My review of people movers (inc Territory)

[AWD Chaser]

The family had expanded and we needed a bigger car.

I might note here that this review is not to review cars as if they were race cars like a lot of magazines do, and is not to criticise one tiny little bump in the road that the suspension didn’t dampen. It’s really an overall review.

So what options are out there for people with a family? I looked at a few:



Ford Territory TS

Ford Territory Turbo

Toyota Tarago

Chrysler Voyager

Kia Carnival

Kia Grand Carnival



I was originally had my mind dead set on getting a Territory. I looked at and drove 2 models: The TS, and the Turbo. I had in the back of my mind that it could come with a 3rd row which I was interested in, however, I did notice that boot space would be lack if that was the case.

As expected, the Territory came with all the features I expected from a middle range Falcon. So reviewing the interior would be pointless. I took the TS out for a drive. I was driving the AWD model with a 6 speed gearbox. I noticed that 1st gear was a little lacking in top end speed, but realised this could be good for off roading and towing. Ride and comfort were just as good as a Falcon in my mind, and considering that this vehicle was up higher, this was a good thing. I was also happy being up a little higher as I could see over the top off quite a few cars… There were also a few little features in the Territory that impressed me. One of which was the glass opening door of the hatch. Could come in handy. I swapped the cars and took out the Turbo model. Features were pretty much the same. I must say, that for a turbo model, I was disappointed with the performance. Although it may have the figures to prove it is good at what it does… it just didn’t feel like a turbo to me. The engine was quite, I couldn’t hear the turbo very well, and, at full throttle, it didn’t push me in the back of my seat. Sure, it got up to speed very fast, but other then that, it felt lacking. It also felt very gutless from a standing start. I must admit I wasn’t looking at the speedo, but until we were rolling, it really felt like it bogged down… and this was unladen.



I then started to think, if I wanted a 7 seater, why not a minivan…



I looked at a carnival, but was not impressed by it’s engine, features or reputation. A big turn off was the fact that the windows on the sliding doors were fixed and would not open. A mate of mine had one and had had a few engines. Ok, so big deal. Kia had recognised the problem of dying engines in past models and replaced it old failing Rover engine to a Hyundai engine, and the new engine seemed to be holding up quite well.



I had the opportunity to drive a work car up to Sydney, staying up there for a week and back again with the Toyota Tarago. This was the base model, 4 cylinder, 3.4L 125kw. The car was quite nice on presentation (except for the mess the last people left in it, and the smell of spilt beer wafting out of every open window). It seemed to have room, decent access to the 3rd row (unlike the Territory) and all the normal goodies I would expect (Decent CD Player, cruise control, power windows). But one huge let down – the engine. Why would you option this with a 4 cylinder car? With 7 people and full luggage (which is what I had), I nearly needed a push from every standing start. But that aside, it maintained its highway speeds well, and didn’t do too bad at overtaking. But I think that the tyres on this vehicle might be an issue. I don’t know if they were load rated tyres, but it looked like they were about to burst off with all the weight we had in it, and this was standing still. Imagine cornering! The other huge let down with this vehicle was the stupid gear lever pattern. Although this vehicle had the tiptronic style +/-, there was no straight up and down to go from P, R, N, D. It was almost like reaching to the back of the cupboard to grab a can of beans and pull it back out without knocking over any wine glasses in-between. It was awful and I got the craps with it so bad I just started ramming it up and down through all of it’s notches till it got in the gear I wanted. To have this one feature alone to deal with every day would be a big pain… even if I mastered it.



So, I had a look at the Chrysler and was pretty much turned off after just looking at it. The design was nothing to write home about, it was a column shift… which isn’t normally an issue, but being a RHD conversion, it meant that you could wind down the drivers window and hang streamers off the shifter and that I didn’t like…. And the biggie… a MASSVIE 128kw 3.3L V6 motor… I wasn’t happy with the performance of the 4cyl Tarago at 125kw, so I wasn’t gonna be happy with this 128kw... and this was a V6 which would chew more fuel.



