj)

Could you please explain how?

[karj]

Originally Posted by superyob

You state renewables are subsidised... but the fact is that so are fossil fuels... massively, to the tune of billions of dollars each year. (from Karj)

Could you please explain how?

Generally through favourable tax arrangements that that foster investment and expansion of the fossil fuel sector, eg: fuel tax credits scheme, accelerated depreciation, etc.

Google it if you feel like it... or not. Fossil fuel subsidies have widely been acknowledged as distorting markets for a long time. It's not simply left-wing propaganda

[poppa smurf]

so much talk of "subsidisation" as if it is a bad thing with so little understanding of who actually gets "subsidised".

I've racked my brain and for the life of me I cannot find one large organisation/company that is not subsidised,

coal is heavily subsidised, motor vehicle manufacturing, power generators, power suppliers, gas explorers/ suppliers, farmers, fishermen the list goes on and on.

our largest players are the most heavily subsidised and pay the least amount of tax or in other words........they don't pay their way as far as govco is concerned....we the cash cows pick up the deficit this was discussed by differing pollies in our latest "BUDGET EMERGENCY".

why then is it okay for the major players to be heavily subsidised and take their money offshore rather than subsidise an industry that would support Australian jobs, Australian economic growth, pay tax, expand Australian knowledge industry and help the battlers.

we used to be in the front runners as far as intellectual property and construction of advanced systems not that long ago......this has all been allowed to be bought up, shut down, moved offshore or simply shelved due to lack of funding or plain outright red tape.

these industries are now thriving in other countries......why?????

baseload power can be easily covered by many systems if allowed to be constructed, our geo thermal power station based at port Augusta has the capacity to more than cover baseload at any given point in time with the ability for expansion.

wind and solar already cover South Australia's needs......

the problem, as I see it, is not if we can go "green" but should we go green, the answer is of course yes.

for those who would argue against I suggest you take a bit of time to study other first world nations power generation (as I have done) and find out why we are amongst the last to go down this route.

Karj is on the money.......a lot of subsidies are in the form of tax breaks, or favourable decisions in the upper echelons.

[mechanic]

Originally Posted by poppa smurf

so much talk of "subsidisation" as if it is a bad thing with so little understanding of who actually gets "subsidised".



.

Would have thought the vehicle manufacturing subsidy was a prime example of why we shouldn't continue subsidising off shore companies.
Hundreds of millions of $ thrown at them and still finished up with no industry.
The Mt Emerald wind farm proposal on the Atherton Tablelands is a Thai backed venture that will be in line for a truckload of govt money. Ratch Australia is 80% Thai and 20% Australian.
If we're going to keep shovelling money at businesses at least let it be Australian owned businesses.

[poppa smurf]

Originally Posted by mechanic

Would have thought the vehicle manufacturing subsidy was a prime example of why we shouldn't continue subsidising off shore companies.
Hundreds of millions of $ thrown at them and still finished up with no industry.
The Mt Emerald wind farm proposal on the Atherton Tablelands is a Thai backed venture that will be in line for a truckload of govt money. Ratch Australia is 80% Thai and 20% Australian.
If we're going to keep shovelling money at businesses at least let it be Australian owned businesses.

absolutely and this is what I'm on about.....why send money overseas when our product is as good as or better (or could be with a little help) as any that is bought in with high "incentives" (subsidy by any other name.

our produce and goods cannot be allowed into another country without heavy taxes, if at all, why do we actually encourage overseas companies to swallow up our local manufacturing and food production in the name of "the level playing field".

submarines and solar panels are a good example?????

these companies, including the vehicle manufacturing industry, are laughing at our inept system, simply take the money and go elsewhere.

we have many overseas investors who can see the benefit of investment in these green energy units, everyone except our pollies who are hell bent on taxing the crap out of us and go somewhere else when their term is up.

as Paul Keating once said "the best way to see Darwin is at 30,000 feet on the way to France!"

how can we fight a thought process such as that.