mini-spool led to car crash which killed the driver's son

raised by monkeys · 30-07-2014, 04:21 PM

I feel for the family. I wonder if stupidity was involved?

http://www.9news.com.au/National/201...hat-killed-son

scottyg938 · 30-07-2014, 04:24 PM

from the article it wasn't the mini-spool that cause the crash, it was stupid driving.

"Newman changed from third to second gear and then accelerated, causing the rear wheels to lose traction with the road and spin, fishtail for 30 metres and then hit a tree"

mini-spools don't just randomly make the car fishtail without drivers input

HULK_I6T · 30-07-2014, 04:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

mini-spools don't just randomly make the car fishtail without drivers input

they do...

sweeping bend in the wet... wheels must turn at same rate.. opposite lock fish tails for sure.

scottyg938 · 30-07-2014, 04:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

they do...

sweeping bend in the wet... wheels must turn at same rate.. opposite lock fish tails for sure.

I'd still say it would require some input for it to fishtail.
I drove a mini-spooled car for over a year in all conditions and never had it unexpectedly kick out on me

jakkes · 30-07-2014, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

I'd still say it would require some input for it to fishtail.
I drove a mini-spooled car for over a year in all conditions and never had it unexpectedly kick out on me

same i had one in my xy for years 100% the drivers fault
i reckon single spinners are more dangerous/unpredictable in the wet and if you're do that kind of driving thats frowned at they are still unpredictable.........you know what a locked diff is going to do or what it's capable of doing if you don't think like that or know this stuff you should not have one in your car IMO

burnz · 30-07-2014, 05:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scottyg938

I'd still say it would require some input for it to fishtail.
I drove a mini-spooled car for over a year in all conditions and never had it unexpectedly kick out on me

no, on wet/dry roads the inner wheel breaks traction.
if the road has more grip then the car understeers as the rear wheel wont allow the car to turn, even driving slowly.

scottyg938 · 30-07-2014, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

no, on wet/dry roads the inner wheel breaks traction.
if the road has more grip then the car understeers as the rear wheel wont allow the car to turn, even driving slowly.

that's correct, but different to fishtailing.

the article also say's the driver dropped it down a gear and accelerated causing the fishtail.
again not caused by the spool, that could and would happen regardless of whether the car has a spool in it.

(PS: I'm not advocating mini-spools for road use, I know why and agree that they shouldn't be used on the road)

HULK_I6T · 31-07-2014, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burnz

no, on wet/dry roads the inner wheel breaks traction.
if the road has more grip then the car understeers as the rear wheel wont allow the car to turn, even driving slowly.

the car will almost certainly fishtail in the wet. With a mini spool the wheels must spin at same rate. driving around a sweeping bend will make it swing out on you. No different to giving it some throttle.

Ive driven a mini spool car on the road and it swung out on me unintentionally.

Trevor 57 · 01-08-2014, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

they do...

sweeping bend in the wet... wheels must turn at same rate.. opposite lock fish tails for sure.

funny, we have had one fitted to our track car and that has never happened, even after 6 years, wet and dry driving, 2 different drivers, me and my son

Given the right conditions a LSD can do what you are saying, should they ban them as well?

Mind you, I believe spools should only be on track

Definitely driver error is my opinion.

HULK_I6T · 30-07-2014, 04:36 PM

double post

Nova 8 · 30-07-2014, 07:16 PM

Already got the general public in the bag with hoon driving so now it's time to target modifications.

**Charliewool** · 30-07-2014, 07:43 PM

Geesh, years ago my daily was a twin 4 FE blocked cusso with a WELDED up diff...
Rain, hail or shine! (Soft dicks can't drive nowadays)

**GasoLane** · 30-07-2014, 10:09 PM

The thread title is wrong.
It should read "Dads stupidity and lack of experience....."

commonrails · 30-07-2014, 11:39 PM

Outside court, Sergeant John Smith said it was lucky the incident occurred on a straight road, rather than on a bend with other traffic on the road, which could have been even more catastrophic.

Hmm...

ratter · 31-07-2014, 08:13 AM

whether driver stupidity or not, they are illegal for a reason

uniacidz · 31-07-2014, 08:53 AM

Sad this story is.