So back to Kia I went and looked at the Grand Carnival. Wow. What a package. Brand new, at about $12000 less then the base model Tarago, I thought it was going to sacrifice on features and quality, but I was wrong. With power windows all around (even the very rear side windows), 3 zone climate control with air vents in the roof, 11 cup holders, fold up tray on the back of the first row seats, 3rd row seats that fold back into the floor and make a flush flat massive boot space, and power sockets spread throughout the car, fog lights, roof rails, and a retractable 2nd mirror that lets you keep an eye on all the people (or kids) in the car. This is great for me, because I have a baby in a car seat, and it lets me check to see if she is playfully screaming, or really needs something, without me having to turn around. I thought that I could sell my house and live in the car. It has a reclining front driver chair with arm rests… oh wait, this car even has 2 coat hooks, and a take away bag hook. I guess I can! So, how about under the hood… again, I wasn’t expecting much, and I assumed this is where the $12000 savings cut in… wrong again. With a 184kw 3.8L V6 Hyundai engine mated with a 5 speed semi automatic gearbox, this thing was spinning the wheels at the traffic lights… and the car weighs 2 ton! You might think that because the car weighs 2 ton that it might be a fuel guzzler, but it isn’t! And on the highway, it drops into 5th, and is just a pleasant cruiser! But if your still dead set on thinking it’s a fuel guzzler, it does have the 80L fuel tank to get you from Sydney Airport to CBD in peak hour. This car is fitted with load rated tyres on 16” rims with a 6 stud 4WD pattern. And thankfully, it comes with an identical full size spare. Although, this limits my choices of mag wheels down the line, it is peace of mind that the tyres and wheels are gonna hold up to the job. I took this car off road and down a bumpy track, but because of it’s long wheel base, 2 ton body, and decent suspension, it was no where as bumpy as my current Falcon. Well how about the boot space. With the 3rd row folded down, obviously it’s huge, but with the 3rd row in use? Still huge. You now have this huge crater where the seats fold into to use, and then the rest. And if that still isn’t enough, remember those roof racks that come standard? I also tried this make shift house in an underground car park. At 5.1m long, I thought it would be difficult to park, but swing wide, and it’s a breeze. Excellent turning circle! But it’s still a Kia, and they have had a bad reputation in the past… well try this one. This car isn’t actually a Kia. It’s a Hyundai. And I just don’t mean built by them, it is one. It’s a Hyundai Entourage, rebadged as a Kia Grand Carnival. However, Hyundai owns Kia, so it’s really just one big circle.

[Stormman]

Thought about the Honda Odyssey? Nearly bought one when I was looking but decided on Terri as we are getting into tenting (soft roading) these days.

[DA68ZA]

howbout a rav4 v6

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by Stormman

Thought about the Honda Odyssey? Nearly bought one when I was looking but decided on Terri as we are getting into tenting (soft roading) these days.

The odyssey is a joke for it's 3rd row.... Should really be called a Honda Oddity

[bathurst77]

I gotta admit the Grand carni has caught my eye for the mrs as a kiddie carrier. They just so "clever" with all sorts of passenger features and things.
How about the Hyundai Trajet. I quite fancy them too.

[DA68ZA]

Originally Posted by bathurst77

I gotta admit the Grand carni has caught my eye for the mrs as a kiddie carrier. They just so "clever" with all sorts of passenger features and things.
How about the Hyundai Trajet. I quite fancy them too.

the quality of hyundai's is improving all the time ,and with there pricing they are very hard to ignore .

[hy_boi]

What about the V6 tarago, bit expensive, but the 1/4 mile in 14.9 hehehe

[Dave_au]

There is a 2wd varient of the Kluger out too.

[Geez Louise]

Go a Toyota. I have a Rav4 and love it. Would have bought a Kluger if they weren't so damn ugly!

[uranium_death]

Hasn't the Tarago lost its footing as the main people mover due to its high cost, or is it still number 1?

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by uranium_death

Hasn't the Tarago lost its footing as the main people mover due to its high cost, or is it still number 1?

Your pretty spot on there.

Honda Oddysy and Kia Carnival have really stolen the market from them. This was told to me by a Toyota Dealer in VIC who now also sells the Grand Carnivals...

