Brakes perfomance testing.

[mick taylor]

I remember looking at some car mags, one had a XB Falcon 250 and showing in the test back then was the stopping distance from 80km/h 50km/h. so why don't they state such nowadays ?

It would be interesting for me to have such information and not only that but also what other pad materials tested would prove.

The brakes on my car are stock still and they are as powerful as that if one sitting passenger did not have a seat belt on I am sure one could end up putting their head through the windscreen at 110km/h I even smashed the foot rest the first time I jumped on the brakes full on at 110km/h.

Now I have used many different brake pads over the years from stock types to HP types and I know that most people have no idea what such a difference such can do for braking performance. and I have not even started talking past just the pad material here yet.

So I first got a XG Falcon ute in 1993 and they had shocking brake performance with brake fade easy done they were so hopeless that from 210km/h cold they would get total brake fade by 60km/h if you went for it, so then I asked around what is the go with such rubbish brakes remember they are 4 wheel disc. but every brake specialist I talked to were all idiots they put in X and then I come back and say it's much the same rubbish, so then I picked a metal king as that was the top shelf that I could get hp pad from Bendix for the XG and wow I had great brakes now. then I got a 1995 VS Commodore and put the top shelf hp and boy they were much better again. I am sure that from 200km/h to stop with just such pads I could stop in the distance that a normal car could from 110km/h. but can anyone prove this is a fact or reasonable assumption.

But I have not seen any testing proving such, only rubbish like 120km/h or so over others , but the big difference is truly in the 200km/h story , so have a stock ABS ED Falcon say with std pads and all and then move up the ladder from their to prove the point of facts reality.

I have seen old test with motorbikes with braking test as well, even dirt bikes were tested.

[Vesper Martini]

I think for such info you need to subscribe to one of the car magazine sites and read the reviews

https://www.whichcar.com.au/events/c...-stop-the-best

but carmakers probably don't want to publish such figures to cover them legally.

PS IMO tyres probably make more difference than brake pads

[foxtrot3]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

I remember looking at some car mags, one had a XB Falcon 250 and showing in the test back then was the stopping distance from 80km/h 50km/h. so why don't they state such nowadays ?

It would be interesting for me to have such information and not only that but also what other pad materials tested would prove.

The brakes on my car are stock still and they are as powerful as that if one sitting passenger did not have a seat belt on I am sure one could end up putting their head through the windscreen at 110km/h I even smashed the foot rest the first time I jumped on the brakes full on at 110km/h.

Now I have used many different brake pads over the years from stock types to HP types and I know that most people have no idea what such a difference such can do for braking performance. and I have not even started talking past just the pad material here yet.

So I first got a XG Falcon ute in 1993 and they had shocking brake performance with brake fade easy done they were so hopeless that from 210km/h cold they would get total brake fade by 60km/h if you went for it, so then I asked around what is the go with such rubbish brakes remember they are 4 wheel disc. but every brake specialist I talked to were all idiots they put in X and then I come back and say it's much the same rubbish, so then I picked a metal king as that was the top shelf that I could get hp pad from Bendix for the XG and wow I had great brakes now. then I got a 1995 VS Commodore and put the top shelf hp and boy they were much better again. I am sure that from 200km/h to stop with just such pads I could stop in the distance that a normal car could from 110km/h. but can anyone prove this is a fact or reasonable assumption.

But I have not seen any testing proving such, only rubbish like 120km/h or so over others , but the big difference is truly in the 200km/h story , so have a stock ABS ED Falcon say with std pads and all and then move up the ladder from their to prove the point of facts reality.

I have seen old test with motorbikes with braking test as well, even dirt bikes were tested.

Hi. Did you ever notice that when clod the metalking brake pads were next to useless. The type of pad materiel you use can come back to a lot of different reasons for using one over the other. A std bendix pad worked well when cold up to a "normal" temp and the occasional excursion above that normal would do it no harm, take it up there too many times and it becomes hard and noisy
and wants to fade more often. I ran metalkings in my XE van and had to ride the brakes for the first 50 metres to get them hot enough to stop at the end of my street but after that they were fine all day. Now days with more traffic on the roads I find a std type pad is all I need as I dont do the "show off" type of driving now days and with the bigger brakes they just dont get as hot. Cheers MD

[Franco Cozzo]

Remsa HPT are a good pad, rated to 650 degrees Celsius.

