Has your ZF milkshaked poll - POST 2012 ONLY

[prydey]

Given this topic keeps on coming up, with no real facts on how prolific it still is, or if it is at all, i thought i'd start a new poll for later model cars only.

This is for falcons and territories (petrol and diesel) manufactured after 2012 only!

this is just a date i plucked out of thin air, but didn't want to exclude too many cars for fear the sample size would be too small and wouldn't provide much of a picture.

If you vote, feel free to also update the thread with your car details and also add whether or not the cooling system has been maintained as per factory recommendations.

Please DO NOT comment if you DO NOT have a car built after 2012. thanks

[ratter]

So cars built from 01 Jan 2013?

[prydey]

It was just a randomly plucked date. Its not a definitive cut off though, so if you have had a failure on a car built late 2012, then feel free to vote, but also comment to clarify the age of your car.

i kept the voting simple, but if all those who vote could also post a comment with their car details, then that would help to paint a clear picture.

[PG2]

As stated here...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...84&postcount=1

FG MKII XR6. Mine did it at 40101ks and 18 months old.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PG2

As stated here...

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showpos...84&postcount=1

FG MKII XR6. Mine did it at 40101ks and 18 months old.

car build date please.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by prydey

car build date please.

1/2012.

[prydey]

Originally Posted by PG2

1/2012.

did you not read the thread title?

[PG2]

Originally Posted by prydey

did you not read the thread title?

I thought it would be relevant to your poll as they are exactly the same car.

Get one of the mods to delete it then. I don't care.

[mike_nofx]

Originally Posted by prydey

did you not read the thread title?

Why so specific with the date, when pre 2013 models are exactly the same?

It seems you're trying to narrow the amount of votes to try skew results to 'prove' a lower failure rate, also evident by dismissing PG2's comment.

If you want a fair sample then allow anyone with FG+ regardless of build month or year to vote and comment.

[M&Ms]

What you should ask, is for those with an FG Mk2 or FGX that have failed, not 'POST 2012'

[prydey]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

What you should ask, is for those with an FG Mk2 or FGX that have failed, not 'POST 2012'

I didn't realize it was such a difficult concept. Clearly I was wrong.

This wasn't about particular models, but rather trying to establish whether the situation is any different in more recent times.

[deesun]

Please remove my vote, yes I read it but I am a stupid male and took no notice, my car too early. Sorry.

[Silver Ghia]

I'm trying to work out whether the reliability of the heat exchanger bolted to the side of the engine near the starter motor is being determined here, or heat exchangers as a whole.

Territory diesels don't have a heat exchanger like those in the petrol vehicles. Like the V8's, they have the heat exchanger in the radiator. But different radiators I suspect. And they use a different, longer life coolant.

So perhaps Diesel Territories and V8's should be excluded from this poll?

[GO FURTHER]

There is another poll like this one still going with 557 votes so far.

"Do you own a ZF equipped Falcon and have you had it Milkshake?"

68 Yes votes to 484 No votes

Here.....

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...37#post5891137

[olds]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

There is another poll like this one still going with 557 votes so far.

"Do you own a ZF equipped Falcon and have you had it Milkshake?"

68 Yes votes to 484 No votes

Here.....

http://www.fordforums.com.au/showthr...37#post5891137

It all comes down to engineering and if the Geelong engineers were any good the pole should show 552 No 0 yes .They have had plenty of time and enough examples of this FAULT to come up with a fix

[prydey]

Originally Posted by olds

They have had plenty of time and enough examples of this FAULT to come up with a fix

what evidence do you have that they haven't done so in the last few years?

[olds]

Originally Posted by prydey

what evidence do you have that they haven't done so in the last few years?

Because it still occurs

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by olds

It all comes down to engineering and if the Geelong engineers were any good the pole should show 552 No 0 yes .They have had plenty of time and enough examples of this FAULT to come up with a fix

But then again... All things in life that are man made will eventually fail... Nothing is forever in this world.

Your trans will eventually wear out and fail, as will your engine, coils, exhaust, and just about every other mechanical part.

The problem is premature failure of the heat exchanger means a very expensive ZF repair compared to replacing or fixing the damage caused by other mechanical parts failing in other areas ( not transmission).

The point however, has nothing to do with "good engineering" ... Ford was well aware of the OEM heat exchanger failures, and were even recommended a better design by the parent ZF company in Germany.

But Ford did not want to spend the extra money per unit on a car with falling sales in the FG - FGX series.

[olds]

Originally Posted by BAXRSIX

But then again... All things in life that are man made will eventually fail... Nothing is forever in this world.

Your trans will eventually wear out and fail, as will your engine, coils, exhaust, and just about every other mechanical part.

The problem is premature failure of the heat exchanger means a very expensive ZF repair compared to replacing or fixing the damage caused by other mechanical parts failing in other areas ( not transmission).

