10 years since GM announced they would cease making cars in Australia

[Syndrome]

Hard to believe today is 10 years since this announcement.

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2013-12-...y-2017/5150034

I predicted this would occur when Ford announced in 2012 they were ceasing production in Australia. At that time people were rubbishing my claim saying Ford were only closing because they made shyte cars. Holden on the other hand made "good" cars and were here to stay.

As a 2 decade veteran working at a large, high tech tier 1 supplier to Ford, Holden, Mitsubishi and Toyota, I understood that Ford needed Holden and vice versa to justify the expense of designing and building unique cars for Australia. Once one ended local production the other was likely to follow.

In early 2018 it was clear GM's move to make Holden 100% imported vehicles was not going well. In early 2018 I questioned if the Holden brand would survive. But GM leaving Australia was not something I thought was a real possibility.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showthread.php?t=11471430

However as I write this I still cannot believe that GM decided that it was all too difficult and exited the Australian market altogether. I am fairly confident in saying that 10 years ago today nobody predicted that the Holden brand would be dead by now.

This demonstrates to me how little the parent companies knew or understood the Australia car market. Holden imploded very quickly once the last VF rolled off the assembly line.

Ford would be in a similar position if the Ranger wasn't selling so well.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Ford would be in a similar position if the Ranger wasn't selling so well.

But it “isnt” because the Ranger IS selling so well.

Holden was a one trick Pony with the Australian made Commodore.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Fordman1

But it “isnt” because the Ranger IS selling so well.

Holden was a one trick Pony with the Australian made Commodore.

But then so was Ford with the Falcon.

The difference is, Ford took the gamble on investing into a sector of the marker that was showing signs of growth, the PX Ranger hit the market and Ford never looked back.

Holden invested in a model and category that had imploded in the lead up to its release, the ZB tanked not necessarily because of the FWD thing, rather it was the wrong vehicle.

[Rallye Sport]

If only they'd had the foresight to translate the Volt into a Camry hybrid competitor that could be produced locally.

I was with the motorkhana club at the driver training centre, on the main track next door the EV society, in its infancy, was doing a test day on the main track. $10 a pop got you a drive of the Prius, Leaf, MIEV and Volt. Cheap fun we thought lets have a go
The Volt was head and shoulders above the rest in terms of build, performance and tech, the playstation dash and controls were like nothing we'd ever seen but thats standard kit nowadays. Visually, from the outside, it even looked pretty good too.
Opportunity lost in my opinion.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

...

Ford would be in a similar position if the Ranger wasn't selling so well.

I think that this where Holden went wrong.

Holden thought that they could pass off a 4cyl FWD as a Commodore and people would blindly buy them. Don't get me wrong, the ZB was a great car in it's own right, but a Commodore it was not.

What Holden should have done was invested in Colorado. Series I RG Colorados were pigs. The Series II were not a bad vehicle - we bought one brand new which now has 167k and never been in for any sort of warranty.

People can hate on dual cabs until their heart is content. but the cold hard facts are that dual cabs are what Australians buy these days.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

I think that this where Holden went wrong.

Holden thought that they could pass off a 4cyl FWD as a Commodore and people would blindly buy them. Don't get me wrong, the ZB was a great car in it's own right, but a Commodore it was not.

What Holden should have done was invested in Colorado. Series I RG Colorados were pigs. The Series II were not a bad vehicle - we bought one brand new which now has 167k and never been in for any sort of warranty.

People can hate on dual cabs until their heart is content. but the cold hard facts are that dual cabs are what Australians buy these days.*

*Because of favorable tax concessions,

Put LCT on them and remove the FBT exemptions and you'll find their sales decrease significantly,

Give the same favorable tax concessions to EVs or things like free rego and watch everyone jump ship.

Or remove the government interference in the market, no more tax payer funded subsidies on LCT/FBT and see what the market really wants.

[PG2]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

*Because of favorable tax concessions,

Put LCT on them and remove the FBT exemptions and you'll find their sales decrease significantly,

Give the same favorable tax concessions to EVs or things like free rego and watch everyone jump ship.

Or remove the government interference in the market, no more tax payer funded subsidies on LCT/FBT and see what the market really wants.

