Holden closure

[BroadyFord]

Given that it's likely GM Holden will announce closure at some point in the very near future, is it possible to have a thread dedicated to the issue which isn't shut down after a day?

There are so many media articles which I'd like to post but each thread related to the issue is closed only after a short period.

Acting PM demands answers from Holden

http://www.goauto.com.au/mellor/mell...257C3D0022A7F2

ANOTHER fiery question time in Canberra this afternoon has resulted in acting prime minister Warren Truss writing a letter demanding that GM Holden declare its investment intentions “immediately”.

The letter came only hours after GM Holden chairman and managing director Mike Devereux told the Productivity Commission that General Motors had not yet made a decision on whether to progress with a planned $1 billion investment in two new models to be made at its Elizabeth assembly plant in South Australia from 2016.

An industry source close to Holden has told GoAuto that the letter is being seen as a further gathering of the clouds around the federal government’s intentions towards the car industry.

The source said the apparently extraordinary decision to make the letter public – it was circulated on a press release distribution site – was actually done to ensure it got into the media, in a bid to discredit the company and the industry.

In the letter, Mr Truss claims that the federal government wants the automotive industry to thrive and flourish.

He lists the budget allocations made available to the industry in recent years and cites the Abbott government’s decision to reverse the Rudd government’s decision to tighten the fringe benefits tax regulations as evidence of its support.

Mr Truss also points out that in 2011 General Motors said that it had achieved “sustained profitability in Australia”, although this is believed to include the company’s importing business as well as it local manufacturing.

“Yet since last week there have been successive reports that General Motors has made a decision to end its Australian operation but has postponed an announcement until next year,” Mr Truss wrote.

He noted Mr Devereux’s statement to the Productivity Commission earlier today, but accused him of “failing to provide a commitment that Holden will remain in Australia well into the future”.

The letter says this creates uncertainty for Holden’s workers, their families and the supply chain.

“It is the Australian government’s view that GM Holden must immediately provide a clear explanation of its future intentions and explain what its plans are for its Australian manufacturing operations,” Mr Truss wrote.

“An immediate clarification of GM Holden’s future plans is needed to end the uncertainty for Holden’s workforce, its suppliers and the people of Australia.”

Holden has regularly said it will not commit to the $1 billion plan until the future assistance arrangements are made public and deemed suitable.

A Holden source told GoAuto this afternoon that the company was not likely to make a formal response to the letter.

Industry minister Ian Macfarlane is being described by the Canberra press gallery as the lone voice at the federal government’s cabinet table in support of providing more taxpayer assistance to the Australian car industry.

[BroadyFord]

Another.

Warren Truss turns screws, demanding Holden reveals decision

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...210-2z3mt.html

The Abbott government has raised the already intense pressure on Holden, with the acting Prime Minister urging the car maker's boss to “immediately” say whether the company will stay in Australia.
The letter, sent by Warren Truss to Holden managing director Mike Devereux on Tuesday, escalates the government's demands for the management of General Motors Holden to put an end to uncertainty.
It comes as Mr Devereux denies a decision has been taken to leave Australia.
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“It is the Australian government's view that GM Holden must immediately provide a clear explanation of its future intentions and explain what its plans are for its manufacturing operations,” Mr Truss writes in the letter.
“An immediate clarification of GM Holden's future plans is needed to end the uncertainty for Holden's workforce, its suppliers and the people of Australia.”
Senior cabinet ministers have been fuelling speculation about Holden's departure, telling journalists in off-the-record briefings that the car maker has already decided to leave Australia and “doesn't want to be saved”.
Mr Devereux has rejected the speculation and told a Productivity Commission inquiry on Tuesday that no decision had been made and the car maker still wanted to manufacture vehicles in Australia.
Industry Minister Ian Macfarlane is the only member the Abbott cabinet making a vocal case to increase government funding for Holden. A dominant group of MPs, known as economic "dries" and led by Treasurer Joe Hockey, are determined to cut off the funding for Holden and leave management to their own devices.
Asked in question time about Mr Devereux’s comment that the cost of losing the local car manufacturing industry would dwarf the cost of keeping it, Mr Hockey said: ‘‘There is no shortage of money that has been going to the motor manufacturing industry.’’
The Treasurer said $1.1 billion was given to the sector in 2011 - equating to about $48,000 per manufacturing worker - and another $1 billion had been put on the table.
‘‘There is a hell of a lot of industries in Australia that would love to get the assistance that the motor vehicle industry is getting,’’ Mr Hockey told Parliament.
Prime Minister Tony Abbott appears to have accepted that view, saying last week there would be “no more money” for Holden. He has so far ignored pressured from unions, Labor and the Victorian Liberal government, to restore the $500 million he cut from the previous government's automotive assistance fund.
But on Tuesday, the Victorian government attacked its federal Coalition counterpart for cutting $500 million in assistance to the car industry, saying Mr Abbott should reinstate the money.
Manufacturing Minister David Hodgett joined South Australia's attack on the federal government, saying it was not helpful when cabinet ministers were “speculating on the future of Holden”.
Asked whether the government should return the $500 million it was removing from the automotive fund, Mr Hodgett said, "That's what we're asking", adding that he would be asking the Prime Minister to fund the industry for another decade.
“Make no mistake,” Mr Hodgett said, “we will leave no stone unturned to advocate very, very strongly for continued Commonwealth assistance so that [Victoria's] auto industry can continue.
“We believe that Commonwealth assistance should continue over the next 10 years,” Mr Hodgett told Fairfax Media's Breaking Politics on Tuesday.
Asked later on Tuesday whether the Victorian government would be prepared to contribute more money to save Holden, Mr Hodgett told Sky News: "The short answer is of course we would."

