Buying a 4x4 vs going RTV style

LethalLeigh · 10-07-2011, 04:58 PM

Hey guys, I thought I'd pose a question to the masses to get some input for the next vehicle choice for my partner. She currently drives an 03 BA XT and uses it to tow a pretty standard horse float about with one horse.

What we've found however is traction at her agistment is pretty damn woeful but we're mainly let down by normal road tyres and a single pegger diff. We've discussed different replacements and come up with a few ideas:

- I'd love an RTV but with a young girl a single cab just doesn't work.
- The option of a full 4x4 like a Patrol would tick a lot of boxes but fuel consumption around town is a concern.
- Retrofitting an RTV style rear end to a BA/F wagon (possibly E-Gas), be it a manual locker or something like a Lokka rear end from 4WD systems. The questions surrounding this probably relate to feasibility and reliability compared to a traditional fourbie.

Over to you guys...

**Giant Cranium** · 10-07-2011, 04:59 PM

diesel 4x4

TheInterceptor · 10-07-2011, 05:35 PM

I get close to 700kms from a 70L tank combined cycle out of my diesel.

Pretty good consumption imo. Best ive gotten was bout 800kms to the tank.

My vote is diesel dual cab

**Raptor** · 10-07-2011, 05:40 PM

If an RTV won't work choose an AWD Territory.

If you not rock hopping you don't really need a 4WD and they come with a lot of compromises for everyday road use.

302 XC · 10-07-2011, 05:53 PM

The newer diesel turbo 4x4s will return good economy
Does depend on what
The older patrol 4.2 diesels get low teens per 100Ks
The newer 3L patrols,not sure
But dont get the early 3L patrol, no matter what the cost
They have major issues

It does really depend whats the major purchase for
Daily duties with the occasional tow
Or alot of towing with the occasional daily duties
Most 4x4s are still a single pegger rear

Whats the budget ???

lamborghinifan · 11-07-2011, 08:18 PM

awd terry on gas

Brazen · 11-07-2011, 08:46 PM

Territory, Territory, Territory!! Otherwise just chuck a LSD in the back of the Falcon, 700 bucks well spent. I tow horse floats in a RWD with LSD, works great.

Road_Warrior · 12-07-2011, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Territory, Territory, Territory!! Otherwise just chuck a LSD in the back of the Falcon, 700 bucks well spent.

This.

jed · 13-07-2011, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

Territory, Territory, Territory!! Otherwise just chuck a LSD in the back of the Falcon, 700 bucks well spent.

i agree with this, on gas , personally i wouldnt go the diesel 4wd option unless you have a money tree

pb02 · 13-07-2011, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jed

i agree with this, on gas , personally i wouldnt go the diesel 4wd option unless you have a money tree

Why would you need a money tree? I get around the 7-8ltrs per 100kms so far. 10 year factory warranty, and fixed price servicing? My 4x4 dual cab I replaced only needed one set of tyres in the 4 years and 140,000kms I had it?

mik · 11-07-2011, 08:57 PM

manual locking diffs are ok as long as you don`t forget to disengage them when you get onto the firm stuff, myself i like the idea of a torsen diff if possible with some decent treads.

LethalLeigh · 11-07-2011, 11:57 PM

In the end budget is still undecided and all options will be looked at. I'd love something to do some serious offroading but I don't think I'm going to have the budget for a 2012 Ranger :P. So I'm left thinking that I'd love to take advantage of the poor resale of a large family car and mod it a bit. So it's good to hear a variety of feedback. Cheers so far guys.

Brazen · 12-07-2011, 12:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LethalLeigh

In the end budget is still undecided and all options will be looked at. I'd love something to do some serious offroading but I don't think I'm going to have the budget for a 2012 Ranger :P. So I'm left thinking that I'd love to take advantage of the poor resale of a large family car and mod it a bit. So it's good to hear a variety of feedback. Cheers so far guys.

I still dont know why people want a 4wd when your towing, the suspension is too stiff and the handling too roly-poly. What you want when you are towing is long wheelbase, wide track, low centre of gravity... I know a guy who has a 90grand Landcruiser and to this day he says the best tow car he ever had was a V8 AU Fairlane.

