Ford: Suing the Aftermarket

Sourbastard · 26-06-2006, 09:24 PM

An interesting article from fordmuscle about Ford suing aftermarket companies based on their trademarks.

http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2...rner/index.php

Quote:

Ford's legal team decided it was time to take action against companies using Ford trademarked brands in their business or publication name, URL, or in advertising. For instance, if you owned a business called "Joe's Mustang Parts and Service", Ford wants you to turnover the name to them and pay a royalty fine based on their calculation of how much your business has earned. It's enough to put most legitimate businesses out of business. In some cases, that is Ford's demand. Shut down or Ford will sue you for more in the Michigan court system and Ford almost always wins in the Michigan court system.

We might be in an interesting position one day if Ford Australia decide they dont like our forum name.

**russellw** · 26-06-2006, 09:36 PM

That's probably why we actually have a signed letter of consent from FoA to use the name both in the forum and in the legally incoporated name.

Cheers
Russ

Sourbastard · 26-06-2006, 09:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by russellw

That's probably why we actually have a signed letter of consent from FoA to use the name both in the forum and in the legally incoporated name.

Cheers
Russ

Yes we do. But anything that can be granted, can also at a later date, be retracted. Given enough political will from the US to follow likewise, its not unthinkable that the same could happen here in Australia.

GRNKPR · 26-06-2006, 09:41 PM

i went through this type of thing when we were getting our logo s and t shirts done for the car club im in,we worked with Ford to make sure it was right.We could use the ford script but not as part of our name and i know years ago of a wreaker eho had to put the ford script in a square box on its bussiness cards instead of in the oval
This will be real interesting to watch

v8falconsrule · 29-06-2006, 10:01 PM

the ford dealership that i work at can't even have its name and the ford oval together! and its a bloody dealership.....it can have its name xxxxxxx ford OR the oval but not both

**Sorted** · 26-06-2006, 09:41 PM

Very Interesting but this is a non-profit site so I don't think there is much to worry about - cant get blood out of a stone.

Although this has already been done with the USA Chrysler Boys coming to Town - they came to Australia about 5 years ago and any workshop in Australia with the Mopar Performance or Chrysler Logo displayed on their sign or used in their Trading Name were sued (except their registered car dealers)

Lucky the Australian Chrysler Traders all know each other some how and they only got to sue a few as word got around Australia Faster than the USA Chrysler Boys could got to each workshop. :1syellow1

Sourbastard · 26-06-2006, 09:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DRHEMI

Very Interesting but this is a non-profit site so I don't think there is much to worry about - cant get blood out of a stone.

The RIAA in the US sued a single mother student living in government housing for downloading 3 MP3's.

Lawyers unfortunately dont care how stonelike a copyright infringer may be.

BJ · 26-06-2006, 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

The RIAA in the US sued a single mother student living in government housing for downloading 3 MP3's.

Lawyers unfortunately don't care how stone like a copyright infringe may be.

I think you might be on to something here Sour one. I think a lot of Both Clubs and Business might go under with this.

**Stav** · 26-06-2006, 09:59 PM

Thats ok if they have a go at us all.I will never buy another friggin ford and neither would anyof us.. Maybe theyll go bust,move into rice farming or coffee . :thebirds:

rag top · 26-06-2006, 10:13 PM

I thought something similar hit the FoMoCo website.

Here is another article and what it is doing to a supplier:
http://www.recordnet.net/apps/pbcs.d...605100302/1003

Jason[98.EL] · 26-06-2006, 10:23 PM

i think that if they ford were going to do somthing about our forum name they would have done it by now

the reason im saying this is that with some of the people on here can give ford au all the reason to put a stop to us for using their name in part of our forum name by some of the coments they make about the product including people that own a ford

this is my 2c worth

jason

chief · 26-06-2006, 10:30 PM

To be a recognised Ford club and use Ford logos ect you have to have a a bit of paper work and signed documents from Ford what is not easy to get.