[BroadyFord]

And another.

Victoria turns on federal government, calling for return of $500m car cash

http://www.theage.com.au/federal-pol...210-2z33o.html

The Victorian government has attacked its federal Coalition counterpart for cutting $500 million in assistance to the car industry, saying Tony Abbott should reinstate the money.
Manufacturing Minister David Hodgett joined South Australia's attack on the federal government, saying it was not helpful when cabinet ministers were “speculating on the future of Holden”.
Asked whether the government should return the $500 million it was removing from the automotive fund, Mr Hodgett said "That's what we're asking," adding that he would be asking the Prime Minister to fund the industry for another decade.
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“Make no mistake,” Mr Hodgett said, “we will leave no stone unturned to advocate very, very strongly for continued Commonwealth assistance so that [Victoria's] auto industry can continue.
“We believe that Commonwealth assistance should continue over the next 10 years,” Mr Hodgett told Fairfax Media's Breaking Politics on Tuesday.
Asked later on Tuesday whether the Victorian government would be prepared to contribute more money to save Holden, Mr Hodgett told Sky News: "The short answer is of course we would."
The Liberal minister's comments come as Holden managing director Mike Devereux told the Productivity Commission on Tuesday that speculation was wrong that the company had already decided to leave Australia.
The South Australian and Victorian governments, whose states stand to lose tens of thousands of jobs if the automotive industry leaves Australia, are stepping up their campaigns to convince Mr Abbott to inject more money into the ailing industry.
South Australian Premier Jay Weatherill is expected to travel to Canberra on Thursday to meet with the Prime Minister, in a last-ditch effort to secure more money to keep Holden building cars in Adelaide.
"That's the demand, it's been made absolutely clear and there is now nowhere to hide for the federal government," Mr Weatherill told reporters on Tuesday.
"Mr Devereux has given the clearest of possible indication that Holden is not going to close and they want to continue making cars in Australia."
In pointed comments directed at his federal colleagues, Mr Hodgett said the Victorian government would continue to argue strongly to convince sceptical members of the Abbott cabinet that the government should do more for the automotive sector.
Mr Abbott ruled out offering more money to Holden in strong comments last week, and his cabinet colleagues have been giving anonymous briefings to journalists saying General Motors has already decided to leave Australia and “doesn't want to be saved”.
A spokesman for Victorian Premier Denis Napthine said he would not be commenting after Mr Abbott told Fairfax Radio last week that there would be no extra money for the car companies, and that his government would stick to its $500 million cut to the Automotive Transformation Scheme.
Mr Hodgett said the Victorian government would “continue to lobby as hard as [it] possibly can our federal colleagues”.
“The consistent message coming out of Holden is that they've made no decision to exit Australia.
“If a decision has already been made, why would Holden be fronting up to the Productivity Commission to put their case to maintain manufacturing here in Australia?”
He said Holden's decision could affect about 25,000 jobs in Victoria, two-thirds of which are in the supply chain.
Australian-made cars make up only 10.3 per cent of the 1.1 million vehicles sold in Australia annually, a record low for an industry that is on the brink.
Before the latest speculation Toyota and Holden had asked their workers to take pay cuts to reduce the cost of manufacturing cars by about $3800 per unit to ensure the Australian operations are commercially competitive with other plants from the same car makers around the world.
If Holden were to stop manufacturing cars in Australia, it would almost certainly force Toyota to follow suit because the 160 components manufacturers that are vital to the industry would not be able to achieve economies of scale.

