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The Bar For non Automotive Related Chat |
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04-04-2012, 11:01 AM | #1 | ||
FG Falcon fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
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As a normal PAYG taxpayer I find it annoying that the following groups avoid or minimise massively their income tax:
super rich crims small business operators those in the cash economy Now at least they cant avoid the GST when they visit a restaurant, buy a TV or a Big Mac. Now if I was in charge Id bump up the GST to 15% so these people actually pay some tax. I would also work out the value of this tax increase and reduce income tax accordingly. Try to make it revenue neutral. But we would see less tax paid by PAYG taxpayers and more by the above groups. Now if need be we could use some revenue to help retirees, bump up their pension to offset the slight increase in prices (4.5% theoretically). |
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04-04-2012, 11:23 AM | #2 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 601
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Are you serious?? And which of those 4 categories do u fall into?
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04-04-2012, 10:23 PM | #3 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brisbane
Posts: 3,568
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Quote:
goose Last edited by atec77; 04-04-2012 at 10:28 PM. |
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04-04-2012, 11:28 AM | #4 | ||
Giddy up.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Kramerica Industries.
Posts: 15,637
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WTF!!!!!!, if only you knew what Tax people earning a decent wage pay !.
You obviously have no idea my friend. |
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04-04-2012, 11:30 AM | #5 | ||
Last warning
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria HeadCount: 3
Posts: 11,194
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so we'd have more disposable income, but prices would rise.
end result, people spend more overseas importing goods :P
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04-04-2012, 11:47 AM | #6 | ||
Awesome
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: In my own little world..Everyone here knows me :)
Posts: 9,401
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Yeah I can see this thread ending well.
It is verging on the edge of the sites T&C's. If you want to have a debate/discussion, at least know what the point is that you want to make first. Cheers Col
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04-04-2012, 12:06 PM | #7 | ||||
XR & FPV Owner
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: On the Dark Side of The Moon
Posts: 2,355
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A bit like Pauline's idea to just print more money......... Yeah sure!
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06-04-2012, 08:20 AM | #8 | |||
Mot Adv-NSW
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Lake Macquarie, NSW
Posts: 2,153
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Its effects are to screw the US bond market, adds to inflation, reduces the value of the US dollar and so petrol (for them and us) increases in cost, and then the US uses some of its 'strategic reserve' to reduce price, simply has OPEN smiling, - as the reserve has to be refilled - at the higher prices at some stage! Its all a bargain. The practice is an attempt to aid the US housing market, but it'll fall in a heap, further.....
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04-04-2012, 12:13 PM | #9 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
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yea the eazy tax system its (or variations off) have been debated many times I think Pauline was the last one to raise it
trouble is nothing would change the GVT wouldnt drop the income tax to the same extent and the dum shmucks (like me would still be paying through the nose) just like all these other things according to to the Labour govt I'm a high income earner so my tax rate wouldnt change so I would get dun over again like the carbon tax compensation, the health insurance rebate, the K rudd hand outs, sorry I dont think this idea would work either
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04-04-2012, 12:14 PM | #10 | ||
FG Falcon fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
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I dont know if any of you actually read and digested what I was suggesting. Im a former tax officer (1993-2000) now im an IT contractor at the ATO. I have a very good knowledge of the tax system.
In a nutshell I point out that most taxpayers like you and me pay normal amounts of income tax. While many pay none or not what they really should. I point out that noone can avoid GST when buying a TV. So I suggest that GST increases, income tax goes down. The vast majority of people on these forums would be income taxpayers thru PAYG/PAYE. Doesnt anyone here realise income tax is a giant game full of rorts, loopholes, etc? Its a joke. |
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04-04-2012, 12:22 PM | #11 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: May 2006
Location: In my happy place
Posts: 5,432
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Quote:
yea I get cranky when I hear people talking about how they split there income with their Mrs or understate their income and their business covers almost all of their living expences, but I dont see a 15% GST being the answer
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04-04-2012, 12:31 PM | #12 | ||
N/A all the way
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Melbourne
Posts: 3,459
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Anything that stop the Gummint continually thinking I am rich just due to earnings.