In regards to this site. I see it as a benifit directly to Ford. We tell people everyday here to buy a Ford. What they can do to improve thier car, how they may cross the line in regards to mods and warrenty. Sure I am sure Ford can survive without AFF. But why shoot your strong supporters like that.

Sourbastard · 26-06-2006, 10:34 PM

Guys read the articles. Companies that had permission and were using words like "mustang" for a decade are being sued.

And our percieved direct benefits to Ford do not always equate to legal reality.

rag top · 26-06-2006, 10:45 PM

I've also heard on the grapevine, that ford are starting to go after magazines with 'ford' or 'mustang' in the titles. But I'll wait for that to unfold.

I also understand that shelby is going after the repo market to ensure that shelby parts only go on shelby mustangs...

Jason[98.EL] · 26-06-2006, 10:58 PM

i know ill get into trouble for this but here goes

i read the artical and i couldnt see any proof in it the ARE suing people for using the ford name all i can see is for instance and stuff like that

have we seen any ford released publications on this or are we just going on what another web site says

jason

Sourbastard · 26-06-2006, 11:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heljas

i know ill get into trouble for this but here goes

i read the artical and i couldnt see any proof in it the ARE suing people for using the ford name all i can see is for instance and stuff like that

have we seen any ford released publications on this or are we just going on what another web site says

jason

wont get you into trouble, but will get you a healthy dose of ridicule.

I cant see oxygen, but I have no doubts that it exists. What kind of proof do you require? A ford rep parachuting into your loungeroom with a cease and desist? We cant even get decent communications from Ford for customer service, and you want detailed press releases on actions that show Ford in a disfavourable light?? And its not just "another" website, if you bother to do some googling, you will find it extends a bit further than that. Try reading the other article that 67 posted.

"Gee ive tried nothing and I'm all out of ideas."

rag top · 26-06-2006, 11:19 PM

There is a LOT of discussion about this on other forums:

http://www.californiaspecial.com/for...ead.php?t=3162
http://forums.stangnet.com/showthread.php?t=641370

chief · 26-06-2006, 11:37 PM

Here is some more discussion:
Vintage Mustang Forum - http://forums.vintage-mustang.com/sh.../1427778/tp/1/
An online petition regarding this issue - http://www.petitiononline.com/65must65/petition.html
Here is the blog of replies from Ford Muscle - http://www.fordmuscle.com/blog/help-...ce-ford/112105

qwigybo · 27-06-2006, 04:56 AM

eas way around just change the site to aff the name is implied but not directly used

OzJavelin · 27-06-2006, 07:15 AM

Chrysler went thru all this about 20years ago and it wasn't pretty. Back in the Eighties - when Chrysler bearly gave a toss about performance - they were suing everyone left, right and centre for using the "Mopar" brand name. A few magazines had to change names. Aftermarket vendors changed names, etc, etc. I think it even extended here to Australia ... these issues can get real serious real quick.

LTDHO · 27-06-2006, 07:40 AM

Isn't it a case of Americans being American and sueing for the safe of sueing?

desGT · 27-06-2006, 08:19 AM

Porsche have done the same thing. They have totally pulled in the use of their name and logo, and sued. Even the Porsche clubs (incl Australia) have had to stop using the Porsche logo and design a new one. To be a "Porsche Club", you must also use the Porsche (Germany) web site who will host your club (no, they are not being nice, they are controlling) - PCV went through a period where they could not even update their site until all the controls were in place. Seems the way things are going.

mash85 · 27-06-2006, 09:48 AM

talk about dumb. this sort of thing ****es me off. ford need to concentrate more on making good cars (ford usa, australia are already doing this) and less on crap like this.
Sueing enthusiasts and business which cater for the aftermarket is going to do nothing for keeping any loyal customers. I think its called biting the hand that feeds you.
the aftermarket does alot for ford (and other manufactuers for that matter) in developing parts and giving customres options that ford wouldnt have the time or money to do themselves. if anything for should be working with them than against them.

--end rant

4.9 EF Futura · 27-06-2006, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LTDHO

Isn't it a case of Americans being American and sueing for the safe of sueing?

Exactly what i was going to say.

