it is getting harder to be responsible

krt10 · 28-05-2010, 06:36 PM

ok so a little rant here.

last Friday night me and a few mates went out for a few drinks. had a good night and we went to drive home. my mate only had a couple drinks over a few hours (full license too) so he said he would drive. on the walk back to the car we walked past a RBT that was set up.

my mate although 99% sure he was fine to drive ( like i said 2 beers in 4 odd hours) thought that he would check just in case. he is wanting to become a police officer himself and doesn't need any driving record against his name.

anyway we walked up to the RBT (which was deserted) and he asked if he could be checked. the officer replied that she couldn't check him but if he liked he could "drive around to the RBT and get checked in the car"
now who would do that, i mean he was trying to be responsibe and got told that he could drive thru where if he was over (he clearley wasnt) i bet they would have thrown the book at him.

in the end he drove home as he would have been fine but i just thought it was utterly ridiculous

Jim Goose · 28-05-2010, 06:57 PM

Hmmm.. Ok many years ago I was walking along the nightclub strip and I blew in the bag when I went past the RBT. Though on that occasion the Police officer was a mate and had recognised me.

I wonder what the policy is these days???

And yes its sounds pretty poor in terms of public relations, when you consider that some Police visit the pubs and clubs with a breathilizer to show patrons if they are ok or not.

GTP owner · 28-05-2010, 07:02 PM

They need to meet quotas for number of people tested in cars. They could have been even more difficult and said yes, but they could then book you for being drunk in a public place if you blew over the limit! Don't laugh - i have a friend who had exactly the same situation as you with that said to them

jaydee · 28-05-2010, 07:02 PM

The machines record all readings and are downloaded by their boss at the end of the shift. If there's a positive reading and no body to go with it the copper has some explaining to do, that is, did he let someone go who was over the limit.

GTP owner · 28-05-2010, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

The machines record all readings and are downloaded by their boss at the end of the shift. If there's a positive reading and no body to go with it the copper has some explaining to do, that is, did he let someone go who was over the limit.

Good point - was unaware of that one!

ohzone · 28-05-2010, 07:21 PM

So the system should be that if the guy blows over the officer gets a commendation for keeping a possible drunk driver off the road
isn't it about road safety ?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jaydee

The machines record all readings and are downloaded by their boss at the end of the shift. If there's a positive reading and no body to go with it the copper has some explaining to do, that is, did he let someone go who was over the limit.

jimmyxr6t04 · 28-05-2010, 07:25 PM

Another angle to look at is this; If the officer lets him blow, and he blows under, say .04, and then proceeds to have another drink or for whatever reason he has an accident or gets done later up the road and blows above .05, the driver can protest and argue that the cop tested him and said he was fine...

Sucks, but unfortunately these are the times we live in.

jaydee · 28-05-2010, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

Another angle to look at is this; If the officer lets him blow, and he blows under, say .04, and then proceeds to have another drink or for whatever reason he has an accident or gets done later up the road and blows above .05, the driver can protest and argue that the cop tested him and said he was fine...

Sucks, but unfortunately these are the times we live in.

Further to that good point, don't know if you guys are aware but alcohol rises for 2 hours after your last drink then starts to drop, so after 4 hours your reading will be what your reading would have been when you had your last drink 4 hours previous.
Complicated I know but there you go.

**TUF_302** · 29-05-2010, 08:26 AM

Sadly its always for the best not to risk it, 2 beers is fine if you ask me but as some other members have stated its a complicated process at times

Scott · 29-05-2010, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

Another angle to look at is this; If the officer lets him blow, and he blows under, say .04, and then proceeds to have another drink or for whatever reason he has an accident or gets done later up the road and blows above .05, the driver can protest and argue that the cop tested him and said he was fine...

Sucks, but unfortunately these are the times we live in.

If you have had 10 beers in 30 mins, you may register .03. Without having another drink you may register .07 at the end of the hour and Plod will have sent you on your merry way. This is the version I have been given on numerous times over the years.

The thing I don't get is, what magical difference to your BAC performance over the next time period does it make if you are sitting in a car or walking?

GK · 30-05-2010, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ohzone

So the system should be that if the guy blows over the officer gets a commendation for keeping a possible drunk driver off the road
isn't it about road safety ?

Keeping drunk drivers off the street in the first place should be a priority.

Have one unit with coppers patroling the nightclub or pub district offering a free service to help people work out if they've had too much. Good for people not sure, and good for public relations.

Have the usual booze buses to catch those who actually are drink driving.

GK

geckoGT · 31-05-2010, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GK

Keeping drunk drivers off the street in the first place should be a priority.

Have one unit with coppers patroling the nightclub or pub district offering a free service to help people work out if they've had too much. Good for people not sure, and good for public relations.

Have the usual booze buses to catch those who actually are drink driving.

GK

Without being rude, do you get out to the nightclub districts much?

I work in areas like that whenever I am on night shift on Friday and Saturday night and I have noticed a couple of things.

One is that you have a sea of drunken people moving around the streets and it would take many more than one car providing this form of service.

The Police are also way too occupied dealing with drunken violence and assisting ambo's to spare units for this service.

The majority of patrons in this sort of district actually do not drive, they bus, train or cab as they know they are going to be drinking. Added to that most of these districts have very limited parking.

It is actually the suburban pubs that are more of an issue than night club districts when it comes to drink driving. To provide one police car at every suburban pub for this service would certainly cost the tax payer a lot of money.

It would be nice if the answer was simple, cheap and effective but the simple truth is it is not.

I think a better option is breathalyzer units inside the pubs and nightclubs. I remember when I was a 19 year old soldier that had more than the odd bender on a friday or saturday night in Singleton NSW and Sydney, there used to be wall mounted breathalyzer units that cost you $1 for a test (this was back in 1991). Do these units still exist? If not, why not?

I bet the reason they do not exist now (if they don't) is because not enough people used them to fund them.

Can anyone confirm my theory?

jimmyxr6t04 · 31-05-2010, 10:56 AM

There used to be test units at most clubs in canberra, this was a free service. Unfortunately a lot of them were taken away as most people only ever used them to see who had the highest BAC.

To the people saying that cops should provide it as a service: With all respect, there are barely enough cops to do the current work they are assigned to do. Whilst it might be a good PR stunt in a small country town, it would never work elsewhere.

Can you imagine how many drunks would want to be tested even if they had no intention of driving? It would be a pointless exercise. Responsible adults should know if they're ok to drive or not, they don't need the police to hold their hand and tell them it's ok. If you're not sure, then don't drive... Wait another hour or so and you'll be fine.

On the one hand people whinge that all our freedom and rights are taken away, then on the other we want the police to hold our hand and assure us we're ok to drive?

Perhaps a better solution is a personal breathalyzer, then you can make the decision yourself, whether you're under, over or smack on!

It is not up to the police to start making our decisions, we have to be responsible for our own actions. With actions, come reactions. People need to start being responsible for both.

krt10 · 28-05-2010, 07:22 PM

yeah fair enough. i didnt relise that either

geckoGT · 28-05-2010, 07:23 PM

They also have no legal right to breathalyze a person that is not seen controlling a vehicle by the police officer (this is in QLD).

I had a situation where a cyclist who was clearly intoxicated, returning from the pub, was found unconscious in the middle of the road. His situation was called in and we responded lights and siren. When we arrived we were able to rouse him, he was asleep in the middle of the intersection at night (dangerous, so hard to see that we almost ran him over). Once we woke him up he denied riding the bike, which was beside him, he had grazes consistent with a bike accident and helmet on.

We had police on scene and I asked them if they wanted to interview him and breath test him. They interviewed him and he denied riding a bike. The police then told me because they did not see him riding the bike, they have no right to breath test him and no charges would be laid.

The guy then tried to refuse to go to hospital for assessment but I forced him to go, I am allowed to by law if I believe the patient has reduced capacity to look after their own safety and no one is present to take that responsibility (the fact that he was intoxicated and asleep in the middle of the intersection was enough for me).

In your situation, perhaps a better response from the cop would have been "if you are in doubt, perhaps you should get a cab". I am sure his senior sergeant would not be happy with his response. Suggesting that someone that is unsure about their ability to drive to get behind the wheel to get tested, none of the senior sergeants or duty officers I know would approve of that.

XR8 Uterous · 29-05-2010, 08:58 AM

Yeah we had this problem once, after a new years night, wanted to go camping the next day so we walked to the cop shop to see if they could breathe test us and see if anyone was right to drive, were quite rudely told to go home. Wouldn't of thought it would be to hard to make sure we were ok to drive, guess so.

Stefan · 29-05-2010, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by XR8 Uterous

Yeah we had this problem once, after a new years night, wanted to go camping the next day so we walked to the cop shop to see if they could breathe test us and see if anyone was right to drive, were quite rudely told to go home. Wouldn't of thought it would be to hard to make sure we were ok to drive, guess so.

And you guys thought that was a great idea at the time?

I'm not sure you're OK to drive NOW.

4Vman · 29-05-2010, 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stefan

And you guys thought that was a great idea at the time?

I'm not sure you're OK to drive NOW.

Yes.. if people are even questioning weather they're safe to drive or not then they're NOT...

nang3 · 29-05-2010, 10:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4Vman

Yes.. if people are even questioning weather they're safe to drive or not then they're NOT...

the only time i want to try and get breatho'd before driving is not because i dont think i can drive safely, its to preserve my license!!

I dont DD or condone it but sometimes after a couple of lunchtime pints and about to drive home the questoin enters your head even if you are feeling 100% sober whether or not your level may still be over the limit.

I've been refused breathos before plenty of times, once the coppers basically told me to GTFO of the station or they would arrest me for disorderly conduct - i wasnt drunk but had requested a breatho while they were in the middle of watching the Grand Final !!! Excellent community policing right there.

GTP owner · 29-05-2010, 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nang3

I've been refused breathos before plenty of times, once the coppers basically told me to GTFO of the station or they would arrest me for disorderly conduct - i wasnt drunk but had requested a breatho while they were in the middle of watching the Grand Final !!! Excellent community policing right there.

I still think that it is a service and an opportunity for education to test someone who is not driving.
If you are under - they can say it was great that you erred on the side of caution, but to remember that just 1 more drink could put you over.
If you are over - they can say it was great that you were not driving, and a walk is great to work off the effects, and it always pay to err on the side of caution.
This could only build rapport, and it is providing education and safety measures.

Bucknaked · 29-05-2010, 09:38 AM

It's a Random Breathe Test, not a free clinic to check your BAC. Regardless of whether your mate thought he was doing the right thing to find out from the police if he's had too much too drink, he's not really showing any responsibility at all. Ok, so he drinks within the limits to ensure he's under .05, that's great, but the real responsible thing to do, is not drink and drive. 1 beer or 10 beers. If your going to have a drink, then don't get behind the wheel. The role of the police here is to catch those people who want to break the law. Governments do the educating and write the laws. The police are there to enforce the laws and to get the point through the thick heads of drunk drivers.

OLDFORDNUT · 29-05-2010, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

It's a Random Breathe Test, not a free clinic to check your BAC. Regardless of whether your mate thought he was doing the right thing to find out from the police if he's had too much too drink, he's not really showing any responsibility at all. Ok, so he drinks within the limits to ensure he's under .05, that's great, but the real responsible thing to do, is not drink and drive. 1 beer or 10 beers. If your going to have a drink, then don't get behind the wheel. The role of the police here is to catch those people who want to break the law. Governments do the educating and write the laws. The police are there to enforce the laws and to get the point through the thick heads of drunk drivers.

A bit harsh dont you think,
The guys doing a very sensible thing i would have thought, and cops wonder why people dont have respect for them, your answer if coming from a cop would explain why they dont.
remember its only illegal to drive over the limit not under it,

4Vman · 29-05-2010, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by OLDFORDNUT

A bit harsh dont you think,
The guys doing a very sensible thing i would have thought, and cops wonder why people dont have respect for them, your answer if coming from a cop would explain why they dont.
remember its only illegal to drive over the limit not under it,

The sensible thing would have been to 1) monitor his own consumption so he knew he was under the prescribed limit and 2) made an assesment about weather he was in a fit condition to drive.
As has been said the Police would have to justify an "over" reading without a charge..
The onus is on the drivers to be responsible, not put it back on the police to check....

jimmyxr6t04 · 29-05-2010, 10:16 AM

For those interested there's a few online BAC calculators. Whilst perhaps not very accurate, they do give a good idea of what your BAC 'might' be.

Type BAC calculator into google. I tried the r u ****ed one and was pretty surprised that even after 14hrs, your BAC may still be above .02, or even .05.

I tried a variety of combinations etc, and the results (if some what accurate), are quite scary. Especially if you're the sort of person to smack down 7 or 8 'spirit' type drinks and a few beers in the arvo/night and then have to drive early in the morning!

For example, for my details. Start drinking at 4pm, consume 4 beers and 7 nips of a 40% spirit. At 5am my BAC could still possibly be .053. This doesn't take into account when your last drink is, so perhaps it assumes you drink from 4pm till 5am. Regardless, alcohol still takes time to rid itself from the breath/body. So even if i finished drinking at 9pm, i could still be over the limit!

For those that drink often, think about how easy it is to knock back 4 or so beers in two hours, and then a few shots an hour after that?

