Tax the rich?

[turbodewd]

So Joe Hockey is planning to raise income tax on us in the Fed budget in 2 weeks. Great!

Meanwhile the following still occurs:

* those in the criminal economy dont pay income tax
* many/most of the very rich dont pay income tax
* those in the cash economy pay some or no income tax

Great!

But at least these 3 groups pay GST. When they visit Maccas, buy a Maserati or fly from Syd to Cairns. Even if a company or other entity they control pays for these things the GST is still being paid.

I challenge anyone here to tell me why income tax should be raised for you and me while the 3 groups above wont do a shred of heavy lifting on budget night.

Solution: raise the GST, broaden it. If it hurts some grannies, raise the pension.

[Trevor 57]

Amanda Vanstone was on the morning ABC news this morning, she was a co-author of the Commission of Audit report, it was funny as hell when she was asked to give up some of post-political life perks, she wasn't a fan at all - hmmmmm, hypocrisy?

[bungarra]

The more you earn, the more they screw you. Doesn't pay to work hard anymore and do overtime or get more qualifications to earn better pay. You just beocme the whipping post for governments.

[mcnews]

Originally Posted by bungarra

The more you earn, the more they screw you. Doesn't pay to work hard anymore and do overtime or get more qualifications to earn better pay. You just beocme the whipping post for governments.

image

What planet do you live on?

Is it not right and proper that those of us who do well pay our share to help out those less fortunate?

It really pees me off to see how mean spirited this country is becoming. And the more easy people are doing it the more mean spirited they get it seems.

I had a friend recently, a good hard working woman in the country, she got sick through no fault of her own, she was flown from Broken Hill to Adelaide for treatment etc. without no real out of pocket costs.

I put up a friend of mine who has come down with crippling arthritis due to some weird infection that all manner of drugs has failed to treat, he lived in a caravan with his dogs at the top of my hill largely shooting rabbit and deer to feed him and his two dogs. He had no welfare at all, I basically forced him after two years of getting no benefits to get advice on how to wind up his business so he can get access to disability etc. He now finally is on disability and getting some support.

Things like this make me proud to be in Australia.

When I get my tax bill (which is normally a fairly hefty five figures) I don't carry on like a poor downtrodden demented ranter oh woe is me my life is so hard and I have to pay so much just to support everyone else else etc. etc. dribble, cough. I see it as fair and proper. Wake up and smell the roses you one dimensional whingers.

[bungarra]

Originally Posted by mcnews

What planet do you live on?

One where I have had to earn every dollar, fell out of work on good pay due to the "recession we had to have" and picked up a job flipping burgers at night and cleaning buildings in the early morning both jobs at a lower pay than I was used to. It is called taking and making opportunities and not sitting on my a#%# hoping for the dole and waiting for the "right" job.

Originally Posted by mcnews

Is it not right and proper that those of us who do well pay our share to help out those less fortunate?.

I don't mind helping those who need it not those who just expect to sit on the dole for a year or more.

Originally Posted by mcnews

It really pees me off to see how mean spirited this country is becoming. And the more easy people are doing it the more mean spirited they get it seems.

Nothing about being mean at all, a lot of people believe they deserve to be on the dole. I know of at least 8 families where they are all totally ripping off the welfare system sitting on the dole and doing cashies, Centrelink are never able to catch them. Everyone from the 50 year old grandparents to the 13 year old daughter who is a single mum with her second on the way and can't tell who eithers dad is and are proud of their "rightful" lifestyle as they put it. They are just bludgers and their are many out there the same.

What about the uni grad or person who has finished their degree or highschool who will sit on the dole and say "That isn't the job I like or studied for" when they get offered a job that is "beneath" them such as flipping a burger, working cleaning buildings etc, prefer being on the dole than taking any job and showing initiative as it is always easier to get a job when you are in one than when you sit on your a@$# all day for a year or more.

Originally Posted by mcnews

I had a friend recently, a good hard working woman in the country, she got sick through no fault of her own, she was flown from Broken Hill to Adelaide for treatment etc. without no real out of pocket costs. .

