Automotive trends that need to die in 2023

[Sprintey]

Here's Car Expert:

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...to-die-in-2023

Gotta say I agree with most of what they've said. Things they mention, have been mentioned in these forums - like every car being black/grey/silver/white, the increasing costs. Further, we've discussed all the mental chimes, annoyingly menu driven, to be turned off. They also mention poorly calibrated safety software - things I've asked some of you here about.

As I don't have discus, I'll rant here. Our recent inspection of Suby Outback to replace our Ford Territory saw some of these issues come up. The car was a beauty. The deal killer, for me, is that if I spend all that money, will I be drawn into an insanity of rage continually having to find the sub-menu that turns off the annoying features each time I get in the car? Dare to imagine a world with a simple toggle button, once pressed, leaves the feature off.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Here's Car Expert:

https://www.carexpert.com.au/car-new...to-die-in-2023

Gotta say I agree with most of what they've said. Things they mention, have been mentioned in these forums - like every car being black/grey/silver/white, the increasing costs. Further, we've discussed all the mental chimes, annoyingly menu driven, to be turned off. They also mention poorly calibrated safety software - things I've asked some of you here about.

As I don't have discus, I'll rant here. Our recent inspection of Suby Outback to replace our Ford Territory saw some of these issues come up. The car was a beauty. The deal killer, for me, is that if I spend all that money, will I be drawn into an insanity of rage continually having to find the sub-menu that turns off the annoying features each time I get in the car? Dare to imagine a world with a simple toggle button, once pressed, leaves the feature off.

That new Hyundai Kona rental recently to $ydney was just an annoying little s**t with all the bells and whistles going off constantly, not to mention some stupid screen blocking my vision.
FFS leave me alone and stop distracting me while I'm driving.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

That new Hyundai Kona rental recently to $ydney was just an annoying little s**t with all the bells and whistles going off constantly, not to mention some stupid screen blocking my vision.
FFS leave me alone and stop distracting me while I'm driving.

Can't use your phone while driving.

HEY LOOK APPLE CAR PLAY/ANDROID AUTO!

You've received an SMS, do you want to look at it? says SYNC - Sure!

Big *** portrait screen in the centre of the dash which kinda looks like a phone but on a much larger scale.

HVAC controls as touch screen buttons on the big *** screen in the centre of the dash.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by roKWiz

That new Hyundai Kona rental recently to $ydney was just an annoying little s**t with all the bells and whistles going off constantly, not to mention some stupid screen blocking my vision.
FFS leave me alone and stop distracting me while I'm driving.

This reminds me, if possible hire before I buy, for a week or so to get a feel for what living with all the uninvited nanny would be like.

[Ben73]

Opening the glove box with a button on a screen.
I know most people say “opening this glovebox with a mechanical button or handle on the glovebox itself is too basic, I wish it was more complicated and prone to failure” but I still think it shouldn’t be a thing

[Rallye Sport]

Originally Posted by Ben73

Opening the glove box with a button on a screen.
I know most people say “opening this glovebox with a mechanical button or handle on the glovebox itself is too basic, I wish it was more complicated and prone to failure” but I still think it shouldn’t be a thing

[kevino]

Franco did you know with Apple car play it will read the texts by voice and also send by voice?

[aussiblue]

Limiting access to factory workshop manuals etc and trying to limit repairer and servicing to certified service centers and outlawing DIY repairs and servicing.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

Limiting access to factory workshop manuals etc and trying to limit repairer and servicing to certified service centers and outlawing DIY repairs and servicing.

Just been changed this year through legislation my man

About the scheme

The Motor Vehicle Information Scheme (scheme) is a mandatory scheme. Under the Competition and Consumer Act 2010 motor vehicle service and repair information must be made available to all Australian motor vehicle repairers (repairers) and registered training organisations (RTOs) to buy at a price that does not exceed the fair market value.

This provides repairers and registered training organisations with access to service and repair information. This includes:

Information needed to service and repair cars or provide training
Software updates that help to connect a new spare part with a car
Information and codes for computerised systems from a car manufacturer.

Before the scheme, only car manufacturers and their affiliated repairers had better access to this information. This prevented many independent repairers from competing fairly. It also created additional costs for consumers as well as inconvenience and delays.