There's a ceramic version for the boffins upset over dusty wheels but it's rated to 550 degrees.

Which are better than Bendix GCT anyway, these days all Bendix is, is a marketing company that slaps their brand on **** coming out of various factories in cheap manufacturing countries with a very token effort coming out of the Ballarat factory so they don't have to pay the clean-up bill for their environmentally ruined production site.

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by foxtrot3

Hi. Did you ever notice that when clod the metalking brake pads were next to useless. The type of pad materiel you use can come back to a lot of different reasons for using one over the other. A std bendix pad worked well when cold up to a "normal" temp and the occasional excursion above that normal would do it no harm, take it up there too many times and it becomes hard and noisy
and wants to fade more often. I ran metalkings in my XE van and had to ride the brakes for the first 50 metres to get them hot enough to stop at the end of my street but after that they were fine all day. Now days with more traffic on the roads I find a std type pad is all I need as I dont do the "show off" type of driving now days and with the bigger brakes they just dont get as hot. Cheers MD

Yes when cold the HP pads are not as good when hitting them hard at low speeds 70km/h or so first up, cant say I found such a problem tho but for once with bendix ultimate like that cold.

Yes some std pads can chew up and gouge out your rotors real bad if you push them too hard as temps rise to high for the pad to handle.

It would be interesting to see the temps of the rotor with speed and braking torque ratings, I am sure that a hp pad would generate less heat maybe to the rotor at about were the std type pad heat would rise above at the same speeds and pressure of torque load.
I seen plenty with black and blue rotors that the work load was nothing to a HP pad had been put through.
I am just talking about basic cars brakes here so far and not all the top end HP big dollar stuff yet as that's another ball game, I am just trying to keep it poverty stuff for now.

I think Bendix Metal king came out in 1975 and some changes would of been made as time went by. I remember how bad brakes became when they banded the magic asbestos.

The VS Holden Commodores ran a Bendix pad that was real good std pad but it was way better than the std Bendix you could buy at the time, so Holden used a better quality pad then std bendix at the time and the std bendix at the time that mechanics replaced the originals with were the lower spec rubbish, shocking rubbish they were as my wife's dad being a mechanic replaced the pads on her VS Commodore and when we went on a trip loaded up and came back home I put the brakes to the test, it did not have ABS and so I took it up to 110km/h and just slammed on the brakes and it did not even lock up and it came to a stop in a pathetic way.
What Rubbish pads shocking rubbish that just should not be on a car for a start, said to her dad about my opinion was of such and a brake repair worker relation of his and both think nothing of it.
They never had any complaints of such and I said that's because such people don't know any better.

I said to the relation I was using and he said that they were rubbish you don't want then as they will chew your rotors out.

I said I could not give a rats about my rotors they are very cheap insurance and bloody good value in my books when I was doing 50.000km a year. 2 sets of pads and then just toss new rotors and new pads on cheap as, best value for money I ever spent in my life and here they are running around in circles crying about how much it will sting me.

[JasonACT]

*They* say brakes are so good these days, red-light cameras should have you slamming them on rather than dashing through an orange light, otherwise - ping, your loss, one way or the other. Great, but in my last car I'm behind a new car, who's sleeping at the lights just gone green, they move forward and then slam on the brake when it turns yellow. I nearly hit them.

Why they tuned traffic lights to switch so quickly when no other cars were around can only be described as fraud!

I wrote to the police once (later on, with my highway trip back to the ACT from Vic. in my 2012 XR6T) going through the 60 zone Canberra city which is full of red light cameras. I had seen two flashes! One was it changing red, the next was it getting me for speeding because I pushed down on the accelerator a bit right at the end of the intersection. The fine wasn't for running a red light.

The day after I wrote to them about it, there was an article in the Canberra times about how good new cars are that you should slam on the brakes when you see them turn yellow. Nice one guys, you're such a pack of morons, public safety... let's put out a statement.

Now the zones in the city are all 40km/h. $$$'s!

2021 cars have super-brakes now, didn't you know? There's no need to spec. them. It would only cause trouble (for everyone else but you!)

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

*They* say brakes are so good these days, red-light cameras should have you slamming them on rather than dashing through an orange light, otherwise - ping, your loss, one way or the other. Great, but in my last car I'm behind a new car, who's sleeping at the lights just gone green, they move forward and then slam on the brake when it turns yellow. I nearly hit them.