That is why we pay high taxes already and are one of the highest taxed nations in the OECD and why we have Medicare to ensure people like your friend recieve appropriate medica assistance.

Originally Posted by mcnews

I put up a friend of mine who has come down with crippling arthritis due to some weird infection that all manner of drugs has failed to treat, he lived in a caravan with his dogs at the top of my hill largely shooting rabbit and deer to feed him and his two dogs. He had no welfare at all, I basically forced him after two years of getting no benefits to get advice on how to wind up his business so he can get accss to disability etc. He now finally is on disability and getting some support.

That is what most mates would do but most would have got him some support from Centrelink or one of the many other agencies a lot earlier than two years down the track to easse his burden.

Originally Posted by mcnews

When I get my tax bill (which is normally a fairly hefty five figures) I don't carry on like a poor downtrodden demented ranter oh woe is me my life is so hard and I have to pay so much just to support everyone else else etc. etc. dribble, cough. I see it as fair and proper. Wake up and smell the roses you one dimensional whingers.

I get a 5 figure tax bill too, but I am sick of hearing how there is so many people out of work, yet many will not take any job offer as it is beneath them or the welfare milkers like the single mum with 4 kids to 4 different fathers before she is 20 or the druggie with the meth lab in government sponsored housing living on the dole making a 220K income off meth every year.

Help those that genuinely need it but no one personneeds to be out of work more than two years if they are physically capable of working.

90% of people over the last 5 years I have interviewed for technical and non technical roles have, turned up and admitted they needed a sign off for their dole form, some needed a shower and to wear non ripped clothes, were under the influence of alcohol, drugs or both. Now if they turn up like that, I just inform Centelink of their appearance, behaviour or state of inebriation.

Mcnews, If I am a one dimensional whinger as you state, you obvioulsy live in a world of unlimited money or one without welfare cheats and believe those who work hardest need to pay for those that don't want to work, which is different to helping those that genuinely need help.

[Dash_XR]

Don't need to tax the rich more, just start taxing companies properly.

One of endless examples..
http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2014-0...evenue/5303426

[M&Ms]

The 2 problems in this country are:
1. The rich (companies and people) getting away with paying minimum tax possible
2. Too many people rorting the welfare system and not bothering to do their bit for society (1 million people on the disability pension, and increasing by 10,000 per month!! how many are genuinely deserving of this fund I ask?)

THE solution? Drop income tax altogether, and bump up the GST to compensate (be it to 15% or 20%), that way everyone pays based on their spending spree. AND, tighten the system, stop being a nation of givers. Some Asylum seekers who arrived in this country 10 years ago are still earning benefits and haven't worked a day in their lives! IMO, 3 months support, then you're on your own... that's how it is in the U.S.A.

[Windsor220]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

The 2 problems in this country are:
1. The rich (companies and people) getting away with paying minimum tax possible
2. Too many people rorting the welfare system and not bothering to do their bit for society (1 million people on the disability pension, and increasing by 10,000 per month!! how many are genuinely deserving of this fund I ask?)

THE solution? Drop income tax altogether, and bump up the GST to compensate (be it to 15% or 20%), that way everyone pays based on their spending spree. AND, tighten the system, stop being a nation of givers. Some Asylum seekers who arrived in this country 10 years ago are still earning benefits and haven't worked a day in their lives! IMO, 3 months support, then you're on your own... that's how it is in the U.S.A.

What happens if everyone stops spending.

[M&Ms]

Originally Posted by Windsor220

What happens if everyone stops spending.

Why would they when they have more disposable income??

[MattstaF6]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

The 2 problems in this country are:
1. The rich (companies and people) getting away with paying minimum tax possible
2. Too many people rorting the welfare system and not bothering to do their bit for society (1 million people on the disability pension, and increasing by 10,000 per month!! how many are genuinely deserving of this fund I ask?)

THE solution? Drop income tax altogether, and bump up the GST to compensate (be it to 15% or 20%), that way everyone pays based on their spending spree. AND, tighten the system, stop being a nation of givers. Some Asylum seekers who arrived in this country 10 years ago are still earning benefits and haven't worked a day in their lives! IMO, 3 months support, then you're on your own... that's how it is in the U.S.A.

Mate im with you

[Trump]

The top end of town is safe from any of govcos debt and deficit reduction "initiatives".
The system is not set up to have the hard and smart working reap the rewards of their efforts. It is set up to benefit the unproductive top at the expense of those lower down on the economic foodchain.

That chart reckoning that those on $265k and up contribute 17% of tax is hogwash. They have the resources to move their money into untaxable or very low tax vehicles. Not only that, the expenses they incur in moving their money around are fully tax deductible.

If they were serious about balancing the books and restoring some sense of fairness and equality in this country, they would get rid of every single loophole and tax avoidance instrument that benefits the top of the finanicial ladder, introduce 100% reserve banking (replacing fractional reserve banking parasitism), eliminate all middle and upper class welfare, shrink government to the point where it is just big enough to provide for the essentials.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

shrink government to the point where it is just big enough to provide for the essentials.

Sounds good but how do you tell a politician to sack themselves and go out and find a real job lol.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

Sounds good but how do you tell a politician to sack themselves and go out and find a real job lol.

Have a million march on Canberra and blockade the place until they leave.

It goes beyond that though. Every post political career perk and benefit needs to disappear, they are completely unjustified and a massive drain on public resources.

The public service is loaded with dead wood in govco departments of total uselessness. They need to go, plain and simple.

Had Abbott and Co been serious about an audit of govco, they would have put in people from all walks of life and not loaded the commission with muppets like Vanstone and the talking heads representing the aforementioned top end of town.

[Dash_XR]

Originally Posted by Loud_Noises

Have a million march on Canberra and blockade the place until they leave.

They did that in Ukraine and it kinda backfired, but completely agree the same level of service could probably be achieved by half the amount of people.

We have such a stable government though aside from killing people in the street the can pretty much get away with anything and they know this.

[Trump]

Originally Posted by Dash_XR

They did that in Ukraine and it kinda backfired, but completely agree the same level of service could probably be achieved by half the amount of people.

Unlike the Ukraine, we don't have the sheep shaggers across the ditch salivating to take over a la Russia

Sheep jokes aside, govco and its associates are taking full advantage of the apathy they helped create over the course of the past forty years. The Vietnam War era of political activism scared the crap out of them and as such, they needed to do something to get rid of such a mentality.

[Starlightblue]

Tax the churches and all religions

Problem fixed

Why should they get a free ride?

[Focused]

Originally Posted by Starlightblue

Tax the churches and all religions

Problem fixed

Why should they get a free ride?

You mean like the Salvos and St Vinnies? 23 of Australia's largest 25 charities are Christian so if they're all going to get tougher tax restrictions, who's going to look after the less fortunate?
Centrelink and the public heath care system (the latter of which is also partially funded by the Catholic church)...?
It's all well and good bagging them out for big buildings and gold chairs, but in the end of the day, they're the only people doing anything. When was the last time anyone where volunteered their time at a soup kitchen?
*Note I'm not Catholic.

Ohhh I can see this thread being closed shortly.

Is it not right and proper that those of us who do well pay our share to help out those less fortunate?

It really pees me off to see how mean spirited this country is becoming. And the more easy people are doing it the more mean spirited they get it seems.

I had a friend recently, a good hard working woman in the country, she got sick through no fault of her own, she was flown from Broken Hill to Adelaide for treatment etc. without no real out of pocket costs.

I put up a friend of mine who has come down with crippling arthritis due to some weird infection that all manner of drugs has failed to treat, he lived in a caravan with his dogs at the top of my hill largely shooting rabbit and deer to feed him and his two dogs. He had no welfare at all, I basically forced him after two years of getting no benefits to get advice on how to wind up his business so he can get access to disability etc. He now finally is on disability and getting some support.

Things like this make me proud to be in Australia.

