Adam Le Brese

[Gambit]

In the new Street Machine mag it says Adam le brese has started on his next car since his smoty winning EH sedan delivery. He is doing a pro touring style XC hardtop.
It will have a full chassis with integrated rollcage & cantilevered airbag suspension all round. It will have custom body mods including suicide doors. Engine will be a 351c with injection perfection throttle bodies. It will have a monster set of Alcon brakes behind Intro killer vista 5 ll wheels.

Can't wait to see this finished after what he did with the EH. Here is a pic for those who don't know what it looks like.It's down the bottom of the page.

http://carpoint.ninemsn.com.au/Tig/M...ointau&id=6435

[blownvn]

Thought I might revive an old thread.

Adam Le Brese's Coupe is in the latest Street Machine? They've got some extra pics on the website too.



More pics here

http://www.carpoint.com.au/Tig/Minis...ointau&id=8361

[Nostalgia]

Gotta say that is one awesome piece of engineering right there. I have the mag and have read the article numerous times. LHD too as he wants to do the Powertour i think its called across the USofA. Dont paint it Adam, just clear coat the raw Henry Steel !!!

[blownvn]

Originally Posted by EAadam

Gotta say that is one awesome piece of engineering right there. I have the mag and have read the article numerous times. LHD too as he wants to do the Powertour i think its called across the USofA. Dont paint it Adam, just clear coat the raw Henry Steel !!!

Looks cool in the raw doesn't it?

[Nostalgia]

Hell yeah. How about the steering wheel. This is art. Front suspension design isnt anything new but it has been very well executed. I still say keep it raw : Dont get me wrong, Car mags have plenty of eye candy, but once in a while something like this comes along and just blows everyone away. I love it.

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by EAadam

Front suspension design isnt anything new but it has been very well executed.

really i have not seen ar car like this before, besides F1 and other all out racing cars and some Supercars...

[blownvn]

It'll be good seeing both Adam's new car and Gary's new car at Summernats - two cool Coupes in the flesh.

[MeestaNob!]

I love that raw look, but I prefer the polished finish even more. Looks tops.

[Polyal]

I agree, keep it raw!

I brought my first SM today because of the cover..LOL

[big_pete]

yeah its very cool, hopefully he chooses the right paint scheme.

he seems to have a good sense of style though

[Nikked]

Originally Posted by big_pete

yeah its very cool, hopefully he chooses the right paint scheme.

he seems to have a good sense of style though

-Silver with Charcoal/Graphite Cobra Stripes
-Blood red dimond stitched interior
-A Full Undertray Anodized Black (It was mentioned early on in the build), likes metal rather then plastics So it sounds like it will be Aluminium, hence the Anodized Coating
-4 IDA webbers, Probally Anodized Red

All the suspension tubing is Home made F1 style areotube! And the Steering wheel is cast Alloy!

[Raptor]

Originally Posted by Nikk O'lass

-Silver with Charcoal/Graphite Cobra Stripes
-Blood red dimond stitched interior...

This guy's got good taste big time :

It's a similar paint scheme to Troy Trepanier FastForward Fastback 1967 Mustang® built for eBay Motors.

[Falcon Freak]

Originally Posted by Raptor

This guy's got good taste big time :

It's a similar paint scheme to Troy Trepanier FastForward Fastback 1967 Mustang® built for eBay Motors.

I see in Melbourne on a regular basis a BA XR8 with the same colour scheme, including stripes.

FF

[Skooter]

Wow, you know it's gona be a hot car when it ,makes you jiz in bare metal.

[TUF_302]

Now thats a REAL CAR!!! :

[Falcon Coupe]

The raw thing has been done and i'm not a fan, it needs paint.

[agony]

Tuff car, nothing else to say!

[drcook]

engineering art.

[big_pete]

makes me think back when Daryl Mcbeth did the bare metal look at summernats with his magna.
it looked hot, but as soon as he painted it, it lost alot of its appeal to me

[1970galaxie]

That is gunna be one killer car!
First time I've seen suicide doors on something like this. Can't wait to see more.

[Falcon Freak]

Nice work. But why waste an XC coupe shell?

FF

[1970galaxie]

Originally Posted by Falcon Freak

Nice work. But why waste an XC coupe shell?

FF

What do ya mean, waste?
That thing is a work of art.

[XRated]

That's unreal. I usually would say to paint it, but there is something about that raw look that really sets it off.

[Falcon_Phill]

Now go dip the thing in some chrome.

[Strucnjak]

from an engineering point of view, that front suspension is pretty bad, the load paths and the way the bell crank is being reacted into the chassis is pretty poo. Theres a reason why major loads are reacted into nodes.

