Roundabout Incident - Who is at Fault?

[FoxtrotGolfXray 5.0]

So, who is at fault?

Interested to see how many different opinions we get on this one.

[Mechan1k]

To me 4WD .... that left lane in that round about is straight through (to the left) only.
Although the sign says otherwise though.

BUT ... he crossed a SOLID centre line (which is poorly marked I might add ... as it shouldn't be there)

It's the back of the Ingleburn Industrial area from memory.

Mind you though ... if I wanted to take the 2nd exit through that round about .... I wouldn't be using the lane the 4WD was using. Due to commonsense and safety reasons.
You can see from the speed that the 4WD entered .. the drive was on a mission and trying to prove a point ... just to post that video.

I didn't vote on the options ... I would place it down to poor road planning and signage being the fault here.

[aussiblue]

4WD .... that left lane in that round about is straight through only.

That's what I though at first but the lane they are exiting is the first lane after they entered not the second; so bear that in mind while looking at the directional arrows when they entered the roundabout. Bound to confuse drivers though.

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by aussiblue

That's what I though at first but the lane they are exiting is the first lane after they entered not the second; so bear that in mind while looking at the directional arrows when they entered the roundabout. Bound to confuse drivers though.

I edited my post a few times.

it's a dodgy roundabout (in a dodgy area) to begin with.

[snap0964]

This is my favourite (the sign clears a few things up ?):

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by snap0964

This is my favourite (the sign clears a few things up ?):

image

A lot of people still go that one wrong as well.
But definitely better signed.

[roKWiz]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

So, who is at fault?

Interested to see how many different opinions we get on this one.

I would like to see the clip but for some reason my computer doesn't show it. Got a regular link.

[Crazy Dazz]

My first inclination is to blame the cam owner for his terrible music.

After that, you really can lay the blame with the road engineers for their poor signage.
The Red car is clearly at fault, but you can understand where the confusion lies.

The operation of the roundabout appears to be standard, and the signage reflects that, however the oblique angle of the roads makes it confusing.
The Cam car is in the left lane and is permitted to take the first exit left, or carry on straight (taking the 2nd exit) and is apparently doing the latter.
The Red car is in the right lane, and is therefore only permitted to go straight (2nd exit) or "right" (3rd exit) but instead tries to take the 1st exit.
They might have thought they were going "straight", when in fact they were taking the cross-road exit, at maybe 135 degrees.

[roKWiz]

Uh found it, I reckon red car in right lane should be veering (right) which is straight on as his lane markings clearly show he can not veer or turn left at that exit.
4x4 can turn left or veer straight on as his lane marking clearly show IMO.
However road marking are confusing because of the approach. note the road sign in green just before the entrance to the roundabout.

[FairmontGS]

Originally Posted by psychobimbo

So, who is at fault?

The idiot who painted the arrows...

[simon varley]

at 14 secs it is 100% clear from the marking on the road that the RH lane is for straight ahead and right turn only. Repeated at 16 s. Red car should also signal, which it doesn't look like it is doing. However Mr 4WD is a dick.

[cs123]

The left lane has arrows for turning left and straight ahead.
The right lane has arrows for straight ahead turning right

However, the first left turn is pretty straight and that is confusing.



The exit has 2 lanes and also seems to be marked for 2 lanes to exit



So all up I think the roundabout is marked incorrectly..... The arrows are misleading as the arrow implies you can go straight from either lane and the road looks straight, it has 2 lanes to exit (and in that case the red car has right of way) but the left lane is the only one allowed that exit according to the arrows.

So the red car is at fault....but the roundabout is a mess....

[JasonACT]

Originally Posted by cs123

The left lane has arrows for turning left and straight ahead.
The right lane has arrows for straight ahead turning right

However, the first left turn is pretty straight and that is confusing.

image

The exit has 2 lanes and also seems to be marked for 2 lanes to exit

image

So all up I think the roundabout is marked incorrectly..... The arrows are misleading as the arrow implies you can go straight from either lane and the road looks straight, it has 2 lanes to exit (and in that case the red car has right of way) but the left lane is the only one allowed that exit according to the arrows.

So the red car is at fault....but the roundabout is a mess....

In my mind, there are two straight roads intersecting here, and roundabouts generally don't require you to be in any particular lane to stay on the same street.

[EgoFG]

I voted for the cam car at fault, as I thought the exit that the red car took was a "straight ahead" exit. And I guess that there were bogus markings on the entry, indicating a left that was not there.
But on seeing the sign it is obvious that the last exit less than 180 degrees is when the Cam car planned to exit. The red car was turning left, and in the wrong lane.


Interestingly, if the red car had actually entered on a prior entrance(having come from Ingleburn), the cam car would have been at fault (traffic already in roundabout).




Actually we should have known - the red car always has to give way !

[Giant Cranium]

red car at fault, his lane says straight or right so that means second and third exit, he punched it left which is the first exit

[aussiblue]

The 4WD cam car might also have been so high off the ground to obscure the view to the left and it may have assumed it had past a left entrance. The continuing lane dividing lines on the exit don't help as the create an impression that both lanes exit there and should be removed and instead a painted island painted across the centre lane exit there. Bad road engineering by NSW road.

[marty351]

Cam car clearly at fault. Regardless of road markings or signage, cam car changes lanes without due care. Had he obeyed the left lane and stayed within it, no accident would have occurred.

