Are We Being Too Harsh And Critial Of Ford Australia

[jpd80]

With Ford Australia announcing that they are seeking voluntary redundancy
for 240 workers and down balancing the line speed from 260/day to 209/ day,
are we being too harsh and critical of Ford Australia?

Like others on here over the past week, I've vented my anger/frustration
at the disappointingly low Falcon sales of late and perhaps that is colouring
perspective of the bigger picture and long term outlook for Ford Australia.
Maybe things are nowhere near as bleak as they appear.....

At present the plant line speed is set at 260/day but running three days a week
so by going back to 209/day a full five day working week will return and if things
improve, maybe there will be overtime on hand to build additional units.

Scenario 1:
If Falcon sales don't improve in the immediate future, the workforce
will still has sufficient vehicles to build when Falcon-Ute-Territory are combined

Scenario 2:
If Falcon sales do recover and additional production time is required to
build say, Territory then that can be done in overtime on Saturdays.
Four extra Saturdays would enable another 800 odd vehicles to be made,
it's possible that Ford could find itself working more days than it thinks...


Few if any on here would know what the minimum limit of viability is for Broadmeadows
but by the way Ford are prepared to make changes, it looks like they are prepared to
wait out this low point in sales and back their new products and engines that are
coming progressively over the next six to nine months. This is probably the best
form of cost control open to FoA and shows they are not prepared to throw in the towel
just yet on their products, maybe they know something about coming trends we don't...

Perhaps Ford Head office likes the way FoA are managing costs and is prepared to
back FoA more than we can ever imagine, what if they actually like what they see
in regards to use of resources in a tough market, what if they absolutely love some
of the local vehicle plans FoA are developing........


Your thoughts....

[Ford_The_Win]

I think in some ways we aren't being too harsh on them - the complete lack of marketing/crap marketing for Falcon is one of contributing factors that has led to a lack of sales, but one of the easiest to rectify. They seriously need to lift their game in that department.

I do think they have more faith in their local products than we give them credit for, though. I'm getting really tired of Broadmeadows being written off...Ford still have a few cards left to play...namely LPi, Ecoboost, and diesel Terri... people have been predicting the Falcon's downfall for 30 years, and suprise suprise, it's still here. I'll wait and see where they are in 12 months before I write them off.

[SteveJH]

How much does it cost them to make someone redundant?

[Iggypoppin']

Originally Posted by SteveJH

How much does it cost them to make someone redundant?

Not sure about ford but at my work it is one weeks pay per year of work at the company. I'd imagine it might be similar at ford.

[Fordman1]

Originally Posted by Iggypoppin'

Not sure about ford but at my work it is one weeks pay per year of work at the company. I'd imagine it might be similar at ford.

3.1 weeks per year I think....

Plus there could be bonus for signing up to it.

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by SteveJH

How much does it cost them to make someone redundant?

Depends on how long they've worked there for - generally 4 weeks for every year served.

I would say yes, people are way too critical of Ford.

Ford seem to have developed a bad rap, through what though, I'm not really sure.

When you walk into a dealership, the whole company is on show - if you have a salesman who is not engaged in the business to start off with, you have issues.

People base their decision making on a number of things, the product, the service, the after sales service.

The sales business is fickle, and incredibly incestuous. The salesman you see at Holden today, could be the salesman you see at Ford tomorrow. There's no loyalty with employees or consumers - we as a society are responsible for this.

Advertising is just a small component of the sales process - it implants the idea in someone's head that they want the product. The want becomes a need and the need is satisfied when the product is purchased.

Ford don't focus heavily on advertising, rather they seem to use their products to sell things.

Understandably, if someone buys a product, they want something that is going to be worth their money. The little niggles that I see floating about here are indicative of picky purchasers, they want to see every single cent of their money in the vehicle they have purchased. Small things seem to upset them, and yet Holden have somehow managed to sell their products despite these things.

Drive magazine is a perfect example of this theory in practice. Drive is considered amongst most people as a knowledge base, a place to gain the information required about the desired product.