I was waiting for your post.

Re-read my post in the context it was made. Any number of reasons, including the ones you listed, are why Australians are buying dual cabs. The cold hard facts are that Holden invested in a car that nobody wanted.

We are talking about 10 years ago, EVs were barely even mentioned.

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by PG2

I was waiting for your post.

Re-read my post in the context it was made. Any number of reasons, including the ones you listed, are why Australians are buying dual cabs. The cold hard facts are that Holden invested in a car that nobody wanted.

We are talking about 10 years ago, EVs were barely even mentioned.

10 years ago the only EVs were the Nissan Leaf and Mitsubishi i-MiEV. Meh.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by PG2

I was waiting for your post.

Re-read my post in the context it was made. Any number of reasons, including the ones you listed, are why Australians are buying dual cabs. The cold hard facts are that Holden invested in a car that nobody wanted.

We are talking about 10 years ago, EVs were barely even mentioned.

I'm not disagreeing with you about the ZB 'Commodore', I'm pointing out the reason why those particular cars are popular is because of Australian tax payers subsidising Thailand's manufacturing industry - those favorable tax concessions date back further than 10 years also.

My point about EVs is that the moment something else scores exemptions from taxes people will flock to those vehicles too, it doesn't matter if its Thailand Specials/EVs/SUVs et al the market is being interfered with.

Holden's demise started when they switched sourcing cars from Opel to ****boxes from Daewoo to save cents in the dollar - that was the start of the end, because they had nothing worth buying aside from the Commodore.

When was the last time someone saw an Epica or a Captiva on the roads? I haven't seen a single Captiva on Melbourne's roads in over 12 months because they're probably all stacked 10 high at the tip.

[kevino]

[QUOTE=Franco Cozzo;6858037]I'm not disagreeing with you about the ZB 'Commodore', I'm pointing out the reason why those particular cars are popular is because of Australian tax payers subsidising Thailand's manufacturing industry - those favorable tax concessions date back further than 10 years also.

My point about EVs is that the moment something else scores exemptions from taxes people will flock to those vehicles too, it doesn't matter if its Thailand Specials/EVs/SUVs et al the market is being interfered with.

Holden's demise started when they switched sourcing cars from Opel to ****boxes from Daewoo to save cents in the dollar - that was the start of the end, because they had nothing worth buying aside from the Commodore.

When was the last time someone saw an Epica or a Captiva on the roads? I haven't seen a single Captiva on Melbourne's roads in over 12 months because they're probably all stacked 10 high at the tip.[/QUOTE
Crsptiva s on the Gc yes today

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

When was the last time someone saw an Epica or a Captiva on the roads? I haven't seen a single Captiva on Melbourne's roads in over 12 months because they're probably all stacked 10 high at the tip.

Unfortunately I see them nearly every week, don't worry though I am doing my best to make sure they are written off with some creative quoting, even if its only 1 at a time

[Itsme]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

I'm not disagreeing with you about the ZB 'Commodore', I'm pointing out the reason why those particular cars are popular is because of Australian tax payers subsidising Thailand's manufacturing industry - those favorable tax concessions date back further than 10 years also.

My point about EVs is that the moment something else scores exemptions from taxes people will flock to those vehicles too, it doesn't matter if its Thailand Specials/EVs/SUVs et al the market is being interfered with.

Holden's demise started when they switched sourcing cars from Opel to ****boxes from Daewoo to save cents in the dollar - that was the start of the end, because they had nothing worth buying aside from the Commodore.

When was the last time someone saw an Epica or a Captiva on the roads? I haven't seen a single Captiva on Melbourne's roads in over 12 months because they're probably all stacked 10 high at the tip.

I live out in the western suburbs of Melbourne and see heaps of Captiva's on the roads with the odd Epica darting about.

Must be all the shift workers who own them as I see them in the wee hours of early morning.

[smoo]

Originally Posted by PG2

I think that this where Holden went wrong.

Holden thought that they could pass off a 4cyl FWD as a Commodore and people would blindly buy them. Don't get me wrong, the ZB was a great car in it's own right, but a Commodore it was not.

What Holden should have done was invested in Colorado. Series I RG Colorados were pigs. The Series II were not a bad vehicle - we bought one brand new which now has 167k and never been in for any sort of warranty.

People can hate on dual cabs until their heart is content. but the cold hard facts are that dual cabs are what Australians buy these days.

Maybe Holden could have ditched money spent on ZB R & D, and attempting to assemble Cruze locally and instead fitted V8s to the Colorado and the SUV equivalent alongside the diesel as some type of Raptor version, and maybe imported/converted and sold Camaro, Corvette, Silverado, Suburban.

[kevino]

Originally Posted by PG2

I think that this where Holden went wrong.

Holden thought that they could pass off a 4cyl FWD as a Commodore and people would blindly buy them. Don't get me wrong, the ZB was a great car in it's own right, but a Commodore it was not.

What Holden should have done was invested in Colorado. Series I RG Colorados were pigs. The Series II were not a bad vehicle - we bought one brand new which now has 167k and never been in for any sort of warranty.

People can hate on dual cabs until their heart is content. but the cold hard facts are that dual cabs are what Australians buy these days.

I saw a few Zb wagons today and thought they looked terrific in a sea of mediocrity

[Syndrome]

This thread makes amusing reading of the days prior to the official announcement

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showth...ghlight=Holden

[Syndrome]

And this one

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showth...ghlight=Holden

[prktkljokr]

I can believe its 10 years, try buying new parts for a series 2 VF Commodore and you can see that GM does not give a toss about Holden or its ongoing parts supply.

I waited 5 months for a back ordered series 2 lower grille ( none second hand ), only to be told that Amcap have roughly 500 on backorder and no ETA whatsoever, the grille lists at $165 for us so not a big dollar item, but I ended up having to buy a non painted second from a wrecker in Vic for $770 with freight it rounded out at $900, then had to repair a blemish and have it painted, so the customer could have their car back.

I thought this problem might be isolated to the VF, but there are plenty of other Holden models we cant get parts for, 2018 Colorado front bumper cover a couple of weeks ago was on back order no ETA, Cruise grille the same, insurance companies will write more of them off now if you cant get parts for them.

It feels like they have been gone for 20 years

[Syndrome]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

I can believe its 10 years, try buying new parts for a series 2 VF Commodore and you can see that GM does not give a toss about Holden or its ongoing parts supply.

I waited 5 months for a back ordered series 2 lower grille ( none second hand ), only to be told that Amcap have roughly 500 on backorder and no ETA whatsoever, the grille lists at $165 for us so not a big dollar item, but I ended up having to buy a non painted second from a wrecker in Vic for $770 with freight it rounded out at $900, then had to repair a blemish and have it painted, so the customer could have their car back.

I thought this problem might be isolated to the VF, but there are plenty of other Holden models we cant get parts for, 2018 Colorado front bumper cover a couple of weeks ago was on back order no ETA, Cruise grille the same, insurance companies will write more of them off now if you cant get parts for them.

It feels like they have been gone for 20 years

Australian law states that all vehicle retailers must offer spare parts for 10 years after the last car was produced for this market. If parts are in short supply after only 6 years tells me care factor is zero and GM will abandon this obligation as soon as we reach the end of 2027. It is not like they will lose any sales!

[XR Martin]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

Australian law states that all vehicle retailers must offer spare parts for 10 years after the last car was produced for this market. If parts are in short supply after only 6 years tells me care factor is zero and GM will abandon this obligation as soon as we reach the end of 2027. It is not like they will lose any sales!

There's actually no law which states that.

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

Originally Posted by XR Martin

There's actually no law which states that.

Agreed, the old '10 years' is a myth:

Under the Australian Consumer Law, certain consumer guarantees apply automatically, including that manufacturers will make repair facilities and spare parts available for a reasonable amount of time.

Manufacturers guarantee to take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities - a place that can fix the consumer’s products - for a reasonable time after purchase.

If the manufacturer does not have an office in Australia, the importer takes on these responsibilities.

How much time is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the circumstances and the type of products. For instance it:

would be reasonable to expect that tyres for a new car will be available for a number of years after its purchase
may not be reasonable to expect that spare parts for an inexpensive children’s toy are available at all.
A manufacturer does not have to meet the guarantee on repairs and spare parts if they advised the consumer in writing, at or before the time of purchase, that repair facilities and spare parts would not be available, or would not be available after a specified time.