Stefan · 29-05-2010, 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jimmyxr6t04

For example, for my details. Start drinking at 4pm, consume 4 beers and 7 nips of a 40% spirit. At 5am my BAC could still possibly be .053. This doesn't take into account when your last drink is, so perhaps it assumes you drink from 4pm till 5am. Regardless, alcohol still takes time to rid itself from the breath/body. So even if i finished drinking at 9pm, i could still be over the limit!

Not sure about anyone else but that is a sh!tload of alcohol to have after work and go to work the next day.

I'm surprise the reading is not higher the next day.

Is that how much you drink regularly?

JC · 29-05-2010, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bucknaked

It's a Random Breathe Test, not a free clinic to check your BAC. Regardless of whether your mate thought he was doing the right thing to find out from the police if he's had too much too drink, he's not really showing any responsibility at all. Ok, so he drinks within the limits to ensure he's under .05, that's great, but the real responsible thing to do, is not drink and drive. 1 beer or 10 beers. If your going to have a drink, then don't get behind the wheel. The role of the police here is to catch those people who want to break the law. Governments do the educating and write the laws. The police are there to enforce the laws and to get the point through the thick heads of drunk drivers.

Bucky - spot on; couldn't agree more. For me the BAC should be 0. The current limit is based on all drivers (or drinkers) starting off with equal driving ability, and we all know that's true, don't we! Any alcohol in the system impairs ability in some way, and for some people who are already poor drivers, even a readin of 0.01 would impair them too much to be an effective driver.

GTP owner · 29-05-2010, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Bucky - spot on; couldn't agree more. For me the BAC should be 0. The current limit is based on all drivers (or drinkers) starting off with equal driving ability, and we all know that's true, don't we! Any alcohol in the system impairs ability in some way, and for some people who are already poor drivers, even a readin of 0.01 would impair them too much to be an effective driver.

Nope, sorry, but you are wrong.
Your reflexes actually IMPROVE with a small amount of alcohol in your system, but your concentration gets worse. This little known but confirmed evidence is then layed over crash stats. What you find is that the improvement in reflexes drops off after the 0.05 mark, resulting in a noticable worsening of driver performance. That is why it is set at 0.05 - you are not really at an increased risk until you get to this level. So a blanket 0.00 will not change the amount of crashes or fatalities.
The other thing to remember is that many medications have some alcohol in them, as do some chocolates. So it would be easy to trip up with some of these in your system, despite not drinking any alcohol...

**Charliewool** · 29-05-2010, 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Bucky - spot on; couldn't agree more. For me the BAC should be 0. The current limit is based on all drivers (or drinkers) starting off with equal driving ability, and we all know that's true, don't we! Any alcohol in the system impairs ability in some way, and for some people who are already poor drivers, even a readin of 0.01 would impair them too much to be an effective driver.

Oh here we go again!.. Bloody wowsers.
I thought prohibition ended in the 30's?
Really, is there a need for people to push their moralistic tripe down our throats every time a .05 thread is raised?

Peoples, it's about taking responsibility for your own actions!

JC · 29-05-2010, 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Oh here we go again!.. Bloody wowsers.
I thought prohibition ended in the 30's?
Really, is there a need for people to push their moralistic tripe down our throats every time a .05 thread is raised?

Peoples, it's about taking responsibility for your own actions!

I'll see your "wowser" and raise you the derogatory term of your choice (idiot would do). Who's talking about prohibition? We're talking about drink driving - I have no problems drinking, it's the driving afterwards that concerns me.

dave289 · 30-05-2010, 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JC

Bucky - spot on; couldn't agree more. For me the BAC should be 0. The current limit is based on all drivers (or drinkers) starting off with equal driving ability, and we all know that's true, don't we! Any alcohol in the system impairs ability in some way, and for some people who are already poor drivers, even a readin of 0.01 would impair them too much to be an effective driver.

jees theres some whingers on this forum.its not 0 its stay under 0.05. sad fact is I can have a few beers and IM STILL A MUCH SAFER DRIVER THAN A LOT OF THE MORONS i HAVE TO PUT UP WITH ON THE ROAD WHO HAVE HAD NOTHING TO DRINK ,WHINGE ALL YOU LIKE BUT THAT IS THE SAD FACT , BUT WE DONT GET THESE MORONS OFF THE ROAD DO WE.

THE GUY WANTS TO MAKE SURE HE IS SAFE, THEN BREATH TEST HIM, COULD NOT BE A MORE RESPONSIBLE REQUEST, 2 BEERS MIGHT NOT PUT ME OVER THE LIMIT BUT IT MIGHT PUT A 60 KILO WOMAN OVER.