I'd mostly agree although some reforms are needed to the dole and the DSP. I work in the health care system and some people's reasons for being on the DSP are not only bad for the country (costs money) but they're also bad for the patient because they could easily work and the sense of achievement and independence would do far more for their mood problem than a tablet. Therapeutic 'forced-to-work' would genuinely be beneficial for a lot of people on the DSP with minor mental health problems. Unfortunately some dodgy psychiatrists and GPs sign anything...

[Starlightblue]

[QUOTE=Focused;5087975]You mean like the Salvos and St Vinnies? 23 of Australia's largest 25 charities are Christian so if they're all going to get tougher tax restrictions, who's going to look after the less fortunate?
Centrelink and the public heath care system (the latter of which is also partially funded by the Catholic church)...?
It's all well and good bagging them out for big buildings and gold chairs, but in the end of the day, they're the only people doing anything. When was the last time anyone where volunteered their time at a soup kitchen?
*Note I'm not Catholic.



No not talking about salvos etc.

Im talking about the ministers driving BMWs and G6E turbos that change them over every 3 years tax free. I'm talking about the churches and mosques that are the size of Shopping centres. Really looks like they are struggling like the rest of us.......not

We could use some of the taxed monies for the soup kitchen

[chevypower]

Originally Posted by Starlightblue

Tax the churches and all religions

Problem fixed

Why should they get a free ride?

Hey I'm religious and I go to church. I pay the same income taxes everyone else does. Are you suggesting the church entity should have to pay tax in addition to all its members paying income tax, sales taxes, and every other kind of applicable tax?

[gtfpv]

Originally Posted by chevypower

hey i'm religious and i go to church. I pay the same income taxes everyone else does. Are you suggesting the church entity should have to pay tax in addition to all its members paying income tax, sales taxes, and every other kind of applicable tax?

yes definately My friend is a dedicated senior jehovas witness , and he says they pay tax even as they dont have too cause they believe special privelages for religion is rubbish , so they voluntarily pay tax on thier donations recieved as an income , and all thier ministers pay taxes as well . so he tells me.

I PAY ALL MY TAXES AND SALES TAXES FEES ETC , and i have anet income left , if i pay a mechanic to service my car , he has to pay tax out of what i pay him , even though i've already paid tax out of what i earn . WHY SHOULD A CHURCH BE ANY DIFFERENT

[Lotte]

Originally Posted by chevypower

Hey I'm religious and I go to church. I pay the same income taxes everyone else does. Are you suggesting the church entity should have to pay tax in addition to all its members paying income tax, sales taxes, and every other kind of applicable tax?

I work at an employer who employs other people as well.
We all pay tax on various forms.
Should my employer pay tax? Simple answer is yes.
Churches/religious organisations make money. And a lot of it. They're basically a business, without the downfall of paying tax on profits.

[GT0132]

Arguably a large slice of the deficit created by labour was caused by the generous stimulus handouts given to certain individuals that met a certain criteria.

Rather than impose a debt tax, why not firstly ask those individuals to repay the lump sums they were given?

Then once that has all been paid back , we can assess the state of the deficit and the need for further taxes.

[Work Horse]

Originally Posted by GT0132

Arguably a large slice of the deficit created by labour was caused by the generous stimulus handouts given to certain individuals that met a certain criteria.

Rather than impose a debt tax, why not firstly ask those individuals to repay the lump sums they were given?

Then once that has all been paid back , we can assess the state of the deficit and the need for further taxes.

The deficit is currently about $300 billion.

The cost of cash handouts, including to all tax payers earning less than $80,000 was $12.4 billion.

So handing them back would knock about 4% of the deficit.

It would also cause an economic down turn that may lead to a recession.

I wonder if it is a good idea?

[FPVS3]

Originally Posted by Starlightblue

Tax the churches and all religions

Problem fixed

Why should they get a free ride?

And, tax the companies they own. A religious group here owns a large company and pay no taxes. Classed as a "charity".