302 XC · 13-07-2011, 09:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brazen

I still dont know why people want a 4wd when your towing, the suspension is too stiff and the handling too roly-poly. What you want when you are towing is long wheelbase, wide track, low centre of gravity... I know a guy who has a 90grand Landcruiser and to this day he says the best tow car he ever had was a V8 AU Fairlane.

Most use the larger 4x4s for towing as they have a bigger tow rating than a V8 fairlane
Dont see too many people pulling 26foot vans with V8 fairlanes
There was a fairlane in town with a tandem on the back , loaded,the towball wasnt a few inches of the ground

As for the pajeros or the lesser popular brands
They are good value for money as not many want them
Its nissans and toymotas that have the following and ask the big $$$

BrisVegas · 13-07-2011, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 302 XC

As for the pajeros or the lesser popular brands
They are good value for money as not many want them
Its nissans and toymotas that have the following and ask the big $$$

bwahahahahaha!! Just the thousands of grey nomads cruising the country with their Jayco Expandas and the like. The Pajero is a very well respected tow vehicle and offers much cheaper running costs than the Cruiser.

Nissan Patrols are dirt cheap for a reason... Toyotas play on the fact that they have a dealer in every town out bush and they have 'legendary' reliability.

chevypower · 13-07-2011, 10:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

Toyotas play on the fact that they have a dealer in every town out bush and they have 'legendary' reliability.

Actually Toyota parts grow on trees in the bush, not that you need them to, because they never need to be repaired, they are 100% reliable, and are worth more on the used market than they are brand new.

302 XC · 13-07-2011, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrisVegas

bwahahahahaha!! Just the thousands of grey nomads cruising the country with their Jayco Expandas and the like. The Pajero is a very well respected tow vehicle and offers much cheaper running costs than the Cruiser.

Nissan Patrols are dirt cheap for a reason... Toyotas play on the fact that they have a dealer in every town out bush and they have 'legendary' reliability.

Most 4x4s offer cheaper running costs then a cruiser or even a patrol
(My 4.2 petrol patrol at 20-25L/100Ks is testimate to that)
Nissans patrols are cheap ???
maybe the newer 3L 4 cylinder ones
Try buying an early 4.2 diesel GQ model thats any good ,and there wont be any change outta 10K
My GQ patrol, ive just been offered a few more K than i paid 2 years ago
You have to look at the popular brands Vs the not so
Same year,same Ks,same condition the more popular brands will and generally command more $$$
Toyota , always have and always will command a premium

Fireblade · 12-07-2011, 12:15 AM

Can't go past a diesel 4x4 Leigh, the 2.5TD Courier gets good economy around town and towing a decent weight, but not too sure on their offroad capabilities but most can be made to go well in the thick stuff with decent mods.

Heaps of various diesel 4bys will tick the box though, Hilux, Patrol, Landcruiser etc plenty to choose from. When you get one hit me up and I'll take ya down the quarry for some fun

TheInterceptor · 12-07-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by F6 FOON

Can't go past a diesel 4x4 Leigh, the 2.5TD Courier gets good economy around town and towing a decent weight, but not too sure on their offroad capabilities but most can be made to go well in the thick stuff with decent mods.

Heaps of various diesel 4bys will tick the box though, Hilux, Patrol, Landcruiser etc plenty to choose from. When you get one hit me up and I'll take ya down the quarry for some fun

Yes 2.5TD is the goods. Get the XLT and you get underbody protection and an LSD rear standard.

As ive found on sunday they go great offroad! I do reccommend them, you can pick up a dual cab XLT bout 15 to 25k depending. TJM is where youd go for offroad gear for these. (my exp.)

chevypower · 12-07-2011, 02:15 AM

My dad (in Oz) towed the horse float with a WK 5.7 Caprice, the rear suspension is clapped out now. I recommended he takes a serious look at the Grand Cherokee 3.0 CRD, and he says he loves it so much he would buy another. 3.5 tonne towing capacity, and not a massive car, drives good on-road, powerful and economical. The new model that has just come out is supposed to be much better again.

4vdean · 12-07-2011, 10:05 AM

AWD territory all the way

jcxr · 12-07-2011, 10:10 AM

Isnt a falcon ute a little light for towing a horse float?
Go the 4x4 in a turbo diesel. Great allrounder, you can do your 4WD'ing and she is safer.

GTP owner · 12-07-2011, 10:24 AM

I would suggest the Pajero - we just bought one 6 months ago and can't fault it. Good fuel consumption from the diesel, heaps of grunt, 3ton towing capacity, lots of room, pretty good offroad, and a lot cheaper than the major rivals

pb02 · 13-07-2011, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GTP owner

I would suggest the Pajero - we just bought one 6 months ago and can't fault it. Good fuel consumption from the diesel, heaps of grunt, 3ton towing capacity, lots of room, pretty good offroad, and a lot cheaper than the major rivals

I would agree with this. They are great value for money. I just picked up an NT Pajero Diesel last week. Very comfortable, heaps of added extras and a lot of room. The towing capacity is great, as mentioned above. My first trip on Saturday to the other side of the city and back returned 7.6lts per 100kms!

**janddbone** · 12-07-2011, 09:45 PM

RTV Wagon All The Way!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

jed · 13-07-2011, 01:55 PM

are you towing 2.5tonne of horse float and assorted gear all over the state etc?

the territory has a secure weatherproof cargo area being a wagon , which can be useful for carting people too if you need too + its a bit heavier so stabler when towing

the alternatives the OP has put up suggests the budget doesnt stretch to a "newer" vehicle that would still have warranty

fuel economy soon disappears when you actually make diesels work , and diesels are gutless in comparison to the petrol 6 even on gas.

lets remember these are our individual opinions , the dual cab works for you but not me.

2011G6E · 13-07-2011, 03:31 PM

Dare I say it...

"turbo diesel Prado"...

I do a lot of highway kilometers in these things, and I can tell you they are, honestly, just as comfortable as our G6E. they've got a lot of good features, and get really good economy. Off road they are a star as well. Pretty much go anywhere sensible with them.

Towing capacity is good, and they handle pretty good as well.

Umm..."diesels are gutless in comparison to the petrol 6 even on gas"...?

Our last car, a 2004 100 series Landcruiser 4.2 six cylinder turbo diesel got good economy, and pulling a massive double axle trailer loaded with a houseful of gear used practically the same amount of fuel, and stormed up hills. Torque is what diesels are all about...

jed · 13-07-2011, 03:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Umm..."diesels are gutless in comparison to the petrol 6 even on gas"...?

i probably coulda worded that better

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Our last car, a 2004 100 series Landcruiser 4.2 six cylinder turbo diesel got good economy, and pulling a massive double axle trailer loaded with a houseful of gear used practically the same amount of fuel, and stormed up hills.

granted, but find a 100 series cruiser with under 200000ks for under $20k which isnt ex mine or flogged to within an inch of its life

GTP owner · 13-07-2011, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2011G6E

Dare I say it...

"turbo diesel Prado"...

I do a lot of highway kilometers in these things, and I can tell you they are, honestly, just as comfortable as our G6E. they've got a lot of good features, and get really good economy. Off road they are a star as well. Pretty much go anywhere sensible with them.

Towing capacity is good, and they handle pretty good as well.

Umm..."diesels are gutless in comparison to the petrol 6 even on gas"...?

Our last car, a 2004 100 series Landcruiser 4.2 six cylinder turbo diesel got good economy, and pulling a massive double axle trailer loaded with a houseful of gear used practically the same amount of fuel, and stormed up hills. Torque is what diesels are all about...

I agree to a point. The prado is about $10k more expensive, has less power, and has a smaller towing capacity compared to the pajero. That was the trio that made me pick the NT pajero. 147kw and 400+Nm tows with ease, and still returns 12L/100km with 2,500kg on the trailer

LethalLeigh · 14-07-2011, 06:35 PM

Budget is a bit of an issue at the moment but we may end up holding off on a decision for a few months yet and get a bit more money behind us.

The missus is pretty keen on an AWD Territory at the moment. Someone will have to help me out here though and remind me if they come with rear LSD standard. The key driving point for her wanting something Falcon based is that she has confidence driving with that much power and as much as I've explained torque vs power in the context of turbo diesel vs the trusty ol' 4L I'm not getting a whole lot of traction if you pardon the pun.

Ultimately if we go full size 4x4 I'm not averse to a Pajero having worked for a Mitsubishi dealer a few years back. It may be bias but I've rarely been able to justify the cost of a Toyota 4x4 be it new or used.