How the wheels came off Ford

EBSXR6 · 03-09-2018, 01:18 AM

Read an article on The Australian website about Fords problems in Europe.
The article was from the Times UK.

Ford has too much capacity in Europe, fixed cost base too high, making cars in Germany which is the most expensive country in Europe to make cars.

Ford has lost work that it did for Jaguar and Volvo.Cheap finance deals have enabled the Mondeo buyers into a Benz, etc. 2001 in the UK Ford had 19.2% of the market, last year it was 11.2%. Audi, BMW and Mercedes each now have over 6% of the UK market.

Part of its problem is that Ford forgot to make cars people wanted to buy.
Too late on the SUV bandwagon.

Too many showrooms and dealers in the UK.

Ford has two large engine plants in the UK, Brexit with possible tariffs and diesel in freefall the future does not look good.

The options appear large scale redundancies or follow the General and offload the European arm if a buyer can be found.

mike_nofx · 03-09-2018, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Part of its problem is that Ford forgot to make cars people wanted to buy.

I think thats the whole problem. Worldwide, Ford has 3 desirable vehicles in its entire range, the Mustang, F Trucks and the Ranger.

Too bad if you're an Australian who doesn't want a 2 door car, or a Thailand tractor.

Vormund · 03-09-2018, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Ford has too much capacity in Europe, fixed cost base too high, making cars in Germany which is the most expensive country in Europe to make cars.

Ford has lost work that it did for Jaguar and Volvo.

Ford has two large engine plants in the UK, Brexit with possible tariffs and diesel in freefall the future does not look good.

My Volvo S60 is made in Belgium. So if they kept Volvo they theoretically could have shifted some Ford production there.

I think dismantling the PAG was a mistake honestly... all they have is Lincoln now and that's restricted to North America. And look at Volvo now...I think it's the fastest growing luxury car brand...

Wretched · 03-09-2018, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vormund

My Volvo S60 is made in Belgium. So if they kept Volvo they theoretically could have shifted some Ford production there.

I think dismantling the PAG was a mistake honestly... all they have is Lincoln now and that's restricted to North America. And look at Volvo now...I think it's the fastest growing luxury car brand...

While I do agree somewhat, Ford really did a poor job managing Volvo. Their cars now are a result of the "freedom" from Ford.

Vormund · 03-09-2018, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

While I do agree somewhat, Ford really did a poor job managing Volvo. Their cars now are a result of the "freedom" from Ford.

Funny you mention that, originally I had typed something to that effect but decided to delete it.

They are doing well since they are getting great resources and support. On the flipside look what happened to SAAB.

danzvtil · 03-09-2018, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vormund

Funny you mention that, originally I had typed something to that effect but decided to delete it.

They are doing well since they are getting great resources and support. On the flipside look what happened to SAAB.

Saab and Volvo were handled with contempt when owned by GM and Ford respectively, they were seen as an add on to the volume of the US market, and allowed to whither on the vine.
Volvo now has got to be one of the best looking cars around next to a RR Evoque, Indian and Chinese owners now have deep pockets and lofty ambitions.

**DFB FGXR6** · 03-09-2018, 07:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wretched

While I do agree somewhat, Ford really did a poor job managing Volvo. Their cars now are a result of the "freedom" from Ford.

And Jaguar. And Aston Martin.

Ford management just couldn't grapple with the idea of spending money to make money. Half hearted re-skining of of Ford products just wasn't going to work and customers could tell. Once those brands were sold and the new owners invested in development of genuinely premium models, buyers came back.

Now Ford lack a premium brand in which to generate high profits. Also, they are losing sales once a customer wants to step up to a luxury brand. Offering a premium "Vignale"trim level on several models is a waste of time because it lacks the premium badge cred.

Ford could have made a killing with Jaguar and LandRover if it had just stuck with it and spent the money. Instead the mass-market, Detroit management style prevailed.

prydey · 03-09-2018, 10:11 PM

Ford offloaded their premium brands so they could stay afloat during the GFC without having to be bailed out by the govt.

They are still one of the top 10 most valuable auto makers in the world.

I wouldn't say the wheels have fallen off.

vztrt · 03-09-2018, 10:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Ford offloaded their premium brands so they could stay afloat during the GFC without having to be bailed out by the govt.

They are still one of the top 10 most valuable auto makers in the world.

I wouldn't say the wheels have fallen off.

The share holders will say if it has or hasn't. The shares are close to junk. Very poor management by Ford post Mullaly.

b0son · 03-09-2018, 11:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Ford offloaded their premium brands so they could stay afloat during the GFC without having to be bailed out by the govt.

Ford had already made plans to divest itself of PAG before the GFC. The reality was that under Ford, that group of companies were not exactly flourishing, and most have done better since leaving.

mr smith · 05-09-2018, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

Ford offloaded their premium brands so they could stay afloat during the GFC without having to be bailed out by the govt.

They are still one of the top 10 most valuable auto makers in the world.

I wouldn't say the wheels have fallen off.

Not true, they needed to stay afloat to ensure the Ford family stayed in control, a bailout would have seen the end of that. They have a different class of share that ensures they remain running the show.

simon varley · 03-09-2018, 12:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by EBSXR6

Cheap finance deals

this. everything is secondary to this issue. Making cars 'cheaper' has allowed customers to upspec and taken away Ford's 'working man' market. when your average worker can now afford what was previously a luxury marque then you need to change your focus to either match that luxury, or to go for a base entry model. Ford has done neither of those things. the change of focus to trucks and sports cars has basically thrown the passenger car market away, and they can't compete in any of the SUV segments.

roKWiz · 03-09-2018, 03:23 PM

Just MPO, Ford and GM had started to good down hill back in the mid 90's with the end of their truck divisions which kept them alive due to a global slump in car sales.
Both GM and Ford up until the late 90's had a vast array of light, medium, heavy duty range of commercial vehicles which were all reasonable sellers. This is where I believe they made most of their profits. The biggest commercial Ford (AU EU) now available is the Transit.

Fast forward to now and the car industry has been stagnating for awhile while some of the other car manufacturers who kept building trucks ie IVECO (International Harvester), Volvo/Mack, Mercedes as have the other heavies Scania, Isuzu, Hino, UD, Kenworth have always sold well.

Venomous1 · 03-09-2018, 05:22 PM

It's Like they forgot about there customers and the customers are now doing the same. This forum activity is proof of how bad it is I have no desire in any of there vehicles (New Ones) except mustang which sounds like by 2021 i wont be interested in either.

It's Sad.

Syndrome · 03-09-2018, 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Venomous1

It's Like they forgot about there customers and the customers are now doing the same. This forum activity is proof of how bad it is I have no desire in any of there vehicles (New Ones) except mustang which sounds like by 2021 i wont be interested in either.

It's Sad.

They burnt their loyal buyers - I have no desire to buy any Ford badged vehicles. But I won't shed any tears for them.

SpoolMan · 04-09-2018, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

They burnt their loyal buyers - I have no desire to buy any Ford badged vehicles. But I won't shed any tears for them.

Its a shame so many loyal Falcon fans didn't buy a new one when they were sitting in dealerships looking for new homes.
(that's a Fail)

Venomous1 · 04-09-2018, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Its a shame so many loyal Falcon fans didn't buy a new one when they were sitting in dealerships looking for new homes.
(that's a Fail)

Very True Snapped up a FG in 2011 and a XR8 in 2015 when the closure was announced.

Be Interesting to see if we get to have and exciting Mustang in times to come as for now they are nailing it.

Syndrome · 04-09-2018, 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Its a shame so many loyal Falcon fans didn't buy a new one when they were sitting in dealerships looking for new homes.
(that's a Fail)

You must have missed this thread.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showth...ight=purchased

SpoolMan · 05-09-2018, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Syndrome

You must have missed this thread.

https://www.fordforums.com.au/showth...ight=purchased

Nope I seen it, its about the constant Ford negativity from many, for business to work in this world the product has to be purchased.
We all loved our Falcons there gone now, I thought my BF F6 was the best car ever until I drove a GT mustang.

mike_nofx · 04-09-2018, 06:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpoolMan

Its a shame so many loyal Falcon fans didn't buy a new one when they were sitting in dealerships looking for new homes.
(that's a Fail)

I only WISH I could buy a brand new car.

As a Falcon AND Commodore fan it pains me to see brand new VF2 SS and HSV models still sitting there, if I didn't have a house to renovate I'd buy one for sure, but sadly a roof over my head is more important than a new car.

Though I doubt its as simple as you are implying - that if more people bought brand new Falcons they'd still exist. I think even if Falcon sold in 2 or 3 times the numbers, that One Ford would still have put an end to the Falcon.
We can also blame the elected government members who cut funding to the auto industry, or took no interest in trying to preserve the auto industry.

jpd80 · 03-09-2018, 06:46 PM

Look at North America versus every other Ford region and the big difference is F Series sales.
Every other area's vehicles struggle to cover their development costs let alone make a profit.

Maybe the key for Australia is to sell, Ranger, Mustang, F150, F250, Explorer, Expedition and forget the rest.

Brazen · 03-09-2018, 11:49 PM

One Ford was a disaster, building the same car everywhere, so trying to appease so many different markets and tastes and in the end satisfying no one.

I knew it was the end when the Fusion and Mondeo became the same car - totally different buyer profiles, now it looks like both will die.

I honestly think they will be fine though, they have great EV and hybrid technology and actually build some desirable product like Mustang and F Series.

Still cannot believe they dumped Volvo, Jaguar, Land Rover/Range Rover. Once in a generation chance to own high value brands. Now they will spend forever slugging it out for the low profit crumbs like other car makers.

GT450 · 04-09-2018, 09:50 AM

There are a few more manufacturers out there doing a lot worse than Ford , but as usual there are many on here willing to sink the boot in even though they enjoy the products they make. Ford may not be on top at the moment but they are resilient and will be around for a while yet.
GT450

simon varley · 04-09-2018, 06:31 PM

the future isn't really internal combustion engines anyway. we are in a transition period now to EV and fully autonomous, and there will be a lot of pain and suffering on the way for all the companies. those that come out on top may well not be the conventional car makers we have come to know and love (and hate)

mr smith · 05-09-2018, 09:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by simon varley

the future isn't really internal combustion engines anyway. we are in a transition period now to EV and fully autonomous, and there will be a lot of pain and suffering on the way for all the companies. those that come out on top may well not be the conventional car makers we have come to know and love (and hate)

Full autonomous wont happen..why would we want more cars on the roads with no one in them? Its our generation of the flying car.

Paul22 · 04-09-2018, 06:32 PM

They forgot one basic element: the customer. They have not asked the customer what they want. They have insisted on a 'one size fits all' rather than refining the car to a particular market (headlight sufficiency for Australian conditions for e.g.). They shun contact from their customers. They treat customers with genuine warranty complaints with disdain and argue when you press the point (Focus, Festiva autos as another example). They have not engendered any customer loyalty at all. Ford Motor Co are not the only company that ignores the customer at their peril as there are plenty of other companies that do so as well such as the banks and even Myer (it takes longer to find a sales person than it does to find the product there!)
And so that's my two bobs worth: ignore the customer and the customer will respond accordingly.

Sprintey · 04-09-2018, 07:01 PM

I hear ya Mike, house extension was the 2nd new Territory, oh well. First one still going strong. There's still near new FGX out in the yards...

Good point Simon about cheap finance enabling the Mercification of so many people, interest rates overseas are rising now so the punch bowl is beginning to be pulled. And we will see who's swimming with no trunks.

And those bonds:

https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...es-bond-market

wonder if Ford Execs saw this coming and have cut NA passenger models in anticipation?

prydey · 04-09-2018, 07:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul22

(headlight sufficiency for Australian conditions for e.g.). .

I always smile when I see these types of comments. What are Australian conditions?

Nearly every other mainstream auto maker builds global cars on global platforms. It's the only way to efficiently amortise the cost of developing, designing and building cars.

mike_nofx · 04-09-2018, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prydey

I always smile when I see these types of comments. What are Australian conditions?

Nearly every other mainstream auto maker builds global cars on global platforms. It's the only way to efficiently amortise the cost of developing, designing and building cars.

Yeah I agree here. Australian conditions with regards to headlights should be much better than other countries. We don’t have as much snow or fog to deal with. Sure we have big open roads, but use high beam for that.

simon varley · 05-09-2018, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_nofx

Yeah I agree here. Australian conditions with regards to headlights should be much better than other countries. We don’t have as much snow or fog to deal with. Sure we have big open roads, but use high beam for that.

so that explains why so many people only need to use one headlight these days.