Now I don't watch television, so I don't know about the advertising schemes that Holden or Ford use on TV, what I do know is that Holden utilise every kind of print media to their advantage. They give a vehicle to an automotive writer and let the product speak for itself. The devoted blue oval corner sees this as favouritism by Drive, and then beats down everything that Drive do as a result.

I heard a man say that his EA falcon died, and therefore he would never purchase another Ford again, which I thought was odd given the technology changes since that point in time. Conversely Holden have done the same thing - the VB commodore breaks down, and dies - but people still go back to Holden to get another vehicle.

The same can be said about shoes - how many people have had a nike blow out completely, and yet still go back to the shoe shop to buy another pair?

Houses are the same as well - yeah, you spend 50k on a car, there is a small bare spot in the engine bay...you spend 400k on a house, and the plumbing is screwed. Do you complain to everyone you know (as I have seen many do with cars)? Or do you get it fixed at tell people never to buy a brick veneer house EVER because...?

There is clearly something that the other big business of the world are doing, that Ford is not.

We are so spoilt for choice in Australia, we have so many options of what car we want to buy, yada yada yada, but we fail to stay loyal to a particular brand.

I see the signatures on here saying VW, BMW, Merc, Mini Cooper, Nissan, etc. Is it really any surprise isn't selling, even the 'die hard' ford fans, don't bother supporting the product. They have B series and older models - and have no intention on purchasing a new car, because the indicator is not in the right spot or the colour isn't right. There are 50k+ members on this forum, Ford sell approx 1800 falcons per month. How many have brand new Falcons, or at least latest model Falcons? Or have any interest post 1975 vehicles?

Sure, Ford has a great line-up, but if the word of mouth is 'all I've had is problems', no amount of advertising is going to fix this.

When we look at a company such as Ford, we see a product - very few see behind the scenes of big business and understand the 'corporate bureaucracy' that goes with it. 240 jobs is a lot, but in the scheme of things, this has the potential to save a company around $8 million dollars a year, and that's if staff salary base rate is 32000 a year, and not taking into consideration payroll taxes, workers compensation, etc.

Building insurance, business insurance, public liability insurance.

Inventory holdings, leases, rates, energy costs, research and development. For those who suggest that $15m for a change of positioning of indicator stalk is unrealistic - try and do it for less. There's processes and procedures that many people are not aware of, nor do they care about it - because at the end of the day, they're just a consumer - what do they care how much it costs a company - as long as they get the right price.

[g220ba]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

Depends on how long they've worked there for - generally 4 weeks for every year served.

I would say yes, people are way too critical of Ford.

Ford seem to have developed a bad rap, through what though, I'm not really sure.

When you walk into a dealership, the whole company is on show - if you have a salesman who is not engaged in the business to start off with, you have issues.

People base their decision making on a number of things, the product, the service, the after sales service.

The sales business is fickle, and incredibly incestuous. The salesman you see at Holden today, could be the salesman you see at Ford tomorrow. There's no loyalty with employees or consumers - we as a society are responsible for this.

Advertising is just a small component of the sales process - it implants the idea in someone's head that they want the product. The want becomes a need and the need is satisfied when the product is purchased.

Ford don't focus heavily on advertising, rather they seem to use their products to sell things.

Understandably, if someone buys a product, they want something that is going to be worth their money. The little niggles that I see floating about here are indicative of picky purchasers, they want to see every single cent of their money in the vehicle they have purchased. Small things seem to upset them, and yet Holden have somehow managed to sell their products despite these things.

Drive magazine is a perfect example of this theory in practice. Drive is considered amongst most people as a knowledge base, a place to gain the information required about the desired product.

Now I don't watch television, so I don't know about the advertising schemes that Holden or Ford use on TV, what I do know is that Holden utilise every kind of print media to their advantage. They give a vehicle to an automotive writer and let the product speak for itself. The devoted blue oval corner sees this as favouritism by Drive, and then beats down everything that Drive do as a result.

I heard a man say that his EA falcon died, and therefore he would never purchase another Ford again, which I thought was odd given the technology changes since that point in time. Conversely Holden have done the same thing - the VB commodore breaks down, and dies - but people still go back to Holden to get another vehicle.

The same can be said about shoes - how many people have had a nike blow out completely, and yet still go back to the shoe shop to buy another pair?