[MattstaF6]

Most of the people on benefits work cash in hand anyways. I think that at least 40% of the people on benefits are ripping the system.
Its a joke. There are people on disability pensions that can work but play it up and ruin it for the legit ones.
The government had an idea I thought was perfect a while ago. People on benefits receive a card like a debit card that people can only use on food and the important things that are needed. Not smokes and alcohol. That may get them working and paying taxes

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by MattstaF6

Most of the people on benefits work cash in hand anyways. I think that at least 40% of the people on benefits are ripping the system.
Its a joke. There are people on disability pensions that can work but play it up and ruin it for the legit ones.
The government had an idea I thought was perfect a while ago. People on benefits receive a card like a debit card that people can only use on food and the important things that are needed. Not smokes and alcohol. That may get them working and paying taxes

I agree with this, but the problem is govco receive a nice cut from booze and tobacco sales and its those ones you describe of that are the biggest spenders of such vices, i.e. reap the most profit from. Implement this kind of scheme and you will find it will be bought out by those industries to NOT come into fruition for said reasons.

Money talks in this system. Anything can be canned....for a price.

[woteva]

Originally Posted by blueoval

I agree with this, but the problem is govco receive a nice cut from booze and tobacco sales and its those ones you describe of that are the biggest spenders of such vices, i.e. reap the most profit from. Implement this kind of scheme and you will find it will be bought out by those industries to NOT come into fruition for said reasons.

Money talks in this system. Anything can be canned....for a price.

Government already have a system in place. Most of the indigenous population who are on benefits get their money via a 'Basics card'. Just like an eftpos card but can't purchase things such as Tobacca, Alcohol or gambling etc. They could apply it more widely I think.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/cust...ent/basicscard

Originally Posted by MattstaF6

Sorry mate but I fail to see what that has to do with anything. I could say the opposite and say that people who move out and are renting and causing house prices to go up as people are prepared to pay more for a home because they will get help paying it off.

Yeah me either. You still pay tax and what not. Not sure how it is relevant.

[blueoval]

Originally Posted by woteva

Government already have a system in place. Most of the indigenous population who are on benefits get their money via a 'Basics card'. Just like an eftpos card but can't purchase things such as Tobacca, Alcohol or gambling etc. They could apply it more widely I think.

http://www.humanservices.gov.au/cust...ent/basicscard

Im all for it, Im just sceptical & cynical because I believe the alcohol and tobacco industry is too rich and powerful to let this happen if it meant a reduction in profits, especially if it meant that govco was to get a reduction of their hand outs from it too.

Plus I reckon if this did happen, govco would rort (tax) other areas of need heavier to help compensate for the shortfall in tobacco/alcohol sales.

[woteva]

Originally Posted by blueoval

Im all for it, Im just sceptical & cynical because I believe the alcohol and tobacco industry is too rich and powerful to let this happen if it meant a reduction in profits, especially if it meant that govco was to get a reduction of their hand outs from it too.

Plus I reckon if this did happen, govco would rort (tax) other areas of need heavier to help compensate for the shortfall in tobacco/alcohol sales.

Yeah I see your point. If the government loses revenue anywhere they'll go looking for it somewhere else. Personally I think middle class welfare needs to be drastically slashed!

[monte.b]

I think one of the silly ideas is extending the pension age to 70 ,i just cant figure where they are going to make money out of that ,lets face it, all the tradesmen and laborers will be worn out by the time they turn 65 and then go onto a disability pension ,so where is the savings ,do they think everybody works in an office pushing buttons all day and not only that but they will get more money on the disability pension .The other thing i dont like is the paid parental rubbish ,nobody paid us to have 4 kids and educate them ,if people cant afford kids ,dont have any ,why should i have to pay other people to have babies ,as it is at the moment and abbots idea is worse ,tax companies to pay people to have babies they cant afford ,stupid idea ,they need to cut out some of the federal depts that they already have in the states ,why have a fed education dept with 3000 people that dont teach anybody anything and achieve nothing ,they have no schools ,no teachers ,just a lot of bums sitting around a computer all day drinking coffee .I do agree that the people on welfare need to be tightened up a bit ,lots of young blokes here on the dole and there is jobs if you want one .Maybe also they need to bring out random alcohol and drug tests for these people as we have at our workplace ,they cant work if they are stoned or ****ed all day