[AU1XLS]

Probably not given that all the adults possessed by 8 yr olds will probably resort to name calling and personal insults at the drop of a hat

[stevz]

Wow. This Abbott government is making the previous Labor government look like geniuses. Just as I thought - they said whatever it took to get into power and now they are doing nothing. The death of the Australian auto industry will be on their watch. How can these clowns be demanding answers from Holden when they are giving no answers themselves?

[ute83]

Originally Posted by stevz

Wow. This Abbott government is making the previous Labor government look like geniuses. Just as I thought - they said whatever it took to get into power and now they are doing nothing. The death of the Australian auto industry will be on their watch. How can these clowns be demanding answers from Holden when they are giving no answers themselves?

Yep just like Mitsubishi closed under labor and ford announced their closure also under labor.
From what I make of all this is that Holden want the tax payer to pay the labour costs of making cars here.

[EBII Fairmont]

Originally Posted by stevz

Wow. This Abbott government is making the previous Labor government look like geniuses. Just as I thought - they said whatever it took to get into power and now they are doing nothing. The death of the Australian auto industry will be on their watch. How can these clowns be demanding answers from Holden when they are giving no answers themselves?

In the end, all the libs really promised was to get rid of the carbon tax. They came in with no real policies. When a Lib member was point blank asked what policies they had on Q&A other than removing the carbon tax, there was no answer. At the same time Labor came with little to the table to.

As for Holden. It's not a matter of if, but when will they shut down. Australia's economy is not in the greatest shape and people are still reluctant to be spending money like 10 years ago when times were good. A big mistake was the government purchasing cars other than Australian made. What sort of message were they sending about the local product if they were spending money on imported car?

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by stevz

Wow. This Abbott government is making the previous Labor government look like geniuses. Just as I thought - they said whatever it took to get into power and now they are doing nothing. The death of the Australian auto industry will be on their watch. How can these clowns be demanding answers from Holden when they are giving no answers themselves?

I dont understand why people think this has anything to do with Australian politics. The business cases are floored until the products are intergrated into aglobal platform, thats all to hard for Americans even though the Germans do it quite well.

This has nothing to do with puppets, its bottom lines.

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Polyal

I dont understand why people think this has anything to do with Australian politics. The business cases are floored until the products are intergrated into aglobal platform, thats all to hard for Americans even though the Germans do it quite well.

This has nothing to do with puppets, its bottom lines.

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

[cheap]

Originally Posted by stevz

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

Oh that's right the coalition that's been in power for 3 months, having inherited a friggin mess of an economy from the previous demigods - it's the coalitions fault.

ALP's CO2 tax, that helped, or ALP's changes to FBT/car leasing, that obviously helped GMH and boosted sales of Aussie cars?

Add the unions along with the ALP, partners in crime playing politics, now stalling the repeal of the CO2 tax in the senate, they're hell bent on causing as much trouble as possible - but it's all the coalitions fault.

Add the blatant anti-Abbott news led by Fairfax and ABC (both leftie mouth pieces), their rubbish is now wholesale gospel - everything is the coalitions fault.

Add GMH, who play the politics very well and milk the taxpayer for as much as possible.

But go on and believe what you want...

[Polyal]

Originally Posted by stevz

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

The key difference is that the "others" sell cars that people want. Its the business case and the direction of the companies that makes the difference.

The investment needed to make a car competitive is too large for cars sold soley in one country to sustain...thats all it is. The politicians rotate through and it makes very little diffrence.

To GMHs credit they actually gave the platform a chance, more so than Ford ever did. Difference is that Ford realised it and mde the decision sooner which in theory helps all involved in the long run.

You can give them all the concessions you like, if they dont have volume then it wont work.

[GT2]

Originally Posted by stevz

It has everything to do with government. Smart nations around the world subsidise and protect their automotive industries with well designed policies, allowing them to prosper.
This bunch of arrogant, inept and dithering wreckers that is the coalition government will do more damage to our economy in one term than previous governments have done in 30 years. They may not see the loss of the auto industry as a big deal, but the ripple effect of it is going to be felt for decades to come.

I agree with subsidising industry, but you can't use tax payer funding to subsidise an industry that rampant unions have destroyed. Have you read the Grace Collier story?
The smart countries also subsidise an industry that builds export product, not a couple of thousand pieces a month for local consumption.

[Nikked]

Mind you, it was previous governments that help bury the industry...(not that im saying it was governments alone...)

[stevz]

Originally Posted by Nikked

Mind you, it was previous governments that help bury the industry...(not that im saying it was governments alone...)

Yeah, it was the Howard government who signed the original FTA with Thailand wasn't it?