[BENT_8]

Red car is clearly at fault as the only lane you can exit the first exit on a roundabout from is the left lane.
If you stop the video back where you can see the green sign you can see that it is not a regular roundabout but the road signage clearly designates what can be performed and from what lane.
Both of these are visible to traffic and must be considered when on approach.

Those that suggest the short solid white line at the exit somehow shifts blame to the cam car are incorrect as it is just a lane divider poorly applied, the signage is what matters.

The bigger issue is that 34% of the votes at the time of posting this are incorrect, you can see how it happens...

[Crazy Dazz]

Originally Posted by marty351

Cam car clearly at fault. Regardless of road markings or signage, cam car changes lanes without due care.

No, no he doesn't.
It's a roundabout, the lanes curve.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by Crazy Dazz

No, no he doesn't.
It's a roundabout, the lanes curve.

You are correct. Two lanes curve simultaneously before, during and after the roundabout, and clear as day, cam car crosses into the right lane.

[DJR-351]

Red car at fault but it's a ****fully signed roundabout....

[Ben73]

Originally Posted by marty351

Cam car clearly at fault. Regardless of road markings or signage, cam car changes lanes without due care. Had he obeyed the left lane and stayed within it, no accident would have occurred.

Road markings and signage make up 99% of the road rules, how can you say they don't apply?

Originally Posted by marty351

(you're not allowed to change lanes in an intersection)

I'm pretty sure you can change lanes in an intersection as long as you obey all regular rules for changing lanes.

Originally Posted by Adamz Ghia

He didn’t give way to those already in the lane before he merged, I can’t see how the cam car isn’t at fault?

Cam car didn't merge, he was obeying the signs before the roundabout. Red car wasn't.

Originally Posted by marty351

25 years of driving, 1 at fault accident (minor), owning a v8 for 6 years and never lost a demerit point.
Yeah, nah, I'll keep my license and stick to the lane I'm driving in.

That reminds me of the joke
"Been driving for X years and never been in an accident. Seen hundred in my rear view mirror though"

Originally Posted by JC

I initially voted cam car, but after watching the video, I’d say 50/50. It actually doesn’t matter what the signs or road markings say, every driver has an onus to avoid a collision and neither driver did that in this case.

You should avoid crashes if you can, that's why in these badly designed road situations I always assume everyone else is brain dead and will screw it up.
But to cause a crash only 1 car has to break the road rules. So they are at fault. In this video it's the red car.

Originally Posted by Bevsta007

Yep IMO he could have easily let the red car go first and wouldn't have been held up at all..

How? Was he supposed to be a mind reader and know the red car wanted to break the road rules? Red car never indicated left from what we see. If they did we could assume they're stupid and wanted to break the rules, but if they don't indicate their rule breaking intentions how would anyone else know?

It's pretty easy to pass judgment when watching a video when we know there is about to be a crash. Especially when we watch the video multiple times. Not the same as driving down the road.

[Vesper Martini]

Originally Posted by Ben73

You should avoid crashes if you can, that's why in these badly designed road situations I always assume everyone else is brain dead and will screw it up.
But to cause a crash only 1 car has to break the road rules. So they are at fault. In this video it's the red car.

Agreed, that's what I'm saying avoid crashes if you can.

Originally Posted by Ben73

How? Was he supposed to be a mind reader and know the red car wanted to break the road rules? Red car never indicated left from what we see. If they did we could assume they're stupid and wanted to break the rules, but if they don't indicate their rule breaking intentions how would anyone else know?

No mind reading just need to look at the angle the red car is taking the round about. there's plenty of road the left to swerve too

Look if you guys cant see that no need to get defensive most drivers wouldn't.

PS doesn't change that the Red car is at fault

[xeeclipse]

I refuse to look at these half baked legislative drawings, we don't have any such roundabouts in Melbourne's metro area.

Markings changing mid roundabout???? Humans aren't cats FFS.

[JasonACT]

So cam car can't go "straight" through the roundabout in the left hand lane? (What he was trying to do.)

[Mechan1k]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

So cam car can't go "straight" through the roundabout in the left hand lane? (What he was trying to do.)

Well.

Have a closer look ... due to the line marking in the roundabout.
He crossed a solid line .... implying ... you can't really actually go "straight ahead" on an angle to the 2nd exit.

[aussiblue]

So cam car can't go "straight" through the roundabout in the left hand lane? (What he was trying to do.)

Yes; as it the first left and look at the arrows on the road when the enter the roundabout.

[JasonACT]

I agree, he wasn't changing lanes without due care. He was just staying in his lane. Same thing happened to me in QLD (Gold Coast, Robina shopping centre) but I was pretty quick on the wheel and brake to avoid the other car.

Edited: Just to add, the reason there's two lanes on the exit in question is for people entering the roundabout before the entrance Cam & Red entered.

[marty351]

Originally Posted by JasonACT

I agree, he wasn't changing lanes without due care. He was just staying in his lane. Same thing happened to me in QLD (Gold Coast, Robina shopping centre) but I was pretty quick on the wheel and brake to avoid the other car.

Not wanting to get into a slinging match, but cam car clearly crosses into the right lane before fully exiting the roundabout and collides with the red car who was in the right lane the whole time. Had cam car followed basic road rules an kept left, he would then have merged right as the left lane ends to form a single lane.

[Adamz Ghia]

He didn’t give way to those already in the lane before he merged, I can’t see how the cam car isn’t at fault?