Why they tuned traffic lights to switch so quickly when no other cars were around can only be described as fraud!

I wrote to the police once (later on, with my highway trip back to the ACT from Vic. in my 2012 XR6T) going through the 60 zone Canberra city which is full of red light cameras. I had seen two flashes! One was it changing red, the next was it getting me for speeding because I pushed down on the accelerator a bit right at the end of the intersection. The fine wasn't for running a red light.

The day after I wrote to them about it, there was an article in the Canberra times about how good new cars are that you should slam on the brakes when you see them turn yellow. Nice one guys, you're such a pack of morons, public safety... let's put out a statement.

Now the zones in the city are all 40km/h. $$$'s!

2021 cars have super-brakes now, didn't you know? There's no need to spec. them. It would only cause trouble (for everyone else but you!)

Well I see many people running the red lights and when I have gust got through thinking boy that was close shave on them bastard red light cameras I look back and see some goose some ways behind me go through and I think have they ever been stung before or they just don't give a cracker.
I can not afford to be stung so I sure as hell try not to go through a red and I don not like people going through a red at all but boy the speed and red light cameras are not their for road safety at all, they are State revenue collectors, everybody knows that unless you is brainwashed by the Nazi type powers that be.
If the Gov were serious they would not fine you but take you on a Show ride, one that goes around and around spinning, boy I went one of them back in 1979, Never again ! I recon most criminals would be put straight that way and it would save the State billons a year.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

*They* say brakes are so good these days, red-light cameras should have you slamming them on rather than dashing through an orange light, otherwise - ping, your loss, one way or the other. Great, but in my last car I'm behind a new car, who's sleeping at the lights just gone green, they move forward and then slam on the brake when it turns yellow. I nearly hit them.

Why they tuned traffic lights to switch so quickly when no other cars were around can only be described as fraud!

I wrote to the police once (later on, with my highway trip back to the ACT from Vic. in my 2012 XR6T) going through the 60 zone Canberra city which is full of red light cameras. I had seen two flashes! One was it changing red, the next was it getting me for speeding because I pushed down on the accelerator a bit right at the end of the intersection. The fine wasn't for running a red light.

The day after I wrote to them about it, there was an article in the Canberra times about how good new cars are that you should slam on the brakes when you see them turn yellow. Nice one guys, you're such a pack of morons, public safety... let's put out a statement.

Now the zones in the city are all 40km/h. $$$'s!

2021 cars have super-brakes now, didn't you know? There's no need to spec. them. It would only cause trouble (for everyone else but you!)

I think a lot of people have experienced the red light camera/ speed camera.
you learn to be prepared to stop when you see the camera. we should all be doing that anyway when approaching intersections.

The instinct to speed up to beat the red light, is a bad one so I have no problems with the cameras being there.
40km in the city is there for pedestrian safety and to stop city congestion.

[Vesper Martini]

see stopping distance table, I like to think my cars and reactions would have me pull up a lot sooner than 26M when travelling at 40kph. but I guess these figures are on averages
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/saf...istances/graph

[M&Ms]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

see stopping distance table, I like to think my cars and reactions would have me pull up a lot sooner than 26M when travelling at 40kph. but I guess these figures are on averages
https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/saf...istances/graph

More BS spun by the QLD state government, what's new....

[mick taylor]

Originally Posted by M&Ms

More BS spun by the QLD state government, what's new....

Yes, I think reaction times are built in to Gov figures, well that could be anything, I do Ju Jitsu and some like me are real quick but some are so slow to react and old people to real old there is a huge difference, not to mention on the road I have seen people who can not see well for distance are totally hopeless in reacting not to mention don't know what to do really when it comes down to a real situation. I have seen it so many times, many are not taking note of around them or ahead much at all, or just tailgating like a idiot, had a girl friend who drove way to close behind cars and I was like a cat on a hot tin roof the whole time, I said you will not be able to stop if the car in front runs into another, she just did not get it. most don't get it.

Most people truly think speed kills, every K over is a killer their is a lot more to it all than some fascist statement dictated to all, that no one can challenge on points of facts, much like Covid Jab is nowadays taboo to all because of some idiots claims. so now all claims are taboo but for the Governments are totally gold.

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

I think a lot of people have experienced the red light camera/ speed camera.
you learn to be prepared to stop when you see the camera. we should all be doing that anyway when approaching intersections.