[theunfairadvant]

A few Taxis in Sydney have bought the V6 Tarago and fitted LPG to it,
which i see them all the time at the airport some have clock up 300k
and have got no problems whatsoever yet.

[ED Classic]

From true people movers the V6 Torago is by far the best people Mover IMO with the Honda Oddesey next and then the Voyager and Kia.

Glad they may have fixed the Kias engine, they had alot (and I mean alot) of engine replacements less than a couple of years ago. My uncle had one and in the end changed it for a Torago and know acknowleges you get what you pay for. Good luck though .

[theunfairadvant]

V6 Tarago with 202kw and no one beats it in its class.

[DBourne]

even though i have no interest in a ppl mover, i enjoyed your review. sounds like you went at it in the right mindset.

unless im completely blind or work has ruined my brain, did you end up buying the carnival?

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by SgtBourne

even though i have no interest in a ppl mover, i enjoyed your review. sounds like you went at it in the right mindset.

unless im completely blind or work has ruined my brain, did you end up buying the carnival?

Cheers for that. Yeah. I am buying the Grand Carnival. I'm picking it up next week!

For a V6 Tarago, please state how it is the best in its class (and what class you are talking about). And note, the V6 model is only a 7 seater, whereas the Grand Carnival is an 8 seater.

Also, I must reitterate, the Kia has had a bad reputation in the past with it's engines, but if you fully read the review, the new Kia, doesn't only have a Hyundai engine, it is a Hyundai rebadged as a Kia.

[theunfairadvant]

Originally Posted by au3 chaser

Cheers for that. Yeah. I am buying the Grand Carnival. I'm picking it up next week!

For a V6 Tarago, please state how it is the best in its class (and what class you are talking about). And note, the V6 model is only a 7 seater, whereas the Grand Carnival is an 8 seater.

Also, I must reitterate, the Kia has had a bad reputation in the past with it's engines, but if you fully read the review, the new Kia, doesn't only have a Hyundai engine, it is a Hyundai rebadged as a Kia.

Luxurious forward-facing seating for 7 in V6 GLX and Ultima,
and for 8 in other models
2nd row captain chairs with individual armrests & ottomans in V6 GLX
and Ultima.

The 8 seater is only for the V6 GLI models only,
the mid specs GLX and top specs Ultima get 7 seats.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by theunfairadvant

Luxurious forward-facing seating for 7 in V6 GLX and Ultima,
and for 8 in other models
2nd row captain chairs with individual armrests & ottomans in V6 GLX
and Ultima.

The 8 seater is only for the V6 GLI models only,
the mid specs GLX and top specs Ultima get 7 seats.

I am in no means having a dig at you.

You still havnt said what class it is best in. I assume from your last post it would be seating comfort? If so, then I would have to agree, but When comparing the features of a top end Grand Carnival to a top end Tarago:

$44990 vs $69964

I just found that Kia had a few up on the Tarago such as:

Tarago does not have load rated tyres on the 4 cyl models
Kia produces more torque at 1200rpm lower
The Kia only needs 91 RON compared to 95RON on the Toyota
Kia has an 80L fuel tank compared to 65L on the Toyota
The Kia can tow 2000kg compared to 1600kg
The Kia is bigger in all aspects (Length, Width, Height and Wheelbase)
The Kia has triple-zone climate control as opposed to dual

However the Tarago does have a slightly better economy (thanks to less weight, thanks to a smaller chassis), better seating, and more power.

But it does come down to personal preference.

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by Kia Chaser

I am in no means having a dig at you.

You still havnt said what class it is best in.

Quality & Style :

And a V6 GLX which comes with the features you want & not gimmicks is
$56990

Though I would also look at the CX9, & not a Kluga.

[|||]

thanks for writing all those words it was a very good review into the insight of a buyer in this market segment. i really like the idea of vans and people movers right back to the bedford vans that were a big thing in the 70s & 80s that were hotted up and looked so sweet they turned heads whereever they went i wish they would make a comeback even if they are made in asia i think a kia would be a great base for such a van in the new millenium

[Fairlane]

Good reviews there. No Mistubishi Grandis, but yeah it is down on grunt to like the Tarago. Seems like the Grand Carnival is the go

Thought about a Volkswagon Multivan/Transporter though, they are dear i had a ride in a new Transpoter van and it was the duck guts of vans atleast anyway and they have brilliant resale.