Houses are the same as well - yeah, you spend 50k on a car, there is a small bare spot in the engine bay...you spend 400k on a house, and the plumbing is screwed. Do you complain to everyone you know (as I have seen many do with cars)? Or do you get it fixed at tell people never to buy a brick veneer house EVER because...?

There is clearly something that the other big business of the world are doing, that Ford is not.

We are so spoilt for choice in Australia, we have so many options of what car we want to buy, yada yada yada, but we fail to stay loyal to a particular brand.

I see the signatures on here saying VW, BMW, Merc, Mini Cooper, Nissan, etc. Is it really any surprise isn't selling, even the 'die hard' ford fans, don't bother supporting the product. They have B series and older models - and have no intention on purchasing a new car, because the indicator is not in the right spot or the colour isn't right. There are 50k+ members on this forum, Ford sell approx 1800 falcons per month. How many have brand new Falcons, or at least latest model Falcons? Or have any interest post 1975 vehicles?

Sure, Ford has a great line-up, but if the word of mouth is 'all I've had is problems', no amount of advertising is going to fix this.

When we look at a company such as Ford, we see a product - very few see behind the scenes of big business and understand the 'corporate bureaucracy' that goes with it. 240 jobs is a lot, but in the scheme of things, this has the potential to save a company around $8 million dollars a year, and that's if staff salary base rate is 32000 a year, and not taking into consideration payroll taxes, workers compensation, etc.

Building insurance, business insurance, public liability insurance.

Inventory holdings, leases, rates, energy costs, research and development. For those who suggest that $15m for a change of positioning of indicator stalk is unrealistic - try and do it for less. There's processes and procedures that many people are not aware of, nor do they care about it - because at the end of the day, they're just a consumer - what do they care how much it costs a company - as long as they get the right price.

Fantastic post mate

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by g220ba

Fantastic post mate

DAMM Straight!!!

[aussie muscle]

Originally Posted by Sezzy

even the 'die hard' ford fans, don't bother supporting the product. They have B series and older models

but my B series is only just 3 over years old. how often do you update your vehicle?

[SEZ213]

Originally Posted by aussie muscle

but my B series is only just 3 over years old. how often do you update your vehicle?

The other half's FG is sitting in the driveway at the moment.

I wasn't in a position to upgrade my vehicle, and even if I was, I wouldn't buy a Falcon. I'm just over 5' and don't feel comfortable driving such a big car, particularly when I can't see out the back of it...the Fiesta is a different story.

Which puts me in the boat that I have no reason to be harsh or critical towards Ford Australia...that, and I'm not a 'die hard' blue oval fan.

My responses are honest, I'm sorry if I've offended you, however, I was making a point, mainly towards those who yell and scream that the Falcon needs to stay. If their customer base isn't upgrading, they really do face a good chance, that the car will be there no more.

[P6LTD351]

no, people aren't being too harsh in regards to their lack of self promotion

[tezxr8man]

Originally Posted by eb2monty

no, people aren't being too harsh in regards to their lack of self promotion

They do have a lack of slf promotion but it's better than over promotion like those clowns at holden i have been over their advertising for ages, every add brake is rediculus
I think if everyone who owns a ford and loves the product should spread the word of how good they are,positive word of mouth helps a lot more than negativity.
Sure they do things that make you wonder why at times, but we buy them because they are bloody good cars not because of the people running the business

[banarcus]

The Falcon is being shunned by most Australian families. I can't see how they can keep up and adapt with market trends if they still persevere with a large car segment that has been dying a slow death in the last 10 years. The only car that they have built that has had relevance is the Territory but uncle jack (Geoff) is sadly no longer here to make any new relevant model happen.

You only have to look at Ford's market share to see that having a good car, that is better than many others in each segment, is no guarentee that you will survive. If they cannot promote and market their products, they're gone.

Am I disappointed? No. They are a multi billion dollar corporation who build motor vehicles and have been doing so longer than many other car makers in the world today. I am disappointed for their employees whose lives Ford hold in their hands.