I always liked this old story Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and the bill for all ten comes to $100... If they paid their bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something like this... The first four men (the poorest) would pay nothing. The fifth would pay $1. The sixth would pay $3. The seventh would pay $7.. The eighth would pay $12. The ninth would pay $18. The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59. So, that's what they decided to do.. The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the owner threw them a curve ball. "Since you are all such good customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of your daily beer by $20". Drinks for the ten men would now cost just $80. The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we pay our taxes. So the first four men were unaffected. They would still drink for free. But what about the other six men ? How could they divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his fair share? They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if they subtracted that from everybody's share, then the fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by a higher percentage the poorer he was, to follow the principle of the tax system they had been using, and he proceeded to work out the amounts he suggested that each should now pay. And so the fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% saving). The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33% saving). The seventh now paid $5 instead of $7 (28% saving). The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% saving). The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% saving). The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16% saving). Each of the six was better off than before. And the first four continued to drink for free. But, once outside the bar, the men began to compare their savings. "I only got a dollar out of the $20 saving," declared the sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man,"but he got $10!" "Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only saved a dollar too. It's unfair that he got ten times more benefit than me!" "That's true!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should he get $10 back, when I got only $2? The wealthy get all the breaks!" "Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison, "we didn't get anything at all. This new tax system exploits the poor!" The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up. The next night the tenth man didn't show up for drinks, so the nine sat down and had their beers without him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they discovered something important. They didn't have enough money between all of them for even half of the bill! And that, boys and girls, journalists and government ministers, is how our tax system works. The people who already pay the highest taxes will naturally get the most benefit from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them for being wealthy, and they just may not show up anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas, where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.
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04-04-2012, 01:22 PM | #13 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 1,013
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04-04-2012, 12:14 PM | #14 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,987
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off his head......
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04-04-2012, 12:31 PM | #15 | ||
FG Falcon fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
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Some tradies do whole or partial cash in hand, so they avoid income tax. But they cant avoid the GST when they buy a TV or a hair straightener for the Mrs.
This is the simple point some are struggling with, they are happy to pay income tax while others rort it. But noone can avoid the GST when u buy a box of condoms or a bullbar. Id love to also abolish deductions and reduce the income tax rates accordingly. No more rorts. |
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04-04-2012, 10:06 PM | #16 | |||
Club Moderator
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 547
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06-04-2012, 01:06 PM | #17 | |||
PHATXR8
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 290
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Quote:
When someone buys a TV or hair straightener they DO pay GST. Regardless of whether or not they pay with cash, cheque or credit card, the GST is still paid. Hopefully there will be some mass sackings of IT contractors at the ATO when Juliar is booted out at the next election! There is waaaay too much taxpayers money wasted on nuff nuffs like you! |
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06-04-2012, 01:17 PM | #18 | |||
Donating Member
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Morayfield
Posts: 28,090
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Quote:
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06-04-2012, 01:30 PM | #19 | |||
PHATXR8
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Canberra
Posts: 290
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Quote:
The guy who started this thread is probably a toilet cleaner at the ATO - he has no idea what he is talking about. He initially said he was a "normal PAYG taxpayer", then later he said he was an IT Contractor at the ATO..... so what is he really?? His 2 different descriptions of his employment status are at odds with one another. Last edited by PHATXR8; 06-04-2012 at 01:35 PM. |
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06-04-2012, 01:54 PM | #20 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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It does have an advantage that they can make sure they only employ the dumb ones, after all if you show ability and aptitude you may be a threat to your manager's position........ |
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04-04-2012, 12:32 PM | #21 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,421
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Quote:
I agree completely. I would push it further, drop income tax tosuper low flat rate for people under 200k income. Then increase GST right up to 20%. Also, delete nagative gearing - 1.3m properties negatively geared in Aus means billions of tax $ not being generated. Take it back to a you earn it, you keep it. But you spend, you pay it! System. |
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04-04-2012, 12:33 PM | #22 | ||
Long live the Falcon GT
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Victoria
Posts: 1,630
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Why don't we close the loopholes for the super rich... Rather than punishing the entire country?