From https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/cons...ot-be-repaired

[XR6Runner]

Originally Posted by FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0

Agreed, the old '10 years' is a myth:

Under the Australian Consumer Law, certain consumer guarantees apply automatically, including that manufacturers will make repair facilities and spare parts available for a reasonable amount of time.

Manufacturers guarantee to take reasonable steps to provide spare parts and repair facilities - a place that can fix the consumer’s products - for a reasonable time after purchase.

If the manufacturer does not have an office in Australia, the importer takes on these responsibilities.

How much time is ‘reasonable’ will depend on the circumstances and the type of products. For instance it:

would be reasonable to expect that tyres for a new car will be available for a number of years after its purchase
may not be reasonable to expect that spare parts for an inexpensive children’s toy are available at all.
A manufacturer does not have to meet the guarantee on repairs and spare parts if they advised the consumer in writing, at or before the time of purchase, that repair facilities and spare parts would not be available, or would not be available after a specified time.

From https://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/cons...ot-be-repaired

Exactly correct!

We had a 2016 XR8 5.0 with the supercharger, needed to replace the throttle body gasket, and can't get one from Ford anymore, they've been made ONR (Obsolete Not Replaced). No dealer in all of Australia has them in stock, can't get them anymore. And 2016 is only 7 years old.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

This demonstrates to me how little the parent companies knew or understood the Australia car market. Holden imploded very quickly once the last VF rolled off the assembly line.

Ford would be in a similar position if the Ranger wasn't selling so well.

This 100%!

They way GM dealt with Holden was disgraceful. But then, GM have a long history of destroying car brands, in particular ones outside of the US. They also have short memories, making the same mistakes over and over.

[willo56]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

They way GM dealt with Holden was disgraceful. But then, GM have a long history of destroying car brands, in particular ones outside of the US. They also have short memories, making the same mistakes over and over.

Correct - GM was pulling out of all RHD markets worldwide as a global strategy but i wish they couldve sold the brand off like they did with Vauxhall to PSA in 2017 though instead of burying the brand

Originally Posted by arm79

.. researched the Button Plan, how expensive it is to manufacture in Australia and the local plants poor forward planning. End of local manufacture was a foregone conclusion to me...

Yep all Aus manufacturing was in decline since the 70s/80s once the protections were dismantled

We dont make much here anymore and now seems crazy to think they were selling 80K + commo's a year barely 20 years ago

Was a shame the Camaros or CTS-V's were not 'global' LHD/RHD platforms like the mustang was as they wouldve been the spiritual successor to the performance commodores having shared the same running gear for so long

[arm79]

Originally Posted by Syndrome

I predicted this would occur when Ford announced in 2012 they were ceasing production in Australia.

Need to catch up... I predicted it in 2000 or 2001 when I learnt and researched the Button Plan, how expensive it is to manufacture in Australia and the local plants poor forward planning. End of local manufacture was a foregone conclusion to me, although it hung on longer than I thought it would.

Originally Posted by Syndrome

This demonstrates to me how little the parent companies knew or understood the Australia car market. Holden imploded very quickly once the last VF rolled off the assembly line.

No, they understood the Australian market very well. Big sedans were falling out of favour year on year, utes and small cars were taking over, the sales data proves that.

And as much as everyone says "I only buy Aussie", no one would be willing to pay $70k for an SS or $100k for a base HSV, because that's what it would likely take to produce a profitable vehicle without government concessions, tax breaks and substantial tax payer aid. And all this was before our current climate of exponentially increased wages, cost of goods and utilities.

Ford and Holden always had one foot out the door for decades.

On top of that, both vehicles were 10 years old as a design, required at least a $1b investment to upgrade the platform and engines... I take it no one really noticed that the closure of the factories coincided with the move to the next level of emissions requirements, that the current cars couldn't meet.

Only, in the end, to run a factories at less than 1/3 capacity making cars the majority of the public didn't want anymore.

[lra]

Originally Posted by arm79

Ford and Holden always had one foot out the door for decades.