[Resurrection]

Q. Are we being too harsh and critical of Ford Australia?
A. No. They deserve the criticism.

[Road_Warrior]

Originally Posted by Resurrection

Q. Are we being too harsh and critical of Ford Australia?
A. No. They deserve the criticism.

I agree, but they don't deserve the pathetic nitpicking from some posters about new products. Seriously if one more person moans about how the SZ Territory is crap because it doesn't come with the 3.0L TD V6 I'm going to go postal (or it should be a bannable offence)

[prydey]

jpd80 - my answer is - absolutely!!

hoden post a loss for many years and all the experts on here are saying they are making cars for no profit ect etc. now they post a profit and suddely the commodore is their bread winner! ford post a profit and yet everyone jumps on the 'falcon is doomed' bandwagon. can't have it boh ways.

for arguments sake, lets say the sales figures are too low to be sustainable/viable. its not the only company in the world that is propping up certain areas of its business off the success of other areas.

many people carry on about marketing as well, but any google search from a prospective buyer will quite possibly find them looking up AFF, and after that, they will never buy a ford. no worse marketing than the so called 'fans' continually sticking the boots in.

[sirlc6]

Originally Posted by prydey

jpd80 - my answer is - absolutely!!

hoden post a loss for many years and all the experts on here are saying they are making cars for no profit ect etc. now they post a profit and suddely the commodore is their bread winner! ford post a profit and yet everyone jumps on the 'falcon is doomed' bandwagon. can't have it boh ways.

for arguments sake, lets say the sales figures are too low to be sustainable/viable. its not the only company in the world that is propping up certain areas of its business off the success of other areas.

many people carry on about marketing as well, but any google search from a prospective buyer will quite possibly find them looking up AFF, and after that, they will never buy a ford. no worse marketing than the so called 'fans' continually sticking the boots in.

Could not agree more. I have only been on here for a couple of months and almost ready to cancel my account because all the complaining done on this site. Flame suit on!
Paul

[DJM83]

People think its all about the falcon, there are plenty more model in the line up that are all advertised pretty well. The falcon isnt though, people (like myself) have made the change to a smaller car that does everything a falcon does and more.
Push the falcon a little more get some decent commercials and SOME AFTER SALES SERVICE.
That said at the end of the day people need to that it is a business and it needs to be run as such, and unfortunately job losses are going to happen.I do feel for the people that might loose their jobs though.

[jpd80]

Quite interesting to see that over the past four months as Falcon sales declined,
there has been a corresponding increases for Fiesta, Focus, Mondeo, Ranger and even Escape too..
I'm wondering whether the nett effect on profit generation for Ford has been unchanged
and that those models manufactured in Asia actually now carry similar profit to discounted XR6s

I think Ford would be having mixed feelings at the moment, glad that other models are
filling the vacuum of lost Falcon sales but also mindful of having to press on with selling
more Falcons with an aggressive priced XR6, pushing new Territory and waiting
expectantly for EcoLPI to come in the near future.

I'm hoping that Ford has a better April and comes to life in May/June to cheer us up,
a bit of good news after the doom and gloom articles always helps to sharpen focus.

As for advertising, I quite like the fuel efficient Fiesta, Focus and Mondeo Advertising triple act,
I think that's more of the kind of advertising Ford needs....

[Kingsley]

Ford only needs to look back it's previous advertising efforts that made them no.1 in the eighties. They were factual, well done and to the point. The arty walking fingers crap was a debacle and really didn't target anyone.

[Buntz]

Yes we are. Ford is trimming the fat on temp workers in the states.

http://www.autoblog.com/2011/04/15/r...t-f-150-plant/

[uranium_death]

At Knox Ford last weekend I had a chat to one of the salespeople there...
Great bloke. He spoke about Ford's product and both agreed on the lack of proper marketing for the Falcon - despite it being a superior car in some respects to the Commodore...

But Holden has created a very favourable perception through sensible marketing.
Ford has hardly pushed Falcon being a family car - Holden is doing that now.

Too many holes.

I think Ford's product is great from what I see, but who knows about it?

[mik]

one of the things that annoys me is holden keep advertising "they go better" when in actual fact....THEY DON`T...... yet we hardly hear a response from ford marketing, you have to give credit to other motor companies for great adds and marketing, the glass blown human add in the the toyota commercial was a ripper............... if anything ford aus deserves a good kick in the bollocks for under promoting a great vehicle, yes they deserve a beating .