The new law applies to passenger vehicles and light goods vehicles other than omnibuses, manufactured on or after 1 January 2002.

It does not apply to 2 or 3 wheeled vehicles, farm, construction or heavy vehicles, motor homes or buses.

https://www.accc.gov.au/media-releas...ir-information

This was put on the radar by Ricky Muir, unfortunately it took way too long to get in front of parliament because he got iced in the double dissolution election yonks ago, but we're here now.

Of course it excludes the important vehicles

[kevino]

Supplying jacks and tyre changing stuff in the boot that can’t actually do the job.
Here’s looking at you Ford.

[aussiblue]

Just been changed this year through legislation my man

I know about this but it limits access to Australian motor vehicle repairers (repairers) and registered training organisations so notionally cuts out the DIY. Indeed I found some manufacturers require you to supply a ABN number that confirms you a licensed repairer before they will release any data or allow you to access a factory workshop manual.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

I know about this but it limits access to Australian motor vehicle repairers (repairers) and registered training organisations so notionally cuts out the DIY. Indeed I found some manufacturers require you to supply a ABN number that confirms you a licensed repairer before they will release any data or allow you to access a factory workshop manual.

Register yourself an ABN and sign up for these

https://www.gmtradeparts.com.au

https://www.fordtradeclub.com.au

Even if you just have COD accounts with your local dealers and you pay card over the phone it'll suddenly give you access to trade pricing on service items like filters, spark plugs, oil, wiper blades et al and information.

Sure its only Ford and GM but they also sell batteries/service components for other makes and models under their Omnicraft/ACDelco brands.

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Which brings me to my next gripe, VIN locked components, it just seems now you cant do anything without the need to program it, my Merc for instance, you cant change the gearbox, auto shifter, fuse boxes, radio, instrument cluster, any modules, headlights and there is heaps of other parts that are VIN locked to the car, Why?

Its just anti competitive behavior, its to stop you or your local independent workshop from fixing your own car - they want you coming back to the dealership.

Its to the point that the new legislation was way too late before the majority of the damage was done to the independents.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its just anti competitive behavior, its to stop you or your local independent workshop from fixing your own car - they want you coming back to the dealership.

Its to the point that the new legislation was way too late before the majority of the damage was done to the independents.

Its alright though, you just need the Mercedes STAR diagnostic scanner, its only $20,000.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Franco Cozzo

Its alright though, you just need the Mercedes STAR diagnostic scanner, its only $20,000.

As low as $1400 on eBay, but they still get into you once you have one, subscription to log onto their server so you can do ECU etc, as you cant do it without connecting, Mercedes has it all sewn up with regards to flouting the laws to allow Joe average to work on their cars.

The problem with going to the Mercedes dealership to get modules programmed is they charge $300 per hour and nothing ever gets done in the hour ever, I have more success doing it myself at home in less time, I'm sure they throw the apprentice on most module coding to learn at your expense and when he runs out of time they give you a estimate of a couple more hours.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

As low as $1400 on eBay, but they still get into you once you have one, subscription to log onto their server so you can do ECU etc, as you cant do it without connecting, Mercedes has it all sewn up with regards to flouting the laws to allow Joe average to work on their cars.

The problem with going to the Mercedes dealership to get modules programmed is they charge $300 per hour and nothing ever gets done in the hour ever, I have more success doing it myself at home in less time, I'm sure they throw the apprentice on most module coding to learn at your expense and when he runs out of time they give you a estimate of a couple more hours.

The Ford IDS was way cheaper and more reasonably priced - was $3800 + $660/USD year for updates and access but it included Ford/JLR/Mazda as well when I was looking at it in 2015.

The whole diagnostic scanner thing is a crap shoot, whether you got OEM tools or the aftermarket jobs, I had two Autel scanners, one cost $5000 and they wanted $2000/year for the updates and the thing didn't even work properly with VW or Hyundai/Kia, or do steering angle sensor resets on BF Falcons.

We had the Mercedes STAR diagnostic scanner where I did my apprenticeship, our Sydney branch had it and they'd send it via couriers to the other interstate branches when we needed to use it

[Late braker]

All this is why I like my old school BF XR6.

[Sprintey]

Yes, this is a reason why an upgrade to new might not be as appealing as an upgrade to older like a BF, in good condition. It sounds mad.