The point however, has nothing to do with "good engineering" ... Ford was well aware of the OEM heat exchanger failures, and were even recommended a better design by the parent ZF company in Germany.

But Ford did not want to spend the extra money per unit on a car with falling sales in the FG - FGX series.

I think we all know we are talking about Premature failure. If fraud are " well aware of their products failures "they should instigate a rectification program

[Cav]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

I'm trying to work out whether the reliability of the heat exchanger bolted to the side of the engine near the starter motor is being determined here, or heat exchangers as a whole.

Territory diesels don't have a heat exchanger like those in the petrol vehicles. Like the V8's, they have the heat exchanger in the radiator. But different radiators I suspect. And they use a different, longer life coolant.

So perhaps Diesel Territories and V8's should be excluded from this poll?

I didn't know that.

But then again I am a dumb Kent

[olfella]

Originally Posted by Cav

I didn't know that.

But then again I am a dumb Kent

Well I know that!

[Mont5.0]

How many Milkshake threads does it take to change a heat exchanger?

[GO FURTHER]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

How many Milkshake threads does it take to change a heat exchanger?

And how many Milkshake threads does it take to decide on what to change it to.

[olds]

Originally Posted by Mont5.0

How many Milkshake threads does it take to change a heat exchanger?

Should be
Q:how many engineers does it take to stop a Milkshake
A: More than Fraud Aus. has got

[mike_nofx]

Milkshakes have been an issue since the BA at least.

Not being a milkshake fan I fitted a radiator with stainless cooler to my BA, and on the BF I removed the heat exchanger and fitted a stand alone transmission cooler.

So from 2002 - 2016, 14 years of crappy transmission coolers in Falcons.

[Vesper Martini]

^^ Posting stuff like that on an open Forum suggests it might be the Pot calling the kettle black

[Silver Ghia]

Thanks George. From the correspondence you received from ZF (assumed accurately copied), I only read that the cooler temperature is beneficial for extending the service life of the oil, no mention of the transmission life being extended with the lower operating temperatures, that you may have stated in your query to ZF.

And I note that 30^oC to 120^oC is normal transmission operating temperature based on the warmup and high temperature strategies inherent in the transmission operation, and is perhaps not the optimal operating temperature range as you state.

[BFIIGhiaZF6]

Originally Posted by Silver Ghia

Thanks George. From the correspondence you received from ZF (assumed accurately copied), I only read that the cooler temperature is beneficial for extending the service life of the oil, no mention of the transmission life being extended with the lower operating temperatures, that you may have stated in your query to ZF.

And I note that 30^oC to 120^oC is normal transmission operating temperature based on the warmup and high temperature strategies inherent in the transmission operation, and is perhaps not the optimal operating temperature range as you state.

The email is an exact copy, but it is not as detailed as what our conversation was, you only have my word that the conversation was as I stated, but, that is categorically what the tech told me, I can assure you I was very pleasantly surprised to hear what he had to say, the ZF6 is designed to operate at temps as low as -20C, 30C is only its minimum optimum operating temp for maximum fuel economy, not its minimum operating temp, and warm up strategy is designed in to the ZF6 programming to get it to 30C quickly, he told me without reservation that removing the heat exchanger and installing an air/oil cooler would extend the life of the fluid and the trans.

You can put your own spin on it if you wish, but I have posted exactly what was stated in our discussion

[Silver Ghia]

Originally Posted by gmoughton

The email is an exact copy, but it is not as detailed as what our conversation was, you only have my word that the conversation was as I stated, but, that is categorically what the tech told me, I can assure you I was very pleasantly surprised to hear what he had to say, the ZF6 is designed to operate at temps as low as -20C, 30C is only its minimum optimum operating temp for maximum fuel economy, not its minimum operating temp, and warm up strategy is designed in to the ZF6 programming to get it to 30C quickly, he told me without reservation that removing the heat exchanger and installing an air/oil cooler would extend the life of the fluid and the trans.

You can put your own spin on it if you wish, but I have posted exactly what was stated in our discussion

I'm only going by the message from ZF that you posted George, no spin at all. You're not understanding what I wrote above. It now seems you have had verbal discussion as well? Its not what you posted earlier..

Seems you're the one putting spin on it George.

[richo77]

Havent posted in a while but I had my 2012 G6ET transmission serviced yesterday at 90k. I bought the parts 6 x1L ZF fluid @ $180, genuine Ford upgraded cooler (stamped late 2016) @ $230 and a Ryco trans service kit @ $30. Labour @ $200 from Technical Transmissions in Perth. Great job by them there, they know their stuff.

Old fluid was still pretty golden but the trans shifts like brand new again and more quiet. I'm keeping the car for another 2 years at most so a full external set up isnt justified for me.