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04-04-2012, 01:00 PM | #23 | |||
FG Falcon fan
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Canberra, ACT
Posts: 913
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Quote:
But what Im suggesting is that when they buy a Ferrari or a yacht, they cant avoid the GST. The car retailer charges GST and collects it and sends it to the ATO. Its far easier to audit 100,000 businesses than 10 million taxpayers. Its normal police officers, teachers and bus drivers who carry the tax burden in this country. |
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04-04-2012, 02:13 PM | #24 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 12,077
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Quote:
A few points: 1) The primary deduction for any company is.....wages. So what are you going to do for money when you are sacked? 2) Even if it were 1,000,000% GST it is only the PAYG people who will cop it in the neck not the self employed or company directors. Every single car I have bought since 2000 has had the GST claimed back immediately. A PAYG person cannot do that so increasing it will hurt the ones you are try in help. 3) The people you are trying to hurt are the ones that are actually making the system work. If you slam private business as has been done in USSR, North Korea, Cuba, most of Africa you will get exactly the same result. Maybe you think everyone should be equal to you in your PAYG job? Fair enough. Of course shops, pubs, petrol stations and whatever else will only open from 9 to 5 on week days because to have to work outside those hours is not fair. No TV or Radio at night, that is not fair. There will be no credit so you have to save up and pay cash up front for EVERYTHING. You will not get any more many than anyone else regardless of how hard you work or what you do and you can only drive the same car as everyone else othewise it is not fair. The most expensive thing in a business in the whinging employee.....YOU. YOU get 9% super, 17.5% loading, 4 weeks paid hols, sickies, workers comp, lunch break, smoke breaks and all the other little bonuses that private business owners do not. Are you prepared to give all of that up to reduce the tax burden on others? And the last question, I see you live in Canberra, you are not a public servant, the greatest money sink in the country, are you? |
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04-04-2012, 04:14 PM | #25 | |||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Miranda, NSW
Posts: 6,771
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Quote:
You've said this many a time over the years and I have to agree that the overheads and paperwork imposed on business makes employing staff an extremely painful process if not a nightmare - no argument from me on that one. However you seem particularly frustrated by it - moreso than others I have encountered in business. It must eat you up and can't be good for your health..Maybe sell up your business, (I assume you're in one), sack your staff and then become one of those employees you despise so much and then enjoy the fruits you're missing out on and have that well deserved holiday , with the leave loading included. To the OP Tax reform should start with a full overhaul of trusts and the usage of them. Asset protection, while all trustees will say this is the prime motivation for establishing them , is BS...and we all know that they are primarily used for income splitting. Leave GST alone.
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04-04-2012, 07:52 PM | #26 | |||
Thailand Specials
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04-04-2012, 08:40 PM | #27 | |||
Barra Turbo > V8
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04-04-2012, 02:52 PM | #28 | |||
Where to next??
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Sydney
Posts: 8,893
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Either way, they will still get their way, and the rest get punished. Remember, our system is far from 'fair' (and that will NEVER change)... it is just one that fits best. Some will win, some will lose.... such is life.
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___________________________ I've been around the world a couple of times or maybe more....... |
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04-04-2012, 12:48 PM | #29 | ||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 18,987
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some jobs i've payed shed loads of tax.. enough to support a few dolies and five or six single mums.... yea i feel i need to be slugged more for my maccas........
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04-04-2012, 12:58 PM | #30 | ||||
FF.Com.Au Hardcore
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 589
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so i don't think it is workable. points for trying though. |
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