Quick Question: Laser/Telstar gearboxes

[JeremyK]

Okay so recently I have been having alot of trouble with my Three-Speed Auto in my Telstar, I think it needs to be overhauled, which requires removing the transmission, and that got me thinking!

If I am going to remove the transmission, why don't I just replace it with a better one?

So these are my options:

1. Change to another 3-speed auto exactly the same as this one or get this one refurb'd, whatever is cheaper
-Advantages: Relatively easy to remove and refit the tranny when everything connects up the same
-Disadvantages: It has the worst gear ratios in history and screams on the highway, has no power as its like starting off in second gear (that being said it does quite well!) and uses much more petrol.

2. Change to the ECAT 4-speed auto used on the 2.2L injected motor
-Advantages: Quiter on the highway, engine does alot less revs. More modern transmission and hopefully wont suck 98% of the engines power.
-Disadvantages: The first three gears are as bad as mine in the three-speed. Could be hard to get it working as it is Electronic connecting to a non-electronic motor (I have the carb motor, I think the tranny is controlled by a seperate computer anyway BUT surely it takes some input from the motor? Input that it wouldnt be getting from my motor?)

3. I have a spare KH Laser with a spare 5-speed gearbox in it that works fine, considering the three speeds are the same in the Laser and Telstar, I assume they bolt up the same or at least can be adapted? And that this would also apply to a manual? If this is the case, then option three is to change it to the Lasers 5-speed manual.
-Advantages: Much better ratios resulting in better performance and fuel economy. Also revs less on highway. Also means if this motor ever dies and needs to replaced, I have the option of changing it to the Turbo or the 2.2L Injection or even the diesel without changing the tranny.
-Disadvantages: Time consuming to change it to a manual. Will lose the self shifting which is kind of nice if you cant be assed changing gears.

IF I had unlimited money and time I would probably go for the ECAT 4-speed BUT, I am unsure as to whether I can get it to work with this motor, and if it will eventually die as well, maybe its better to stick with the simple and reliable manual?

Thoughts and help is appreciated!!

[Chief Tool]

Which model of Telstar do you have ? AR/AS or AT/AV ?

The G4EL will not go easily into the AR/AS due to gearbox mountings being different as well as the reason you mention. There is a version of the box (G4HL) that isn't electronic but they'd be very hard to get I expect.

Re fitting a reconditioned 3sp is going to be easiest and cheapest. Otherwise converting to Manual is probably the way to go. Bear in mind that the laser uses a different bell pattern so the gearbox wont bolt up to the FE engine in the Telstar.

You can get more info over at www.freeforum101.com/tx5

[JeremyK]

Originally Posted by Chief Tool

Which model of Telstar do you have ? AR/AS or AT/AV ?

The G4EL will not go easily into the AR/AS due to gearbox mountings being different as well as the reason you mention. There is a version of the box (G4HL) that isn't electronic but they'd be very hard to get I expect.

Re fitting a reconditioned 3sp is going to be easiest and cheapest. Otherwise converting to Manual is probably the way to go. Bear in mind that the laser uses a different bell pattern so the gearbox wont bolt up to the FE engine in the Telstar.

You can get more info over at www.freeforum101.com/tx5

Its an AT with the 2.0L Carb motor

So Ill rule out converting to 4 speed, so its either replace with another three speed or rebuild this one or convert to manual. Ive had a look at both gearbox's bolt patterns, and without measuring or anything they look a little alike but I would have to measure them. Would it be possible to do it if I had an adapter plate?

Thanks!

Actually, I will go into more detail about what is wrong with my gearbox:

1- It is very difficult to get it out of park sometimes, I think this is probably just the selector level not being quite lined up, easy to adjust that.
2- It sometimes is difficult to get it in reverse too, again probably selector.
3- When COLD the transmission runs reasonably well, but it does seem to suck an awful amount of power. It will idle in neutral at 1250 rpm and put in drive and it drops to 650 rpm??
4- When HOT, this is when problems arise! Shift changing is pretty jerky, not smooth at all. Changing from reverse to drive or vice versa gives you a nice horrible clunk and the whole car shakes. Sometimes second gear slips out a bit, particularly changing out of third into second it revs right up and then changes.
5- It often changes into second very quickly, like it goes first and then almost immediatly into second and its very hard to get the car moving, so you put your foot to the floor and it jerks itself back into first but its annoying as when its in first power is good, so when you floor it you find yourself looking like a hoon as the car is flying, but if you decrease throttle pressure it goes straight back into second again and your back to square 1!!

SO unless anyone has suggestions of fixing these problems Im probably just going to have to remove it and rebuild or replace.

[Chief Tool]

Originally Posted by JeremyK

Ive had a look at both gearbox's bolt patterns, and without measuring or anything they look a little alike but I would have to measure them. Would it be possible to do it if I had an adapter plate?

Considering that used gearboxes to suit an FE motor in an AT wont be very expensive I wouldn't worry about trying to use your Laser gearbox. There are guys on the TX5 forum who have been giving them away before.

You could use the back half of the gearbox and use an F series bell with it but that'd mean pulling the box apart and re doing the bearing preloads.
Still not worth it in the context of above.

The front gearbox mount is attached to the bell section so if you used a B series bell you would still need to make your own mount.