On top of that, both vehicles were 10 years old as a design, required at least a $1b investment to upgrade the platform and engines... I take it no one really noticed that the closure of the factories coincided with the move to the next level of emissions requirements, that the current cars couldn't meet.

Only, in the end, to run a factories at less than 1/3 capacity making cars the majority of the public didn't want anymore.

Spot on.

And if the Falcodore was still being produced, what would it have been today in the woke world of Just Stop Oil, and Chinese EVs, which are both saving the planet from ICE vehicles. (sarcasm)

No, they were both doomed, as the buying public have been told that Falcodores are not what is needed. What we really need as a family car is 2.7 tonne, 7 seater EV costing $100K. (sarcasm again)

Now GM is returning (?) to Australia with EV Cadillacs that will cost more than $100K, and Ford reportedly have cut $7K from the cost of a Mustang Mach E.
There is something just not right about all of this, or are Australians as gullible and dumb as seen by GMFord.

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by Ira

There is something just not right about all of this, or are Australians as gullible and dumb as seen by GMFord.

I think this is pretty close. We collectively embrace a mantra without rigour of questioning the logic. It’s my long-held theory that many Australians (particularly the New Australians, arriving at incredible rates) would rather be (or imagine themselves in) the land of obesity and mass shootings. So it makes perfect sense to ape the vehicle choices of that nation. My greatest offence is taken at the car manufacturers playing our government for fools; “Give us money or we’ll leave”.

[roKWiz]

If this song doesn't make one tear up, you're Un-Australian.

[DFB FGXR6]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

I think this is pretty close. We collectively embrace a mantra without rigour of questioning the logic. It’s my long-held theory that many Australians (particularly the New Australians, arriving at incredible rates) would rather be (or imagine themselves in) the land of obesity and mass shootings. So it makes perfect sense to ape the vehicle choices of that nation. My greatest offence is taken at the car manufacturers playing our government for fools; “Give us money or we’ll leave”.

Originally Posted by arm79

No, they understood the Australian market very well. Big sedans were falling out of favour year on year, utes and small cars were taking over, the sales data proves that.

Ford and Holden always had one foot out the door for decades.

I think GM and Ford knew enough about the local car market in that they knew which buttons to press to siphon money out of the government, both federal and state. So, "the leg out the door" was a well-played strategy, when that strategy no longer worked, they packed up and left.

I always supported government co-investment, it kept people in jobs and allowed us to buy the cars we fell in love with. But the Americans expecting an outside source to fund the development of a product they ultimately made money from is quite the concept. Very shrewd. And when those products made money, that money went back to the USA. When they didn't make money, well that gave them a tax benefit. Again, very shrewd.

[Sprintey]

Sort of related, and with respect to the spare parts - earlier in the year I walked into Gardener's in Perth and to my great delight discovered the Aussie Holden flame was still alive there. I test drove a VF wagon and was even more impressed with what they'd achieved. Yes, even the 6 cylinder one.

I've since found that dottered around the country are dealers who still have the Holden signage up, and dealers that do the last Commodores as a theme within their stocklists.

Now about the manufacturing, the other thing I've learned from the Button plan and it's final play out, is that if we want to be a first world country that value-adds, we the people are going to have to do it on our own, in spite of policy and with the costs stacked up against us. I used covid to set up my own productive capacity.

I look forward to seeing Australia have automakers once more but it probably won't occur until after the next Pacific conflict when they re-realise the importance of having sovereign production.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by DFB FGXR6

I think GM and Ford knew enough about the local car market in that they knew which buttons to press to siphon money out of the government, both federal and state. So, "the leg out the door" was a well-played strategy, when that strategy no longer worked, they packed up and left.

I always supported government co-investment, it kept people in jobs and allowed us to buy the cars we fell in love with. But the Americans expecting an outside source to fund the development of a product they ultimately made money from is quite the concept. Very shrewd. And when those products made money, that money went back to the USA. When they didn't make money, well that gave them a tax benefit. Again, very shrewd.

Would have been better incentivising customers to buy Australian made cars, rather than hand over fist to the manufacturers.

Think about things like free rego for the first three years, no GST, LCT et al - incentivise the buyer not the manufacturer.

Worked wonders with Thailand Specials