Of course if the FoMoCo rock up to a court in MICHIGAN with a few mill worth of lawyers and want to rub out a few small businesses - it's going to happen.

Hell, the judge's family - current and previous generation - probably all worked at an auto manufacturer.

Bang, one decision = precedent = everyone else is in trouble.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SB

I cant see oxygen, but I have no doubts that it exists. What kind of proof do you require? A ford rep parachuting into your loungeroom with a cease and desist? We cant even get decent communications from Ford for customer service, and you want detailed press releases on actions that show Ford in a disfavourable light??

Dave, never thought i'd find myself accusing you of specious reasoning??? But here we are. Utilising your logic, i could claim that my magic finger keeps dragons away...

But of course I kid - and i detract from the point at hand.

So - what if it is true, and the sky is falling on all those people utilising a registered trade mark or brand name for their own use? Doesnt ford have the right to protect its intangible assets?

IMO - probably, yes. But in all reality, i think us Aussies are a little too egalitarian to let something like this go down. ACA would be all over it - "heartless companies, ambulance chasing lawyers etc etc".

Would not suprise me in the least to see such actions go unchallenged in the US of A.

Sourbastard · 27-06-2006, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 4.9 EF Futura

Dave, never thought i'd find myself accusing you of specious reasoning??? But here we are. Utilising your logic, i could claim that my magic finger keeps dragons away...

I googled your magic fingers, nothing but porn came up. Apparently your fingers have more uses then just keeping dragons away.

Falchoon · 27-06-2006, 07:28 PM

I have a mate who runs a business selling new and used Holden parts. The name of his business is XXXXXX Holden Spares and website XXXXXX.Holden.com and he got an official letter from Holden's solicitor asking him to remove the word "Holden" from his business name and website, and also to remove any other Holden/GM/GMH logos that he had on his website. He laughed off the first letter and then got a second saying he had 30 days or see you in court. He rang them up and tried to reason with them but they weren't interested in negotiation. He ended up redoing the website and changing the domain name and email address. Luckily he knows a bit of computer stuff and managed to change all this stuff himself, would of cost thousands if he had to pay some IT geek to do all this for him.

Group C · 27-06-2006, 07:37 PM

GM are well known for this, so it will only be a matter of time before the others catch on.
I'm in a couple of clubs, 1 of which is an ISUZU car-based club. Problem here is that no-one can even use the WORD Isuzu in anything like a club, wreckers, forum, whatever, without written permission, let alone use the Isuzu logo. And permission is not forthcoming very often at all...
I personally know of a couple of people who have had to change 'Isuzu' stuff because of this.
At the end of the day, it's just a means for a corporation to make some more money...

4.9 EF Futura · 29-06-2006, 01:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sourbastard

I googled your magic fingers, nothing but porn came up. Apparently your fingers have more uses then just keeping dragons away.

Hahaha. Touche. So it's safe to say you're now familiar with my work... lol

GT-E · 27-06-2006, 10:46 AM

I guess we will see GM doing the same thing.
They cannot make money selling cars, so they will sue their partners, I guess this could be a good sideline business.
While I understand that Ford have a right to protect their IP, they should only work on people Passing off and not companies that have supported and grown an excellent aftermarket business. I think that if you have been using a name for over 5 years, you should have an automatic license to continue to use it, Ford should try to stick to making cars and not making enemies

**russellw** · 27-06-2006, 05:25 PM

Before we get carried away on a sea of negativity here let me make a few comments.

1. This is not downtown Michigan. Australian courts have a habit of taking different views to issues of this nature than their US cousins.

2. If such an action were to be taken in this country then we (and a number of other interested parties) would inevitably seek to defend that action.

3. If consent to use the name could actually be withdrawn for anything other than a breach of the conditions precedent to that consent being granted then it would be interesting to see how the Business Names registrar in Vic would view that action. Furthermore as the Incorporated Association legal entity contains the name the issue would be further complicated by the relevant Acts related to that.

4. If such an action were launched against this forum and we were unsuccessful in defending it then we would then be known as AFF.

Cheers
Russ