[greenfoam]

Imho very few people are will to accept fuel consumption of over 6L/100 these days for a everyday car and those few people that that still thank that's acceptable are also slowly getting a clue and will also refuse the big inefficient cars at some point in the near future. Also there's other things wrong with Ford Australia ie they have no money, don't want to honor warranties because of that and the spare part prices are more than triple the retail on the European Fords, you have to wonder why with the very small shipping costs involved.

They make great cars! but just as a company they are not so great. My father has been waiting to buy a new Territory diesel for months but seeing my recent dealings with Ford not turn out so well he's now considering other cars

[Joe5619]

Did I read somewhere Ford Aust will report results for 2010 next week?? If they make a nice profit, everyone can shut the "F....." up.. But If they make a loss, we might have a problem.. Either way I'll find out next week!!

[Buntz]

Ford need to posh EcoLPi... and push it hard. A large car with small running costs. That should see some people flock back.

[svo supporter]

Love how some members are saying Holden are "over advertising" and their slogan of they go better when they don't.

Those members need to look at how that company has gone. yes, they went through the same process, Ford are currently going through (making people redundant and shift cutting), but it's obvious their advertising campaign is having some sort of impact. They've posted a profit and employed another 100 odd people. So that's not bad for a company that's annoying the beejesus out of you and surposedly lying about their product.

I think what Ford need to do, is produce a small car, in Australia. Not import one, like they are currently doing. They might even need a more aggressive advertising campaign.

Hopefully things pan out in the future. The car manufacturing industry needs it in this country

[Buntz]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

Love how some members are saying Holden are "over advertising" and their slogan of they go better when they don't.

Those members need to look at how that company has gone. yes, they went through the same process, Ford are currently going through (making people redundant and shift cutting), but it's obvious their advertising campaign is having some sort of impact. They've posted a profit and employed another 100 odd people. So that's not bad for a company that's annoying the beejesus out of you and surposedly lying about their product.

I think what Ford need to do, is produce a small car, in Australia. Not import one, like they are currently doing. They might even need a more aggressive advertising campaign.

Hopefully things pan out in the future. The car manufacturing industry needs it in this country

They can't. The market is covered by every other product in Ford's portfolio. And there are cheaper places to make it too.

Ford needs to focus on it's core products. And at a time when fuel is so expensive, they need to be pushing alternatives hard. This also has the benefit of being like nothing else Ford has anywhere else. So if it succeeds... so will Ford's local manufacturing.

[svo supporter]

Originally Posted by Buntz93ED

They can't. The market is covered by every other product in Ford's portfolio. And there are cheaper places to make it too.

Ford needs to focus on it's core products. And at a time when fuel is so expensive, they need to be pushing alternatives hard. This also has the benefit of being like nothing else Ford has anywhere else. So if it succeeds... so will Ford's local manufacturing.

Fair enough cars are cheaper to make overseas, but Holden started by importing the Cruise, now they're making it here. So it is achieveable, as proven by Holden. And to prove it even more, Holden employed another 100+ staff, just to ramp up production of this car and still turned a profit.

I really do think Ford should be taking a leaf out of Holdens book, with this and marketing. I also know, alot of people on this forum may see my posting as "Holden" sprouting and may not like it, but at the end of the day Holden has succeeded turing their business round, surely Ford could do the same.

One other area that would be worth trying, is the export market. Holden are doing it fairly successfully, yet Ford Austraila are just keeping the Falcon as an Aussie specific car. Perhaps that's another area they could look at

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by svo supporter

One other area that would be worth trying, is the export market. Holden are doing it fairly successfully, yet Ford Austraila are just keeping the Falcon as an Aussie specific car. Perhaps that's another area they could look at

What are Holden exporting these days? Thats a serious question too I'm not having a go. Ford Aus cant really export unless given the go ahead from Ford US.

Holden has turned around their fortunes for now but they've barely had to update the Commodore in 5 years. So no major money has been spent on new models. Cruze was mostly paid for by the Government if I recall. And as for assembling it here I remember even the Holden boss at the time said they wouldnt make much money from it.