and you think that you work for peanuts

[shedcoupe]

'Lateline has a copy of one of the men's contracts with a labour hire company called Supply Oilfield Services (SOS), showing them working 84 hours a week and earning $900 a month.'

'Dos Cordilla, Zenry Peteros and Roel Flores are waiting in the Philippines for the ombudsman's ruling on 18 months of work on oil rigs off Western Australia's coast.

They say they worked 12 hours a day, seven days a week as marine painters and general hands around a rig operated by the world's largest shipping company, Danish International, Maersk, for Woodside Petroleum's $14 billion Pluto Gas project.

Next to fully-paid Australian workers, they were earning a fifth of the minimum wage - less than $3 per hour.

"We were being underpaid because our salaries were only for $30 per day," Mr Cordilla said.

"They said the minimum wage in offshore was $400 plus allowance. They said $30 is for only one hour for them."

http://www.abc.net.au/news/stories/2....htm?site=news

Nice one, boss.

I'm aware of the distinction betwen work on Australian soil and work offshore, but even so, if I was in the same workplace as other workers for vastly different money I'd be rather annoyed, regardless of the work performed.
A crane driver rightly earns more than a TA, but $3 an hour ????

[CFOUR]

I was hoping to open this thread and see a image of a elephant on one foot being handed a bag of peanuts.

In my youth I had a minimum wage job, probably worked harder then than most do now, and was paid far less a day than I get per hour now.

[gtxb67]

while it is wrong - on at least two levels - to get people from the philippines (as an example), to work for small amounts of money, it is worth noting that the cost of living in the phlippines to australia is roughly 1/5. they were probably getting paid an amount that was quite livable in the philippines. if they agreed to the terms, knowing they were getting paid so much less, then i do not believe they are entitled to more. if they did not know how much they were getting underpaid, then hopefully they receive everything an australian would have


on a slightly related note, many people complain about sweat shops and the like in some countries and the fact they only get paid a couple of dollars an hour. due to the exchange rates and cost of living in those countries, a couple of dollars an hour is a decent wage. it is australia that overpays and therefore overcharges for everything, not the third world countries underpaying. it is all relevant to the cost of living on the day

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

on a slightly related note, many people complain about sweat shops and the like in some countries and the fact they only get paid a couple of dollars an hour. due to the exchange rates and cost of living in those countries, a couple of dollars an hour is a decent wage. it is australia that overpays and therefore overcharges for everything, not the third world countries underpaying. it is all relevant to the cost of living on the day

I tend to agree with this, although I think what people complain about is sweat shops existing, employees getting paid a couple of dollars, and the company selling their products for 80 or 90 dollars each. but I don't believe the labour hire company have done the right thing. Knowing how their system works, they would have still no doubt been charging the client a premium. As far as using the 456 visa, that's just silly. The 35 days straight is also against all kinds of employment regulations, OH&S, etc.

As with the above, if they didn't know they should have been getting paid $30 an hour, they should be fully reimbursed. If they agreed to it, well, that's a different story all together.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

I tend to agree with this, although I think what people complain about is sweat shops existing, employees getting paid a couple of dollars, and the company selling their products for 80 or 90 dollars each

sweat shop may have been the wrong adjective. some of us consider the multi-national clothing companies to be true sweatshops, not the majority of third world businesses

most of the newly employed third world people, although earning much less than us per hour are still earning an amount that allows them to live. the cost of living, plus the exchange rate means that their wages look much lower to us than they really are. for instance $900 per month is the equivalent to 36,000php (philippine pesos). when in manila in 2005 i bought a pair of jag jeans for $5. they were on special from $10. it is the western world that has it's head up it's butt. some things, particular cadbury chocolate, cars and plane tickets are still horribly expensive to them, but alot of the day to day stuff is almost as affordable to them as it is over here to us

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

sweat shop may have been the wrong adjective. some of us consider the multi-national clothing companies to be true sweatshops, not the majority of third world businesses

most of the newly employed third world people, although earning much less than us per hour are still earning an amount that allows them to live. the cost of living, plus the exchange rate means that their wages look much lower to us than they really are. for instance $900 per month is the equivalent to 36,000php (philippine pesos). when in manila in 2005 i bought a pair of jag jeans for $5. they were on special from $10. it is the western world that has it's head up it's butt. some things, particular cadbury chocolate, cars and plane tickets are still horribly expensive to them, but alot of the day to day stuff is almost as affordable to them as it is over here to us

yep, 100% agree. The ex's mum used to work two jobs over here, and send money back to the Phillipine's to her family. Which points to another thing, though OT, they have more of a family unit as opposed to Australia and other western countries, asian countries in particular.

Originally Posted by Scott
When there are jobs here that aren't being filled, I fully support a coy's choice to go find men elsewhere. If they go elsewhere and offer work at a rate that is attractive enough to garner interest, good for them.

Just the other day I was listening to the radio and a company in Dalby called in (out of depseration) saying "we need 150 heads, no experience necessary - starting wage of $100k".

Obviously not everyone wants to work in Dalby, and even less want to work on a rig so they do what they have to. If that means offering a guy from O/S an attractive package because no-one here will step up, so be it.

I'd do it, have just tried finding this on seek and careerone...and no luck :(

It stands to reason though, people are stuck in their comfort zones, and don't want to go away from social life, etc.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

yep, 100% agree. The ex's mum used to work two jobs over here, and send money back to the Phillipine's to her family. Which points to another thing, though OT, they have more of a family unit as opposed to Australia and other western countries, asian countries in particular

from my experience (and this was long before i met my wife), filipino's will work 24/7 if it was possible. they know what living tough is all about. alot have been very poor or have seen the people they love in that position and do not want to be in it again

my mother in law, who will be here in early june currently runs a bakery. she goes out to work at around 5am and stays there until 11pm. luckily the bakery is next door to their unit, so she has around 1 hour sleep during the day, but otherwise a 57 year old lady is doing those hours at least 6 days a week. sunday she sometimes takes time off for church


while these are not the nicest pictures i took from my holiday they are the ones that stand out the most to me

this one is obviously of a train line. it is full of squatters. it is about 200 metres from my wife's home in pandacan (fled may know the area). it is my belief that their unit is around 10mins from the president's residence. in short in melbourne terms, it would be like having these homeless people in south melbourne, maybe st kilda. we would be shocked for this sight anywhere but so close to the city :(
tragically i believe at least one child has been hit by a train in that place since 2005


this one was taken at 9.30 on a friday night. the road to tagaytay, while a main type of road, we only seemed to see a car every couple of minutes. 9.30pm on friday, with so little traffic and this fruit store is still open - i guess there was nothing better to do


it is very sad. when living in those conditions, being abroad even getting ripped off can seem like a good deal

[shedcoupe]

I agree in that if they knew the rate and accepted the terms, then fair enough, but I personally wouldn't be too keen on sharing a workplace with such a disparity in wages.
I don't think that those guys would do unsafe acts as a means of 'revenge' or do anything along those lines, its just the disparity between guys who all experience the same noise and fumes and so on.
But I'm not wearing clothes made in Australia either ......

[Polyal]

It reminds me of a segment I heard on the radio with an entertainment commentator and NOVA100....long story short he wore a mink hat and scarf to Dr Zhivago and some reporter had a crack saying do you feel bad for wearing an animal blah blah blah.

The commentator strikes back and says "well firstly where they come from they are close enough to pests, poorer people kill/skin/prepare and sell the clothes so they can feed their families"..."do I feel bad for supporting them".."no you F wit"....LOL

We have it so good here that we often forget the stuff we take for granted others would kill for.

[Yellow_Festiva]

We are some of the highest paid workers in the world. MANY companies (like cruise ships) and countries (like Dubai) import workers and pay them 'peanuts' but in many cases they are still earning more than back home. Not fair I agree but that's just the way it is. I often deal with these workers on my travels and tip them very well.

[shedcoupe]

There's a book called "Behind the Veil' by Lydia Laube, which describes the working lives of imported workers in Saudi Arabia.
A four-bedroom flat with 16 Filipino nurses in it working very long hours is an example. Not slavery, but not a whole lot better - economic slavery perhaps.
We're so lucky here.


http://books.google.com.au/books?id=...page&q&f=false

[Jim Goose]

Its been reported widely in the media that on several job sites in Australia that large companies have paid their migrant workers peanuts here on Australian soil.
Also cases of dozens of people crammed into dongas (mostly Philipino) and then being charged RENT).

Lets call a spade a spade.... If they are doing the same job, on the same job site, they should be paid the same. No IFS OR BUTS....

It has nothing to do with their living conditions back home and that their cost of living is 1/5th blah blah blah..... Its called exploitation.

Im sure you would all start to whinge quite loudly when these companies start ditching Aussies in favour of cheap overseas labour... or surely we would all sit quietly and thank our lucky stars these companies get to make more profit and pay themselves large salaries?

[4bbl]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Its been reported widely in the media that on several job sites in Australia that large companies have paid their migrant workers peanuts here on Australian soil.
Also cases of dozens of people crammed into dongas (mostly Philipino) and then being charged RENT).

Lets call a spade a spade.... If they are doing the same job, on the same job site, they should be paid the same. No IFS OR BUTS....

It has nothing to do with their living conditions back home and that their cost of living is 1/5th blah blah blah..... Its called exploitation.

Im sure you would all start to whinge quite loudly when these companies start ditching Aussies in favour of cheap overseas labour... or surely we would all sit quietly and thank our lucky stars these companies get to make more profit and pay themselves large salaries?

So true Jim, I myself working in the resource sector have witnessed this crap first hand!

[Scott]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Lets call a spade a spade.... If they are doing the same job, on the same job site, they should be paid the same. No IFS OR BUTS....

When there are jobs here that aren't being filled, I fully support a coy's choice to go find men elsewhere. If they go elsewhere and offer work at a rate that is attractive enough to garner interest, good for them.

Just the other day I was listening to the radio and a company in Dalby called in (out of depseration) saying "we need 150 heads, no experience necessary - starting wage of $100k".

Obviously not everyone wants to work in Dalby, and even less want to work on a rig so they do what they have to. If that means offering a guy from O/S an attractive package because no-one here will step up, so be it.

[4bbl]

Originally Posted by Scott

When there are jobs here that aren't being filled, I fully support a coy's choice to go find men elsewhere. If they go elsewhere and offer work at a rate that is attractive enough to garner interest, good for them.

Just the other day I was listening to the radio and a company in Dalby called in (out of depseration) saying "we need 150 heads, no experience necessary - starting wage of $100k".

Obviously not everyone wants to work in Dalby, and even less want to work on a rig so they do what they have to. If that means offering a guy from O/S an attractive package because no-one here will step up, so be it.

In a perfect world Scott, but I am afraid big corparations dont see it as filling positions as much as saving a buck.

[gtxb67]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

It has nothing to do with their living conditions back home and that their cost of living is 1/5th blah blah blah..... Its called exploitation

that point has nothing to do with exploitation. my wife is a filipina and she would rather her family have food on the table for 18 months than to go hungry. her friends and members of her close and extended family have worked abroad to help family members back home. would you rather the filipino's and all other third world countries go hungry and live in squalor so your concsience about exploitation is clear. i guess if they are over there, we do not have to care about them do we

once again, if the filipino's in question knew they were getting a raw deal but excepted it anyway, then in my opinion they do not have a right to complain
if they took the job on believing they were getting somewhere near equal pay, then they deserve the full amount



is the company right for paying so little - probably not. i see two sides. i do not want to see australian jobs going to overseas interests, but i can accept that others who are less fortunate then me have to eat as well

this country is full of slackass people who expect everything be given to them. if they do not want the job because it means they have to work, then bring in others who will - and if they do it for less; is that their fault or ours

[Yellow_Festiva]

Originally Posted by gtxb67

that point has nothing to do with exploitation. my wife is a filipina and she would rather her family have food on the table for 18 months than to go hungry. her friends and members of her close and extended family have worked abroad to help family members back home. would you rather the filipino's and all other third world countries go hungry and live in squalor so your concsience about exploitation is clear. i guess if they are over there, we do not have to care about them do we

once again, if the filipino's in question knew they were getting a raw deal but excepted it anyway, then in my opinion they do not have a right to complain
if they took the job on believing they were getting somewhere near equal pay, then they deserve the full amount



is the company right for paying so little - probably not. i see two sides. i do not want to see australian jobs going to overseas interests, but i can accept that others who are less fortunate then me have to eat as well

this country is full of slackass people who expect everything be given to them. if they do not want the job because it means they have to work, then bring in others who will - and if they do it for less; is that their fault or ours

Spot on and 100% correct. I have shared my house with a Philipino and a Pakistani and they say much the same. None of the workers go by force. They are doing it to suport families back home as the money is better.

[JC]

Originally Posted by Jim Goose

Its been reported widely in the media that on several job sites in Australia that large companies have paid their migrant workers peanuts here on Australian soil.
Also cases of dozens of people crammed into dongas (mostly Philipino) and then being charged RENT).

Lets call a spade a spade.... If they are doing the same job, on the same job site, they should be paid the same. No IFS OR BUTS....

It has nothing to do with their living conditions back home and that their cost of living is 1/5th blah blah blah..... Its called exploitation.

Im sure you would all start to whinge quite loudly when these companies start ditching Aussies in favour of cheap overseas labour... or surely we would all sit quietly and thank our lucky stars these companies get to make more profit and pay themselves large salaries?

If that were the case, a few indian programmers that work for me need a pay cut. They are "contract" workers (we have Aussie ones as well), and are getting roughly 1.5 times what I get, because I am a permie, and they are not. So sometimes, it works the other way as well.

[4bbl]

I guess I speak a little off the Original post but I do have a real problem with Skilled labour being farmed out as I think they should have the best man for the job, Not the cheapest. Any wich way it will come back to haunt them

[Scott]

Originally Posted by 4bbl

I guess I speak a little off the Original post but I do have a real problem with Skilled labour being farmed out as I think they should have the best man for the job, Not the cheapest. Any wich way it will come back to haunt them

What do you do when the best man for the job is the best because he's the only one to apply?

Saving $100k on a man, or 100 men is not in the interest of the coys running these large projects. The cost is minuscule in comparison to the overall budget but they need bums in seats - no one can argue that they don't pay market rates here.

[shedcoupe]

Yep. Life is hard in most of the world for most of the people.
16 to a flat is what you gotta do to survive, and help others to survive.

[irish2]

It seems that corporations are after a quick buck. How can they claim to not be able to find workers when we have over 20% youth unemployment. People are just not willing to train somebody anymore.

I have seen in construction first hand how many positions are filled in the short term but nothing is gained by the local economy. All monies are shipped offshore and no skills are retained, it's a lose lose situation.

[4bbl]

Originally Posted by irish2

It seems that corporations are after a quick buck. How can they claim to not be able to find workers when we have over 20% youth unemployment. People are just not willing to train somebody anymore.

I have seen in construction first hand how many positions are filled in the short term but nothing is gained by the local economy. All monies are shipped offshore and no skills are retained, it's a lose lose situation.

enough said

[shedcoupe]

Originally Posted by irish2

How can they claim to not be able to find workers when we have over 20% youth unemployment. People are just not willing to train somebody anymore.

The present dole /training situation is a joke.

On the 'commie pinko left-wing' ABC tv the other night there was a piece that mentioned that backpackers and African migrants were employed on rubbish collection in Alice Springs yet the locals were not interested, and neither were they required to be interested.

I spent a few years on the dole as a professional stoned hippie and I would have been far better off if I had been forced back into the workforce.
I forced myself back to reality eventually, but the taxpayers paid for a long holiday and that is wrong. For a society to be properly functional, everybody must contribute to the common good.
Giving some people a special dispensation to bludge that is unwarranted is wrong.
But if you genuinely can't work, then you should get a dole of some sort to prevent crime driven by necessity.

Mind you, there's a lot of wrong in tax minimisation by family trusts and all the other dodges available to the wealthy .....
Oh for some straight - talking pollies and 'common (or is it rare) - sense'

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by irish2

It seems that corporations are after a quick buck. How can they claim to not be able to find workers when we have over 20% youth unemployment. People are just not willing to train somebody anymore.

I have seen in construction first hand how many positions are filled in the short term but nothing is gained by the local economy. All monies are shipped offshore and no skills are retained, it's a lose lose situation.

You ever asked one of these 20% unemployed if they actually want to work...sad truth is most of the time, the answer is no.

What proof do I have of this...? I worked in recruitment, they would show up to ensure they met their quota for job seeking, attend one day, tell me to get ********d and go collect their dole payments...

It's not about training, as there are plenty of companies who are prepared to give people a shot, even those with no experience. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual to want to work. Sad truth is, those migrants, actually do want to work.

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

You ever asked one of these 20% unemployed if they actually want to work...sad truth is most of the time, the answer is no.

What proof do I have of this...? I worked in recruitment, they would show up to ensure they met their quota for job seeking, attend one day, tell me to get ********d and go collect their dole payments...

It's not about training, as there are plenty of companies who are prepared to give people a shot, even those with no experience. At the end of the day, it's up to the individual to want to work. Sad truth is, those migrants, actually do want to work.

No the answer is YES!. I went to school with many people who completed university degrees, only to have no job at the end. They eventually got jobs diving forklifts before moving into their chosen fields. I am serious when I say I have seen companies first hand use 457 visas to satisfy requirements over local labour.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by irish2

No the answer is YES!. I went to school with many people who completed university degrees, only to have no job at the end. They eventually got jobs diving forklifts before moving into their chosen fields. I am serious when I say I have seen companies first hand use 457 visas to satisfy requirements over local labour.

Out of curiosity, what were their chosen fields?

[irish2]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Out of curiosity, what were their chosen fields?

Mostly IT, teaching, and science based degrees.

[nstg8a]

im a kiwi, been here for nearly three years now, and its been a long held belief in nz that its easy for a kiwi to get work in australia, because australians dont want to work.

whether its true or not i wont go into. but i was talking to my neighbor the other day who is on the dole, she just turned down a job for $23 an hour, because she didnt want to start at 6am.

so obviously there is some that just want to bludge... which just tarnishes the image of all the others that do want to earn the money the old fashioned way.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by nstg8a

im a kiwi, been here for nearly three years now, and its been a long held belief in nz that its easy for a kiwi to get work in australia, because australians dont want to work.

whether its true or not i wont go into. but i was talking to my neighbor the other day who is on the dole, she just turned down a job for $23 an hour, because she didnt want to start at 6am.

so obviously there is some that just want to bludge... which just tarnishes the image of all the others that do want to earn the money the old fashioned way.

Around 85% of the temporary placements I made in recruitment were Kiwi's, TI's and Philippino's. The 'Australian's' that were placed very rarely lasted.

So when someone goes offshore for employees, I really can't blame them. As a business they need to function - if they have no staff, they can't function...

On the converse, if that job is on Australian soil, they need to pay the staff the equivalent of an Australian salary, regardless.

$23 an hour equates to about $45K a year around $30K more than the dole, I don't know many people who would rather get the dole than 45K, but when I worked in recruitment, it was rife with these kinds of people.

Originally Posted by gtxb67

some are happier than us, because they are not spoilt people. believe it or not some people do not need a big house and shiny car for happiness. they need their family and faith. most third world country's have residents that are happier than australians because they have their priorities right. well actually it is forced onto them because of poverty. it is not forced unto us, so we only care about what we have and what we can get, when most of us have everything we already need

Once again 100% agree.