In other news, we got a holiday drive in my BIL's 1965 Valiant, with my young one taking the wheel. It started after not having been started for weeks, the push button auto was novel (as was the star trek style chrome lever, pull down to put in park) and it drove nicely!

The thing that most impressed was the bonnet raising mechanism. Torsion bar of some kind? Two opposed bars placed across the bonnet line, up near the firewall, in a twisting L shape, with a greased roller. At any rate, it's 50+ years old, hardly any maintenance, and it leaves all the replacement gas struts of today for dead. I know which system will still be working in 2072.

[stefcio007]

I'm more surprised why manufactures don't bother selling their hybrids here since there is a market, just look at Toyota. People even import Toyota hybrids despite Toyota selling them. Plenty of Honda hybrids imported but Honda Aus acts like they don't even exist. Nissan, seen a few eNotes around (I know not hybrid in the general sense but close enough).

If we're going to become a dumping ground and the rest of the world is moving to Battery Electric can we at least be a hybrid dumping ground? :P

One thing that totally irked me this year is Ford stopped selling the Focus so some genius removed all the Online Owner Manuals, you guessed it, they don't offer a downloadable PDF anymore.
To access it you need to go to the Motorcraft Service website as the Ford Australia one doesn't have it anymore, bonkers.

[Poetic Justice]

Originally Posted by stefcio007

I'm more surprised why manufactures don't bother selling their hybrids here since there is a market, just look at Toyota. .

Given Toyota's longevity in the hybrid space, they got it to a drive away price that a lot of manufacturers havent been able to compete with. Hyundai said as much a year or two ago.

Having said that, it's all starting to change. Hyundai just released a hybrid Santa Fe with a Tucson coming in 23 and more and more after that.

Haval is also offering hybrids.

It will become more prominent in the next 18 months I feel.

Originally Posted by Sprintey

Things they mention, have been mentioned in these forums - like every car being black/grey/silver/white, the increasing costs. Further, we've discussed all the mental chimes, annoyingly menu driven, to be turned off. They also mention poorly calibrated safety software - things I've asked some of you here about.

As I don't have discus, I'll rant here. Our recent inspection of Suby Outback to replace our Ford Territory saw some of these issues come up. The car was a beauty. The deal killer, for me, is that if I spend all that money, will I be drawn into an insanity of rage continually having to find the sub-menu that turns off the annoying features each time I get in the car? Dare to imagine a world with a simple toggle button, once pressed, leaves the feature off.

In terms of the colour comment, I've long said this is a vicious cycle. Car dealers order some odd ball colours (let's say bright, loudish colours, or even greens etc) and they don't sell - so then we won't order it again. Then when a customer comes in wanting something different, they don't necessarily want to wait for a colour and will take the grey in stock. Therefore, sales history says colours don't sell so don't order them. We're in a different scenario these days with stock issues so this probably applies to pre COVID - but the lack of colour going out the door issue with a lot of cars is probably more related to the dealers.

In terms of safety mechanisms.. this is an odd thing to talk about. Perhaps the car enthusiasts mindset where we all think we know how to drive and don't need aids. For this reason my father in law doesn't drive anything newer than a 92 model car and would very unlikely buy anything new.

But damned if you do, damned if you don't... my god cars that hit the market without every single safety feature and a 5 star ancap rating is seen as a death trap.

Most cars in my opinion don't really require going in to screen menus to disable a feature, the buttons are generally on the dash or console, though I can't speak for many Fords, maybe they're different.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

For this reason my father in law doesn't drive anything newer than a 92 model car and would very unlikely buy anything new.

I'm with him. Wind down windows, carby, comfy bench seat and no computer. bliss.

[Sprintey]

Originally Posted by Poetic Justice

Given Toyota's longevity in the hybrid space, they got it to a drive away price that a lot of manufacturers havent been able to compete with. Hyundai said as much a year or two ago.

Having said that, it's all starting to change. Hyundai just released a hybrid Santa Fe with a Tucson coming in 23 and more and more after that.

Haval is also offering hybrids.

It will become more prominent in the next 18 months I feel.



In terms of the colour comment, I've long said this is a vicious cycle. Car dealers order some odd ball colours (let's say bright, loudish colours, or even greens etc) and they don't sell - so then we won't order it again. Then when a customer comes in wanting something different, they don't necessarily want to wait for a colour and will take the grey in stock. Therefore, sales history says colours don't sell so don't order them. We're in a different scenario these days with stock issues so this probably applies to pre COVID - but the lack of colour going out the door issue with a lot of cars is probably more related to the dealers.

In terms of safety mechanisms.. this is an odd thing to talk about. Perhaps the car enthusiasts mindset where we all think we know how to drive and don't need aids. For this reason my father in law doesn't drive anything newer than a 92 model car and would very unlikely buy anything new.

But damned if you do, damned if you don't... my god cars that hit the market without every single safety feature and a 5 star ancap rating is seen as a death trap.

Most cars in my opinion don't really require going in to screen menus to disable a feature, the buttons are generally on the dash or console, though I can't speak for many Fords, maybe they're different.

That's a good counter-point on the colours, how did we go from the time of the BA with bright purples and blues and acidic yellows and limes and reds - with choices of colour highlights inside - to end up where we are today?

Mustang has the colours, one of the dealers here had a beautiful dark green one, was that you?

[Wretched]

Subscriptions and the integration of buttons for basic operations into complicated menu options within the car's system.

[naddis01]

Something that needs to end are the horrendous looking wheels available now. Especially 4x4 wheels that insist on have fake bead lock bolts on them.

This sort of look...

[prktkljokr]

All manufacturers offer what their university degree designers and engineers tell them we want, and get a nice pat on the back when they get lapped up by the masses, simple way to stop this crap is to stop buying them.

It should go back to the days of you buy a base model and add the extra's you want when you buy the car, and if they designed the car for this purpose it would be easy to deliver a car with the components missing and they were plug and play at the dealer level.

Which brings me to my next gripe, VIN locked components, it just seems now you cant do anything without the need to program it, my Merc for instance, you cant change the gearbox, auto shifter, fuse boxes, radio, instrument cluster, any modules, headlights and there is heaps of other parts that are VIN locked to the car, Why?

[Citroënbender]

Originally Posted by prktkljokr

Which brings me to my next gripe, VIN locked components, it just seems now you cant do anything without the need to program it, my Merc for instance, you cant change the gearbox, auto shifter, fuse boxes, radio, instrument cluster, any modules, headlights and there is heaps of other parts that are VIN locked to the car, Why?

It’s a tax on people without connections to the east European automotive world. Modules cloned, odometer rollbacks, RCM edits, virginisation - there seem to be few limits within just a year or three of new tech releases.

[prktkljokr]

Originally Posted by Citroënbender

Modules cloned, odometer rollbacks, RCM edits, virginisation - there seem to be few limits within just a year or three of new tech releases.

Yes, have had this done to a fair few airbag modules and a Sam modules, I use a guy in north of the river in Malaga to reset the airbag modules and do the virgin route to the components for me now.

Just cant see why this is necessary for any other components other than the BCM and ECU to be locked, it just makes it hard for a repairer as with the Merc you pretty much need the MB Star Xentry, for me to replace the radio in the Merc I have to plug it in and do a procedure so it can be refitted to another car, if you dont follow the procedure its a brick, I dont understand its obviously not a theft deterrent as the radio wont fit into anything else and its crap anyway.

[ford71V8]

Didnt know half these things/problems existed.
Why are we using a screen to open the glove box?

[jpd80]

The coming danger is subscriptions where cars are sold like phones - everything is built into it
but you’re required to pay monthly subscription to unlock features that are already installed.

[hayseed]

Originally Posted by jpd80

The coming danger is subscriptions where cars are sold like phones - everything is built into it
but you’re required to pay monthly subscription to unlock features that are already installed.

I've got a feeling that Tesla are already doing this...!!

BISTBC

[jpd80]

Originally Posted by hayseed

I've got a feeling that Tesla are already doing this...!!

BISTBC

Now that wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest but recently, BMW tried this with heated seats in the US,
the backlash from buyers stunned the brass who thought it a good idea.

Also in a recent interview, Jim Farley mentioned that Doug Field would be exploring possibilities
so get ready to be nickeled and dimmed by Ford management on your premium purchases….