[ABoringUsername]

Our work van is a transporter with a 2.5l TDI engine (4motion). It isn't a passenger van though. It is OK, but gutless below 2000rpm and above 4000rpm... The 6 speed gearbox is great though. Not many features stock though. no climate control, traction control etc...

[DJR David]

Dug up this old review. Having a look myself as another bub is on the way.
Can you give us an update as to how the kia is going????

I am 90% sold on buying one in a few months. I need a vehicle that sits me and the wife at the front, my parents (on occasion) in row 2 along with the new bub, and my first two kids in the 3rd row (in child seats), plus strollers, shopping etc. To my knowledge the kia is the only vehicle that meets these needs, and driveaway for about $43000!!!! sweet

[v8snerlo]

Don't really like to steer peoples opinions on topics like this but the new Mazda CX9 would fit the bill. The third row seats fold into the floor when not needed. Personally, the CX9 leaves the territory for dead. It is territory sized. The price is a little more than the carnival but resale and the matter that it is a mazda, not a kia, is well worth the investigation I think. You should be able to haggle for a drive away price of around the $50,000 mark but if that is out of the budget, do yourself the favour and have a look out of interest sake anyhow. Just my two bobs worth.
Leon.

[ADSXR8]

Originally Posted by DJR David

Dug up this old review. Having a look myself as another bub is on the way.
Can you give us an update as to how the kia is going????

I am 90% sold on buying one in a few months. I need a vehicle that sits me and the wife at the front, my parents (on occasion) in row 2 along with the new bub, and my first two kids in the 3rd row (in child seats), plus strollers, shopping etc. To my knowledge the kia is the only vehicle that meets these needs, and driveaway for about $43000!!!! sweet

Since this thread the game has changed considerably. Mazda has their new Cx9 which is a winner, and you could do worse than the new Toyota Kulger.

[AWD Chaser]

Originally Posted by DJR David

Dug up this old review. Having a look myself as another bub is on the way.
Can you give us an update as to how the kia is going????

I am 90% sold on buying one in a few months. I need a vehicle that sits me and the wife at the front, my parents (on occasion) in row 2 along with the new bub, and my first two kids in the 3rd row (in child seats), plus strollers, shopping etc. To my knowledge the kia is the only vehicle that meets these needs, and driveaway for about $43000!!!! sweet

Sent PM

[DJR David]

Thanks guys. I will have a look at a cx9 tomorrow. However $$$ and space in the back maybe a issue. Do the back seats have child restraint points?? To my knowledge only the kia and the territory do, and the MORONS at ford put the points at the base of the door, losing the space to put a stroller. clowns :

As for the tarago, an ectra $13000 or so is an issue when ya have 3 kids!!

[gz1]

I don't see what the attraction of the CX9 is. Very poor rear visibility, worse fuel economy than a territory, less low down torque than a terri, and in my opinion the interior is more cramped than a terri. I have not driven one, but would be surprised if it handles better than a territory as well.
So what am I missing? Why the big attraction?

[Buddy 1]

Originally Posted by gz1

I don't see what the attraction of the CX9 is. Very poor rear visibility, worse fuel economy than a territory, less low down torque than a terri, and in my opinion the interior is more cramped than a terri. I have not driven one, but would be surprised if it handles better than a territory as well.
So what am I missing? Why the big attraction?

I have been on this Forum for years now & also owned a Terra myself & the answer to your question is simple really, build quality as many of you have pointed out is the 1 thing a Terra lacks & cannot compete with Mazda, not to mention it is a newer design & rather clever really.

As a people mover & not a Soft Roader.

And think you will find the economy specially in the City is better than a Terra & Handling well it is a Mazda & they generally do build vehicles that handle well apart from their Tribute's & Utes etc

[XR Martin]

Funny thing about the $50k Tarago is that you get the same stereo that is in a base model $18k Hilux : If Ford did something similar they would be a laughing stock, but its amazing how nobody notices when its a Toyota.