[JeremyK]

Originally Posted by Chief Tool

Considering that used gearboxes to suit an FE motor in an AT wont be very expensive I wouldn't worry about trying to use your Laser gearbox. There are guys on the TX5 forum who have been giving them away before.

You could use the back half of the gearbox and use an F series bell with it but that'd mean pulling the box apart and re doing the bearing preloads.
Still not worth it in the context of above.

The front gearbox mount is attached to the bell section so if you used a B series bell you would still need to make your own mount.

Okay so that eliminates using the lasers gearbox, I thought it was worth a shot at least :P

This week at the wreckers is half price gearboxes which is sort coincedental, and thats why I plan on getting to the bottom of this issue. The other problem is I have to get all the gearbox linkages and pedal box and so on for the telstar, is there anything I can use from the laser here that will save cash/time?

Is it better to keep the basic block and head from my car and fit injection to it, and that way I can fit the ECAT gearbox to it? I know these 2.0L engines had injection in NZ so it must be possible, I think if I get it from a late model econovan or a courier or b2000 or e2000, they all had injected engines thanks to tightened emmisions regulations, but they have the same basic block and I think in some cases even the head is the same as my car, so it must be possible to do that? Many will say its better just to replace the whole motor but, I dunno haha, this one hasn't done many ks so yeah.

Or do I go all out and replace the whole motor and gearbox as a whole. Ive considered putting the Lasers 1.6 in this car but it probably wont fit nor be powerful enough plus its done 276000ks.

If I do go to the effort of replacing the motor, which is the best bet to get it working, and will give me the best blend of power and economy and reliability. Im actually really tempted by the diesel engine as this is my roadtrip car so diesel is good for economy, its good for torque, so towing, and good for reliability, problem is rareness of them! But I have other options, the 2.2L is the easiest to get and most popular, and the 2.2L Turbo is my dream because of the power, but the problem with both of those motors could be getting them working in my car? And in the case of the turbo, rareness!

[Chief Tool]

The motors aren't that rare.
You may find TX5 forum members have a 2.2 (F2) or a 2.2 turbo (F2T) laying around in their garage that they would sell you for cheap. They come up on eBay from time to time.
If you want to do the engine change it is easiest to plonk the whole F2 into the car, rather than swap heads. The head swap has been done successfully before though.

If I were you I'd buy a whole car and strip off the parts you need to do the swap. This is the cheapest way to do it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MAZDA-626...item2ec7156082

There is a diesel Capella on ebay at the moment : http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mazda-626...item3380f72468

They are a slug though. Not really that good for towing. I know because I have one. The supercharged diesel might be a bit better. The fuel economy is good.

[JeremyK]

Originally Posted by Chief Tool

The motors aren't that rare.
You may find TX5 forum members have a 2.2 (F2) or a 2.2 turbo (F2T) laying around in their garage that they would sell you for cheap. They come up on eBay from time to time.
If you want to do the engine change it is easiest to plonk the whole F2 into the car, rather than swap heads. The head swap has been done successfully before though.

If I were you I'd buy a whole car and strip off the parts you need to do the swap. This is the cheapest way to do it.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/MAZDA-626...item2ec7156082

There is a diesel Capella on ebay at the moment : http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Mazda-626...item3380f72468

They are a slug though. Not really that good for towing. I know because I have one. The supercharged diesel might be a bit better. The fuel economy is good.

Im sort of half half, Im not sure if I really want to go to the effort of replacing the whole motor! But then again this one has been such a problem child that Im over it!!

Maybe Ill ask around the TX5 people and see if anyones got a spare motor, if I am going to go to the effort of doing it Ill go either the diesel or the turbo!

Power is not my main priority, anything is faster than this crappy carby car, fuel economy is more my priority and towing capacity but there is only so much the tow bar will take anyway lol.

If I want power Ill drive my V6 Eunos haha BUT I would like this car to actually move in traffic, it is very difficult to get this one going, I think its mostly down to the transmission!

[JeremyK]

Okay update guys.

I adjusted the brake band on the car which really helped power, it sucks alot less of the engines power but second gear stopped working, until randomly it started working again haha. This tranny is cactus.

However, I still want to change it, I dont want to change the motor, Ive decided, but I do want to change the transmission, but I want a 4 speed auto. It must be possible to convert mine to it? Someone on the TX5 forums said to make it work I will need:

The Auto ECU will need a TPS (Throttle Position Sensor) Signal
-This is easy enough, I can add that onto the carby's throttle
-Speed Signal, can someone elaborate? What is that? Is it a little sensor that connects onto the speedometer, the speedo cable or somewhere in the gearbox? Will I need to change my instrument cluster (200kph) to the 240kph one used in the 2.2L engine with this gearbox?
-Idle switch or throttle closed switch, easy as the carby already has this built in but its easy to add another one if I need to.

So can anyone else elaborate on what else it will need? No Vacuum Pipes? I guess not as its all electronic! Will I need the 2.2Ls ECU as it will be the one that sorts out the TPS sensor and sends that info to the gearbox, no? Or does the TPS connect directly to the gearbox.

The TX5 forums guy said it probably wont ever work completely properly, look thats fine, as long as all 4 gears work in a reasonably good order and thats good enough for me!

Will the gearbox work somewhat, like a limp home mode, so if all else fails I can just drive the car somewhere to fix it?