[Bowser22]

Originally Posted by BroadyFord

Given that it's likely GM Holden will announce closure at some point in the very near future, is it possible to have a thread dedicated to the issue which isn't shut down after a day?

There are so many media articles which I'd like to post but each thread related to the issue is closed only after a short period.

A no comment thread???
Current and future articles only or are past articles inclusive?

[Road Games]

And so on it goes Gary must have a crystal ball ...

[stevz]

From what I understand, Holden has made its position clear in that it would like to continue manufacturing here provided it receives further funding. What further answers do these clowns need? Even their own Victorian counterparts are turning against them.
Just a thought, would it be possible for the states to chip in to create a fund and bypass the federal govt altogether?

[BroadyFord]

Originally Posted by stevz

Just a thought, would it be possible for the states to chip in to create a fund and bypass the federal govt altogether?

This.

[b0son]

Originally Posted by stevz

would it be possible for the states to chip in to create a fund and bypass the federal govt altogether?

God knows they've raised more than enough from speed cameras.

[GT2]

[QUOTE=stevz;4960079]From what I understand, Holden has made its position clear in that it would like to continue manufacturing here provided it receives further funding. What further answers do these clowns need?

What happens when commodore sales decline further, say to the current Falcon levels. The amount of funding will need to increase so do you continue further funding?

Where in the world can you set up a company and make a product that the market isn't particularly keen on, not turn a profit, and ask local tax payers for a subsidy so that you can return a profit to your parent company back home?

[LukeGT]

[QUOTE=GT2;4960170]

Originally Posted by stevz

From what I understand, Holden has made its position clear in that it would like to continue manufacturing here provided it receives further funding. What further answers do these clowns need?

Where in the world can you set up a company and make a product that the market isn't particularly keen on, not turn a profit, and ask local tax payers for a subsidy so that you can return a profit to your parent company back home?

Totally agree. Fair enough, a one off or short term bailout package to ensure a large company can escape closure and continue trading long into the future, but I don't want to be paying taxes so other people can buy commodores, let them buy huyndais instead and spend my taxes on education, hospitals, infrastructure etc.

[UberKnee]

[QUOTE=GT2;4960170]

Originally Posted by stevz

From what I understand, Holden has made its position clear in that it would like to continue manufacturing here provided it receives further funding. What further answers do these clowns need?

What happens when commodore sales decline further, say to the current Falcon levels. The amount of funding will need to increase so do you continue further funding?

Where in the world can you set up a company and make a product that the market isn't particularly keen on, not turn a profit, and ask local tax payers for a subsidy so that you can return a profit to your parent company back home?

They received a billion dollars of funding but still cried poor and begged for more.

[flooded one]

[QUOTE=UberKnee;4960188]

Originally Posted by GT2

They received a billion dollars of funding but still cried poor and begged for more.

yep and they got the most of the three manufactures and still have the least local content in there cars. given the amount Holden has received.... shouldn't they have the most local content??

[stevz]

They are requesting a co-investment of $500 million to which GM will be investing a further $1b of their own money into Australia. This includes the development of a new vehicle alongside Commodore and Cruze, which is rumoured to be a small suv, so they are at least attempting to make vehicles that people "want".
For every dollar the govt gives in assistance, they get $6 back in revenue and increased economic activity. This is not just 'propping them up so people can buy Commodores'. We need to stop being so short sighted and look at the big picture. The Australian taxpayer and economy will be far worse off with Holden gone and will make a few hundred million in subsidies look like a drop in the ocean in comparison.

[WayneHadfield]

Originally Posted by GT2

Where in the world can you set up a company and make a product that the market isn't particularly keen on, not turn a profit, and ask local tax payers for a subsidy so that you can return a profit to your parent company back home?

Pretty much every country in the world with an automotive manufacturing base.

[Dodge]

the 500 mill will have to go towards dole cheques for the unemployed factory workers the other 500 mill will feed a few CEOs for a year or 2

[BroadyFord]

I'm going to be monitoring my twitter very carefully from now on until I see:

"BREAKING: Holden to make "important announcement" regarding its future in Australia this morning/afternoon"

...or something similar.

[Fordman]

I'm just glad the attentions off Ford. Perhaps a good move to come out early in hind sight.

I think the media advertising that each holden is 2,500 of tax payers money actually makes people more angry.

[Rob 351]

Surely with all this crap going on is only hurting sales of Commodore & Cruze. Why the hell won't GM just confirm what we all know already???
Typical GM & Holden!!!! Always trying to pass the blame....

[UberKnee]

It is funny how everyone thinks of Holden as being ridgy didge Australia, yet Toyota have more Australian components in their Aussie made cars.