The instinct to speed up to beat the red light, is a bad one so I have no problems with the cameras being there.
40km in the city is there for pedestrian safety and to stop city congestion.

Right, but none of that describes my experience. My response to pushing on the accelerator was because of a bright flash from behind startling me, at the end of the intersection *****. That got them a 2nd flash and a fine for me. There wasn't enough time to get through once the decision was made not to slam on the brake which was the only other option, no regard to the poor sod behind me since at the time my car was new.

Do you think they have increased the amber light time by 50% now it takes that much longer to drive through the intersection? I don't think so.

Edit2: Oh, and "those" people who slow down approaching a green light because it might turn amber? Ha!

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

Right, but none of that describes my experience. My response to pushing on the accelerator was because of a bright flash from behind startling me, at the end of the intersection *****. That got them a 2nd flash and a fine for me. There wasn't enough time to get through once the decision was made not to slam on the brake which was the only other option, no regard to the poor sod behind me since at the time my car was new.

Do you think they have increased the amber light time by 50% now it takes that much longer to drive through the intersection? I don't think so.

Edit2: Oh, and "those" people who slow down approaching a green light because it might turn amber? Ha!

Maybe you need to start slowing down when you see Amber otherwise you will clock up a few more fines in your lifetime.

[Franco Cozzo]

Originally Posted by Vesper Martini

Maybe you need to start slowing down when you see Amber otherwise you will clock up a few more fines in your lifetime.

Melbourne driving guide:

Green - Go
Amber - Go faster
Red - Slow down, look for camera, look for other cars, then go.

[JasonACT]

.....

[Blue Dog]

Originally Posted by mick taylor

I remember looking at some car mags, one had a XB Falcon 250 and showing in the test back then was the stopping distance from 80km/h 50km/h. so why don't they state such nowadays ?

It would be interesting for me to have such information and not only that but also what other pad materials tested would prove.

The brakes on my car are stock still and they are as powerful as that if one sitting passenger did not have a seat belt on I am sure one could end up putting their head through the windscreen at 110km/h I even smashed the foot rest the first time I jumped on the brakes full on at 110km/h.

Now I have used many different brake pads over the years from stock types to HP types and I know that most people have no idea what such a difference such can do for braking performance. and I have not even started talking past just the pad material here yet.

So I first got a XG Falcon ute in 1993 and they had shocking brake performance with brake fade easy done they were so hopeless that from 210km/h cold they would get total brake fade by 60km/h if you went for it, so then I asked around what is the go with such rubbish brakes remember they are 4 wheel disc. but every brake specialist I talked to were all idiots they put in X and then I come back and say it's much the same rubbish, so then I picked a metal king as that was the top shelf that I could get hp pad from Bendix for the XG and wow I had great brakes now. then I got a 1995 VS Commodore and put the top shelf hp and boy they were much better again. I am sure that from 200km/h to stop with just such pads I could stop in the distance that a normal car could from 110km/h. but can anyone prove this is a fact or reasonable assumption.

But I have not seen any testing proving such, only rubbish like 120km/h or so over others , but the big difference is truly in the 200km/h story , so have a stock ABS ED Falcon say with std pads and all and then move up the ladder from their to prove the point of facts reality.

I have seen old test with motorbikes with braking test as well, even dirt bikes were tested.

Old magazine brake test figures are a general guide in this day & age.

If you want data on which brake components are more efficient then you'll require something like these:

http://www.vboxaustralia.com.au/performance-box.html

http://www.vboxaustralia.com.au/vbox-sport.html

https://www.vboxmotorsport.co.uk/ind...formancebox-us

[Charliewool]

Vic and I think NSW use this type of device for braking tests… (for RWC)
https://autotest.net.au/product/auto...i-brake-meter/

[Blue Dog]

Originally Posted by Charliewool

Vic and I think NSW use this type of device for braking tests… (for RWC)
https://autotest.net.au/product/auto...i-brake-meter/

VBOX Sport can now be used for Queensland Light Vehicle COI (CL) Inspections
VBOX Sport has been successfully used for some time now for Queensland Government, Department of Transport and Main Roads vehicle inspections.

In light of the recent changes to COI requirements, we are happy to say that the VBOX Sport meets all of these requirements and provides a simple interface to ensure that you capture all of the required data.