One of my pet hates is seeing aero tube where its not necessary, its a closed chassis car whats the point of it? He has gone to all the effort of making the aero tube, but has stuck giant rod ends in bending at the end of the wishbone, why not make spherical bearing housings. Its not like he has cut corners anywhere else and it looks so much neater.

Sorry about the rant.

On a more positive note its very cool to see a car in street machine that isn't pro stock and gone to something a little more original, le mans XC coupe, thats tough!

[Nostalgia]

Originally Posted by Strucnjak

from an engineering point of view, that front suspension is pretty bad, the load paths and the way the bell crank is being reacted into the chassis is pretty poo. Theres a reason why major loads are reacted into nodes.

One of my pet hates is seeing aero tube where its not necessary, its a closed chassis car whats the point of it? He has gone to all the effort of making the aero tube, but has stuck giant rod ends in bending at the end of the wishbone, why not make spherical bearing housings. Its not like he has cut corners anywhere else and it looks so much neater.

Sorry about the rant.

On a more positive note its very cool to see a car in street machine that isn't pro stock and gone to something a little more original, le mans XC coupe, thats tough!

Any evidence to back your quotes ?

[Strucnjak]

If you look at where the bell crank(rocker) is being reacted, it is in the middle of a member, tubes are good at resisting torsion and are reasonable in tension/comp, however bending is what kills tubes, in this instance the bell crank load is being reacted in the middle of a tube putting this member into bending, big no no. if there was some triangulation(truss structure) tying in the bell crank mount to say the node near the lower radiator mount or another major node rather then the current bent tube, then that would be ok. the push rod is taking all your vertical loads and and transferring them into the damper through the bell crank, this is a very large force. Mind you if properly sized this particular structure would be be acceptable, however looking from a race car design perspective this is really poor. Have a good look at this photo, it clearly shows what im talking about.
http://www.carpoint.com.au/carconten...mbition/04.jpg

Aero tube is good if you have your wishbone in free stream air and you are doing 200km/h plus. However here there is coachwork that is blocking the wishbones from any major air flow. Aero tube is mainly used in open wheel racing because circular tube is inherently draggy(sic), we have done wind tunnel work on circular vs aero tube on wishbones, we came to the conclusion as have many others that there is no reason to run aero tube for wishbones unless you have no other course of drag reduction, the reduction in drag is so minuscule. The other point is that aero tube is about 3 times the price of normal chromo tube and if you make the aero tube yourself from circular tubing you have effectively compromised the material by taking it past its yield. aside from looks there is no real need.

Rod ends in bending, typically wishbones should only be in tension and compression. As you can see below i have drawn two free body diagrams(please excuse the poor diagrams, im pretty poor with ms paint), as you corner you induce a lateral force and this has to be reacted into the chassis through the wishbones, since you are running a spherical bearing on the upright to allow turning, this lateral force can only be seen as a tension or compression in the wishbone as spherical bearings cannot react a torque. As with alot of cars for simplicity and cost reasons rod ends are used at the wishbone ends with a threaded lug to allow camber/caster adjustment and mounting. lets assume were only talking about a bottom wishbone on the loaded side of the car, ignore push rod/damper. In this case we are dealing with compression in the wishbone.

For the case of the rod end wishbone (which is used on this car)this compression force is being transfered from the direction of the wishbone into the direction of the rod end. This change of geometry induces a bending in the arrangement and can cause major failure at the root of the thread on the rod end, again if it is properly sized than it can be acceptable, but it is usually much heavier. you could run the rod end in plane with the wishbone as well, i run in plane rod ends on the top wishbones with concentric double adjusters for quick camber/caster adjustment.

For the case of the spherical bearing in its own housing, the compression force is reacted in plane with no changes of direction. The advantage of spherical bearings with in plane loading is that the size of the assembly can be much smaller due to the smaller loads that it sees.

In the xc's case there has been lots of time and money spent on making alot of things look good, but a little bit more effort into making the design a bit more sound and light would have been cool to see. Efficiency is what its all about in race cars.

im sorry if i have bored anybody, i just feel very passionate about suspension design and dynamics. Anyone please feel free to correct any mistakes i have made.

[Rev28K]

Originally Posted by Strucnjak

im sorry if i have bored anybody, i just feel very passionate about suspension design and dynamics. Anyone please feel free to correct any mistakes i have made.

This is going waaayyyy off topic (I like the XC by the way) but do you want to take a shot at explaining modern F1’s front control arms then?

I know that they use carbon fibre for the “wishbone” arms but they don’t seem to have visible bearings at the pivot points.