The driver did install the mini spool which is silly in the first place on a street car, he knew the risks and yet still installed it and through this and his driving now has to live with the consequences.

Unfortunately, an avoidable situation

**PepeLePew** · 31-07-2014, 10:00 AM

Well said, in the end this dad has lost his son and will live with that for the rest of his life. And the 'mod' wouldn't have crashed into any tree without suitable input from hand and foot.

**cs123** · 31-07-2014, 10:45 AM

While we know that mini spools are somewhat more risky in the rain the main reason for this accident is driver behaviour. In this case a traction lok (LSD) or detroit locker would exhibit the same behaviour as a minispool. They are designed to drive the rear wheels together.

He must have been willing to accept blame for the modification rather then blame for dangerous driving.

blueoval · 31-07-2014, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cs123

While we know that mini spools are somewhat more risky in the rain the main reason for this accident is driver behaviour. In this case a traction lok (LSD) or detroit locker would exhibit the same behaviour as a minispool. They are designed to drive the rear wheels together.

He must have been willing to accept blame for the modification rather then blame for dangerous driving.

^^^ This.

If mini spools are that bad, ban all LSD's under the same pretences which a lot of sports RWD cars have from factory. It was driver induced, not the spools fault. This is the media making a mountain out of a molehill again.

HULK_I6T · 31-07-2014, 11:26 AM

I didnt know that at a crash site that the investigation team checklist checks for a mini spool. Seems ridiculous.

XB GS 351 Coupe · 31-07-2014, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HULK_I6T

I didnt know that at a crash site that the investigation team checklist checks for a mini spool. Seems ridiculous.

I guess this is what people that mod cars illegally do not consider, in a fatal accident the vehicle gets confiscated and gone through inch by inch with a fine tooth comb, standard procedure, so that once it goes to Court they have all the facts.

So any mods people think will go un noticed won't, as teams of specialist forensic officers and forensics trained mechanics go through every part of the car, testing all systems, in new cars they even down load the computer, as some will keep track of the last setting of cruise controls, abs operations and other stuff.

Much like they do with plane crashes and industrial work accidents etc etc

Any why would it be ridiculous to check the car involved in a fatal accident for being road worthy and safe?? It would be ridiculous not doing so

nstg8a · 31-07-2014, 05:03 PM

What's the difference between a spool and a locker? Don't they both do the same thing? Lock under load, unlock when no load?

ratter · 31-07-2014, 11:39 AM

A mini spool should not be compared to a LSD diff

Franco Cozzo · 31-07-2014, 11:53 AM

LSD allows some sort of slip so thats why you can go around corners fine with one.

Locked diff on the other hand, no slip there.

blueoval · 31-07-2014, 11:56 AM

When the accelerator is not applied sure there is slip. But under load as per the article? How is it different?

Franco Cozzo · 31-07-2014, 12:03 PM

It still never 100% locks like a locker does though?

blueoval · 31-07-2014, 12:10 PM

Well a tight LSD does. I know when I had my past fords with LSD's fitted and it was tight they used to lock up hard under load and give similar results to a spool. The only difference is not under load going around corners it behaved like a regular diff. Which is something a spool does not allow.

LG17 · 31-07-2014, 12:30 PM

I'm sorry but the only spool which contributed to the crash was the one that wasn't working in his brain!

**cs123** · 31-07-2014, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ratter

A mini spool should not be compared to a LSD diff

In this instance you can. 3rd to 2nd and on the power. LSD, spool, locker will be driving both wheels.

blueoval · 31-07-2014, 05:49 PM

Based on my understanding from mates who have explained it to me and had a Detroit Lockers fitted to their race cars:

A Detroit Locker is a more heavy duty version of a LSD. Except there are no clutch packs in a Detroit Locker as it's based on solid spool technology. When the locker engages under load, it locks into the spool. Operates just like a mini spool except stronger. When the is no load, the locker releases from the spool and acts like an open wheeler to gain control around corners and turns etc.

Also read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Locking_differential

Anyone else who knows more about them, feel free to correct my terminology.