The display cars at motor shows, etc just seem to have a crease in the carbon fibre where it is meant to bend/connect with the chassis (top of the V on a wishbone)

I know that it was introduced by Ferrari a few years ago and everyone seems to be doing it but other than that….

What are the advantage/disadvantages?

[Strucnjak]

F1 wishbones typically are manufactured using a carbon flexure joint and are the most optimal with regards to weight, drag and simplicity. Typically a spherical bearing is used to provide suspension motion at the chassis, however carbon flexures are where the carbon tube tapers downs and the carbon flexes to provide the suspension movement.

Since f1 cars have alot aerodynamic download, the suspension has to be very stiff meaning little suspension travel(most of the wheel travel is through the tire). The loading that a wishbone takes is mainly in the axial direction, the vertical motion is generally reacted by the spring and damper arrangement. This means that the flexures are adequately stiff in the required direction. Manufacturing these wishbones is simple as there is only one part to make.

I think all teams run a hybrid chromo/carbon wishbone on the upper rear trailing arm, simply beacuse its the closest to the exhaust and the resins used in the carbon fibre simply degrade with the increase in such high temperatures.

I hope this helps. Below are photos of the different set ups

[Ghiadude]

Originally Posted by Strucnjak

If you look at where the bell crank(rocker) is being reacted, it is in the middle of a member, tubes are good at resisting torsion and are reasonable in tension/comp, however bending is what kills tubes, in this instance the bell crank load is being reacted in the middle of a tube putting this member into bending, big no no. if there was some triangulation(truss structure) tying in the bell crank mount to say the node near the lower radiator mount or another major node rather then the current bent tube, then that would be ok. the push rod is taking all your vertical loads and and transferring them into the damper through the bell crank, this is a very large force. Mind you if properly sized this particular structure would be be acceptable, however looking from a race car design perspective this is really poor. Have a good look at this photo, it clearly shows what im talking about.
http://www.carpoint.com.au/carconten...mbition/04.jpg

Aero tube is good if you have your wishbone in free stream air and you are doing 200km/h plus. However here there is coachwork that is blocking the wishbones from any major air flow. Aero tube is mainly used in open wheel racing because circular tube is inherently draggy(sic), we have done wind tunnel work on circular vs aero tube on wishbones, we came to the conclusion as have many others that there is no reason to run aero tube for wishbones unless you have no other course of drag reduction, the reduction in drag is so minuscule. The other point is that aero tube is about 3 times the price of normal chromo tube and if you make the aero tube yourself from circular tubing you have effectively compromised the material by taking it past its yield. aside from looks there is no real need.

Rod ends in bending, typically wishbones should only be in tension and compression. As you can see below i have drawn two free body diagrams(please excuse the poor diagrams, im pretty poor with ms paint), as you corner you induce a lateral force and this has to be reacted into the chassis through the wishbones, since you are running a spherical bearing on the upright to allow turning, this lateral force can only be seen as a tension or compression in the wishbone as spherical bearings cannot react a torque. As with alot of cars for simplicity and cost reasons rod ends are used at the wishbone ends with a threaded lug to allow camber/caster adjustment and mounting. lets assume were only talking about a bottom wishbone on the loaded side of the car, ignore push rod/damper. In this case we are dealing with compression in the wishbone.

For the case of the rod end wishbone (which is used on this car)this compression force is being transfered from the direction of the wishbone into the direction of the rod end. This change of geometry induces a bending in the arrangement and can cause major failure at the root of the thread on the rod end, again if it is properly sized than it can be acceptable, but it is usually much heavier. you could run the rod end in plane with the wishbone as well, i run in plane rod ends on the top wishbones with concentric double adjusters for quick camber/caster adjustment.

For the case of the spherical bearing in its own housing, the compression force is reacted in plane with no changes of direction. The advantage of spherical bearings with in plane loading is that the size of the assembly can be much smaller due to the smaller loads that it sees.

In the xc's case there has been lots of time and money spent on making alot of things look good, but a little bit more effort into making the design a bit more sound and light would have been cool to see. Efficiency is what its all about in race cars.

im sorry if i have bored anybody, i just feel very passionate about suspension design and dynamics. Anyone please feel free to correct any mistakes i have made.

in hindsight a simple YES wouldve sufficed!! that has to be THE biggest ownage i have EVER read.

Thank s for the explanation i think i understand it now. I have some suspension design questions for a project that i'd like to ask if youd be so nice to answer?? ill post in the appropriate forum and let the others have a go as well. As for the XC flawed suspension it may have but dam thats hawt:evil3: